Little question about Jag and Wrench

[Stainroll]

So, i was always using Jag because i thought that it builds sentry faster.

 

There is wrote 30% faster construction rate

 

But when i look to Damage and function times in wiki, it's the same that Wrench.

 

So, does it really builds faster that Wrench?

[GenoPsydE]

Just use the Rancho Relaxo taunt and don't worry about it.

[Zcrab]

Your building's will only build faster if you hit them with the wrench, if you don't then just use stock wrench, or Southern Hospitality wich is what I use.

[Chocolate]

Gunslinger pls

[Stainroll]

Your building's will only build faster if you hit them with the wrench, if you don't then just use stock wrench, or Southern Hospitality wich is what I use.

what? you mean Jag doesn't upgrade buildings faster?

[Stainroll]

Gunslinger pls

I usually use it

[Mossy]

You have to be hitting the building with the jag while it's going up to get the increased building speed.

Even then, it makes very little difference and the loss in damage isn't worth it at all.

[The Phantom]

... I like the jag...

[Stainroll]

You have to be hitting the building with the jag while it's going up to get the increased building speed.

Even then, it makes very little difference and the loss in damage isn't worth it at all.

Thanks, wanted answer like this

[Curly Brace]

Last I heard the Jag is actually somewhat glitched, where it only upgrades buildings at somewhere around 10% instead of 30%, so it makes it worth it a lot less anyways.  Sentries build fast enough by themselves anyways.  Now if the jag actually built buildings and upgraded at 30% {33 metal per swing instead of 25} you would see it used a whole lot more in place of the stock wrench.

[3.50]

You have to be hitting the building with the jag while it's going up to get the increased building speed.

It helps tremendously to get buildings up and working more quickly.

FTFY

You also can't Jagwhack with any other wrench

[Mossy]

FTFY

You also can't Jagwhack with any other wrench

If you hit a dispenser as it's building with another wrench, it will build faster.

The jag only increases that by a second or two.

It really isn't worth it.

[Ixenzo]

The Jag's 30% increase in construction rate adds onto the 90% increase in construction rate that is applied when hitting a building with the stock Wrench, so hitting a building with the Jag increases the building's construction rate by 120%. As a result, the construction rate of any building being hit by the Jag is only increased by 15.79%, not 30%

 

 

In most cases it's less than a second. Use SH or spam minis. In MvM use only stock wrench.

[SilverSpeed]

The Jag makes each building take one less whack to build up.

 

It really isn't worth the time in my opinion.

 

SH all the way.

[Hugeisno1]

It's real value comes in when you have long range solly spam. It's just fast enough to keep your buildings up.

[The G What ™]

Platinum Engineer and Youtube sensation Sigafoo breaks it down.

 

And side by side look.

 

Jag is worthless. 

[Tanner the Original Scout™]

To my knowledge, it only builds like 15% faster, so 120% faster construction rate than without hitting it.

[3.50]

The one thing that the Jag does that makes it worthwhile is that it increases re-deployment speed of buildings. So, if you plan on setting up and then moving your buildings, it gets faster build time + faster re-deploy time, noticeably minimizes your downtime when moving up/falling back, and actually becomes a reasonably attractive option. Probably more useful in Payload and CP than in CTF; it's not intended for turtling, and doesn't work terribly well for that sort of behavior.

 

As for the downside...meh. How often do you really need to melee anyone, besides maybe spies? And -one- teammate helping you spycheck makes a much bigger difference than which wrench you're using--after all, ambush/stab-n-sap works equally well against all wrenches, and a competent spy won't stand still and take wrenches to the face anyway. Also, not even the Southern Hospitality is a reliable way to track down DR spies--triggering the DR stops bleeding, so you have to hit them again after they trigger it, or else they get away scot-free.

 

In conclusion: the Jag's upside isn't huge, but it's distinct, useful, and will make a noticeably difference if you're moving buildings around, and its downside is irrelevant if your team's teamwork is better than 3/10.

 

So, to all you non-Jag-whackers out there: keep ignoring the Jag if you like, but you're only hurting yourself :3

[Ixenzo]

-//-

 

25% ain't much? If you're extremely unlucky, you'll be able to kill a regular full-health spy with only 4th punch. 41 x 3 = 123. These 0.75 seconds make almost no difference. -25% dmg does. If you want to spam sentries, equip the gunslinger.

And yeah, the gunslinger. Why the hell does this wre... arm thingie add health? And 100% crits after two punches? And doesn't have a real downside? The question.

[3.50]

25% ain't much? If you're extremely unlucky, you'll be able to kill a regular full-health spy with only 4th punch. 41 x 3 = 123. These 0.75 seconds make almost no difference. -25% dmg does. If you want to spam sentries, equip the gunslinger.

And yeah, the gunslinger. Why the hell does this wre... arm thingie add health? And 100% crits after two punches? And doesn't have a real downside? The question.

25% is not too severe, because engineer isn't a class that tends to melee other players a lot. Plus, shotgun and even pistol, to say nothing of your sentry, do enough damage that you don't need to rely on your melee to protect yourself...to say nothing of the teammates that you should have. If you find yourself engaged in melee combat more than occasionally, you might be doing it wrong, or you might simply have an awful team, in which case you're boned no matter what wrench you use.

 

Jag is useful on PL/CP maps when you use it correctly...it's not about spamming sentries; it's about constructing and moving support networks faster. By the time you've built one sentry (saved a bit of time), one dispenser (saved some time here, too), one teleporter entrance and exit (saved time here also), and moved three of them up (saved even more time due to re-deploying faster)...the amount of time you've saved starts to really add up. And it's not just time you save--a teleporter up three seconds faster is a demo at the front lines three seconds faster. Which means other team dead three seconds faster, which gives your team even more time and space...It's a domino effect that can be severely underrated. However, you kind of have to be playing in a useful and non-turtling fashion to notice a difference, so there's that. Maybe you just like to sit in your nest and wait for spies, in which case the Jag isn't for you

 

But by all means, use stock, the S.H., or Gunslinger if you want to run around whacking peoples' faces on CTF maps; the Jag is clearly not the best for that.