Bills

[Triforce of Charmanders]

Long is Long, he won't change even with warnings and all, he feeds on his hatred, i think he is emo or maybe as you said a 12 years old facebook girl user.

Ya, im saying by the end of the year he'll get perma-banned the way he is acting. I think it'll be better off for the site if he does. He brings to much hatred here. 

 

I was just pissed off at people being mean and all, people will never grow up. Sowwie about that

Ya, i know. When i made a key suggestion, for about an hour i though about changing my name to "Triforce of UMad?".But i stopped myself, as i did not want to look childish.

 

As long as you learn from your mistakes, you'll be fine (just don't repeat them).

[F CHARLIE]

It is, but i am free, got 3 months of summer vacation, war in my home country so i won't travel, so what I do ? I keep suggesting more bill's hat changes, seems like a plan huh ?

First: Where are you from?

Second: You should try to find trades where Bills are used as currency to buy something instead of sold for keys. Trade.tf has consistantly shown Bills below 8 and they measure item to item trades.

[Karam]

First: Where are you from?

Second: You should try to find trades where Bills are used as currency to buy something instead of sold for keys. Trade.tf has consistantly shown Bills below 8 and they measure item to item trades.

 

I am from Syria

 

And yes, after i finish my exams next week, i am going to try and get every single tiny bit assosiated with bill's

Quoting vincent "If Bill's is indeed dropping, save a price change for when it has done so to a substantial degree. Because until that point comes, 8 keys flat works just as well as 7.8-8 for a price guide." So as of that, I will give it a week, then I will go and fetch as many results as I can.

 

[F CHARLIE]

I am from Syria

 

And yes, after i finish my exams next week, i am going to try and get every single tiny bit assosiated with bill's

Quoting vincent "If Bill's is indeed dropping, save a price change for when it has done so to a substantial degree. Because until that point comes, 8 keys flat works just as well as 7.8-8 for a price guide." So as of that, I will give it a week, then I will go and fetch as many results as I can.

 

Trade.tf has it at 7.6 - 7.8 now. That represents a fairly significant change and it is trending down. I think it might be important to take on a mindset of convincing people that it is trending down. Older trades to newer ones. I don't know if anything will help desuede the anger tho. Good luck.

 

Keep urself safe man.

[Karam]

Trade.tf has it at 7.6 - 7.8 now. That represents a fairly significant change and it is trending down. I think it might be important to take on a mindset of convincing people that it is trending down. Older trades to newer ones. I don't know if anything will help desuede the anger tho. Good luck.

 

Keep urself safe man.

 

Cheers man, really apprecaite it, also, i think i will make a video to express my self and tell my message to the backpack community if i decided to make another bil''s suggestion.

[Swag Inc]

One thing that's startling about the bill's is that people say painted ones can't be used as proof. Probably 90% of the bills are painted so how to prove anything? It's virtually impossible if painted ones can't be used.

 

7.8 to 8 keys is 1 refined difference, to some it's small, to others it's a lot.

 

 

I don't think there's a need to spam suggestions, if people and mods don't want to accept a price of 7.8 (whether it's real or not), making more suggestions will not change that fact. So use that to your advantage, buy bills cheap and resell them higher using bp.tf reported price to back up your selling price.

[Distinctively Vincent]

The issue with painted is that it's basing off Bill's former overinflated paint values. Every other hat in the game, you can expect to get 50% of paint value on a prepainted hat, more often than not less. Bill's was constantly using near 100%, with an extra key on top for TS Paint and an extra two keys on top for black/white paint. Lately it's been more difficult to get that amount, but that is not indicative of the standard Bill's falling. That's just an indication of paint on Bill's finally catching up with the rest of the market.

 

So, no, Black/White Bill's unsolds at 10 keys should not be used as proof for 7.8-8 keys, nor should available 9 key Black/White Bill's be used as 'selling under current price'. If there are regularly available Black/White/TS Bill's at 8 keys, then there's something to talk about.

[KingOfHeart]

Next time, do not use any paints for suggestions.

 A pink bills for 8 keys does not prove your 7.8-8 key suggestion for example.

 

A black/white Bills for 8 keys might though, but doubt it.

[Karam]

The issue with painted is that it's basing off Bill's former overinflated paint values. Every other hat in the game, you can expect to get 50% of paint value on a prepainted hat, more often than not less. Bill's was constantly using near 100%, with an extra key on top for TS Paint and an extra two keys on top for black/white paint. Lately it's been more difficult to get that amount, but that is not indicative of the standard Bill's falling. That's just an indication of paint on Bill's finally catching up with the rest of the market.

 

So, no, Black/White Bill's unsolds at 10 keys should not be used as proof for 7.8-8 keys, nor should available 9 key Black/White Bill's be used as 'selling under current price'. If there are regularly available Black/White/TS Bill's at 8 keys, then there's something to talk about.

 

 

Allright, will totally take into consideration next time, also, will give it some time for people to calm down a bit, don't want another flame war.

 

[Karam]

Next time, do not use any paints for suggestions.

 A pink bills for 8 keys does not prove your 7.8-8 key suggestion for example.

 

A black/white Bills for 8 keys might though, but doubt it.

 

 

I think high-tier paints do count if they are selling for 8 keys

[Karam]

The issue with painted is that it's basing off Bill's former overinflated paint values. Every other hat in the game, you can expect to get 50% of paint value on a prepainted hat, more often than not less. Bill's was constantly using near 100%, with an extra key on top for TS Paint and an extra two keys on top for black/white paint. Lately it's been more difficult to get that amount, but that is not indicative of the standard Bill's falling. That's just an indication of paint on Bill's finally catching up with the rest of the market.

 

So, no, Black/White Bill's unsolds at 10 keys should not be used as proof for 7.8-8 keys, nor should available 9 key Black/White Bill's be used as 'selling under current price'. If there are regularly available Black/White/TS Bill's at 8 keys, then there's something to talk about.

 

 

Also, are the buyers that are successful for under 8 count ? or are they "quickbuyers" , as long as people agree to sell it for that price i think it is allright to use it

[Swag Inc]

The issue with painted is that it's basing off Bill's former overinflated paint values. Every other hat in the game, you can expect to get 50% of paint value on a prepainted hat, more often than not less. Bill's was constantly using near 100%, with an extra key on top for TS Paint and an extra two keys on top for black/white paint. Lately it's been more difficult to get that amount, but that is not indicative of the standard Bill's falling. That's just an indication of paint on Bill's finally catching up with the rest of the market.

 

So, no, Black/White Bill's unsolds at 10 keys should not be used as proof for 7.8-8 keys, nor should available 9 key Black/White Bill's be used as 'selling under current price'. If there are regularly available Black/White/TS Bill's at 8 keys, then there's something to talk about.

Any plans for bp.tf to update how paint is computed as a bonus for hats ?

Because as of now it's reported at 85% paint value as a bonus limited at 2 times the hat price.

[F CHARLIE]

Any plans for bp.tf to update how paint is computed as a bonus for hats ?

Because as of now it's reported at 85% paint value as a bonus limited at 2 times the hat price.

 

Brad had a poll out a little while ago where the popular opinion was to change it to 50% of paint original value and 2x max item original value.

 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/170-in-your-opinion-what-is-the-most-representative-way-of-calculating-paint-value/?hl=paint

[Swag Inc]

Brad had a poll out a little while ago where the popular opinion was to change it to 50% of paint original value and 2x max item original value.

 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/170-in-your-opinion-what-is-the-most-representative-way-of-calculating-paint-value/?hl=paint

Thanks for the link, it was started in february as I see. Any timeframe for change to take place or are things set to remain as they are?

[Distinctively Vincent]

Also, are the buyers that are successful for under 8 count ? or are they "quickbuyers" , as long as people agree to sell it for that price i think it is allright to use it

 

Buyers are okay to use, but the majority focus should be on sellers. It's where the bulk of trades occur.

[F CHARLIE]

Cheers man, really apprecaite it, also, i think i will make a video to express my self and tell my message to the backpack community if i decided to make another bil''s suggestion.

 

I would advise against a video.  It makes it seem like you have something personal against the Bills hat and that will harm the suggestion more than help.  Just pre-write your message on word before hand so you can communicate what you are trying to say than paste it.

[F CHARLIE]

Thanks for the link, it was started in february as I see. Any timeframe for change to take place or are things set to remain as they are?

 

Only Brad can answer that.  He never set a time frame.

[F CHARLIE]

Also, are the buyers that are successful for under 8 count ? or are they "quickbuyers" , as long as people agree to sell it for that price i think it is allright to use it

Here lies part of the problem. For most items a quicksel price is significantly lower10 - 30% but many people complain that even as little as 2% lower price is a quicksell. This creates an impossible situation as it would never allow for a price change.

[Karam]

I would advise against a video.  It makes it seem like you have something personal against the Bills hat and that will harm the suggestion more than help.  Just pre-write your message on word before hand so you can communicate what you are trying to say than paste it.

 

i really didn't decide on that yet, i will not talk about only bill's in particular, i will talk about trading in general, that is my idea, i will communicate with vincent first tho.

[Swag Inc]

i really didn't decide on that yet, i will not talk about only bill's in particular, i will talk about trading in general, that is my idea, i will communicate with vincent first tho.

 

Concerning the argument on paint, I ran some computations to find the value of paint when applied to an item, that may help you in future suggestions:

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1f3kgq/the_top_10_best_paints_according_to_science/

[Baloo]

Concerning the argument on paint, I ran somqwe computations to find the value of paint when applied to an item, that may help you in future suggestions:

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1f3kgq/the_top_10_best_paints_according_to_science/

Huh, interesting. I would have thought that Muskelmannbraun would be higher. Maybe that's just because whenever I get an All-Father painted Muskelmannbraun its rather easy to sell because it looks good on the All-Father.

[Swag Inc]

Huh, interesting. I would have thought that Muskelmannbraun would be higher. Maybe that's just because whenever I get an All-Father painted Muskelmannbraun its rather easy to sell because it looks good on the All-Father.

Good point, my measure is for all hats/miscs even if some paints can most likely be more valuable on specific items.

 

However, measuring the paint per item would impractical in my system because (1) there wouldn't be enough data to measure each paint in combination with each item and (2) if I could compute it the data would be hard to present in a clear spreadsheet form.

 

What I find intriguing is the more saturated paints (with the most punch) are the ones retaining the most value. May be loud paints just like loud music could be favored unconsciously by people...

[F CHARLIE]

Olive makes sense.  Its a military color and might not be applied to many items.  The items it gets applied to work well with that paint.  I sold a Bushmans Boonie in Olive and it looked sweet.  Just like Baloo's comment on the All-Father.

 

Alternatively, TS, Black, White, Pink and Lime get put on so many items.  What it might be saying is that tf2 players are not likely good at putting the right kind of colors on items.

[F CHARLIE]

Even as the this last price suggestion was rejected more clean Bills can be found for sale below 8 keys.  Sellers know if want to move their Bills they can are not going to get 8 keys for it.

 

http://trade.tf/price/126/6

 

There is a distinctive trend that shows this hat coming down.  I am going to try not and care anymore if this item is accurately priced as the community feels it should remain at 8 keys even tho most sellers are going below that.  I am not going to trade in Bills hats anyway.  I would consider them a cancer to move for profit and 8 keys can buy me more than a Bills can.

[BQE]

Looks pretty much like a straight line to me.