Illogical logic

[EFF PPM-Λ #8s]

Could someone explained to me how suggesting a new price based off logic using past trades, rarity, and reality then having it voted on is completely side stepped by a pricing admin who seemed to avoid his own logic and not read most of the comments on the suggestion.

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517ea6d6ba2536317a000007

 

If you read through everything, we get down to myself an others coming to the idea that the last Hearts KE realistcally was bought for 31 buds aka executioner + 11 buds. (Taking 18 buds of what backpack.tf says it is worth, because we were being realistic).

 

My price suggestion, is a price range like any other item on this site. 26 to 32 buds. Based on everything that was discussed nothing was out of question or reality based on all the information discussed.

 

What puzzles me is the the last person posting, Sir J-j-jon [Warrior of Redwall],(pricing admin) didnt read most of the comments that basically came to the same exact pricing he concluded the KE sold for, 31.5 buds.

 

Then basically says I just want 30 buds on my hat and thats not good enough for the price suggestion to go through and calls the last purchase of the KE an outliar.

 

Then he closes the discussion. Basically throws out his own logical that validates everything discussed previously on the price suggestion being accurate. No one can  try to explain that his conclusion of 31.5 was already thought to be accurate and where people put it at? A hat selling for 31.5 (his own logic) makes a price range suggestion of 26 to 32 unreasonable? A hat that there is only 3 you can try to buy. A rare wanted hat.

 

Just puts in his two cents in and closes the discussion based on logic that validates the price suggestion. It makes no sense. Did the vote fail or was it just stopped all together by one person? I find it hard to believe the vote failed based on everyones input, the facts, even the admins own logic.

 

Is this site that bias that one admin can just come in a do as he sees fit and throw out all the tools you have to try to make these price suggestion you have on your site valid or respectable?

 

I am ingrained in the Unusual community and seeing this kind of stuff is pretty disappoint, especially when so many people come here for pricing. Whats the point of a price range if admins are just going to shut it down because of what they feel and refuse to look at logic even their own?

 

and to just give even more validity to the price increase. I have the KE and i have had it for 3 days, Ive got 4 offers of over 25 pure and have 2 people willing to pay 30 pure right now. So for a rare hat with a ton of interest and has all the evidence to point to an obvious price increase why is it dictate by one person in a system meant not price by a dictator.

 

None of what that admin did makes sense at all.

 

So please help me understand how this went in a way that was fair and meant to have a community discussed and chosen price. Because this seems like it was dictated by someone who refused his own logic and didnt even read through the discussion.

[There]

Exactly. Some guy suggested 2-2.25 keys on a festive medi gun. I suggested 2 keys flat. They closed my suggestion, accepted the other suggestion, saying on it "This seems a bit high"

 

wtf...

[Iris★]

I agree mostly with what you've said... nevermind the fact that I'm currently offering 30 pure on your hat. Which is really fine... ghost executioner... 20 or 25 or 30 or 35 or whatever people think its worth, + 11 pure... thats still a heck of a lot. And your suggestion doesn't put it out of that range. If I didn't use bp.tf so much, and I knew that a LOT of my friends come on here and give you guys traffic and use the site in general, I wouldn't really care at all. But they do, and as such it's pretty distressing to see this happening so often.

 

This is just a fact, not saying it in any offensive way, but if you go on a trade server and ask people what they think about bp.tf's unusual pricing (notwithstanding the key debacle) you'll get a pretty unanimous opinion that unusual pricing is inaccurate on the website. I have previously argued otherwise, I mean, basically every unusual I've personally owned had a fairly accurate price reading here. But then there's people like poor ppm here who got the short end of the stick because of... yeah I'm not sure what to call what redwall did with this suggestion still... kind of inappropriate... and the one final thing I wanted to bring up about redwall's closure of the suggestion is that it doesn't matter what nicolas chose to do with the executioners and 11 buds. The fact remains that's what the KE (the hat in the suggestion) got traded for. The 3 links he showed only detail the history of the executioner and nicolas' later trades. It has no relevance to pyro's price suggestion. (check the actual suggestion comments for more information about this)

[Chief D]

To be honest, if anyone is wrong, it is who took the price GUIDE as a bible. I'd rather have unusual traders crying about how inaccurate our prices are and do nothing about them, than new players who unboxed a burning KE and sell it for a strange fire axe because they have no idea what the price actually is.

[jjjon123]

Whenever there is a outlying trade (a trade made way above the buyout/asking price or any other sane offers) I completely disregard it as valid and do not consider it when making a range. Here is a excerpt from my unusual pricing guide:

• ✖ DO NOT set it to an unusually high offer or sale. One or two buyers may have offered or paid an insane amount for the unusual you are investigating. Don't use these as proof that it needs a raise. High sales and offers like these may be labeled "outliers" Usually, these occurrences are easy to spot and your suggestion will be rejected.

The executioner + 11 pure offer would Clearly be considered outlying or far above any sane offer or buyout price

 

First let us be clear on the value of the executioner. To do this we must Disregard what it it sold to Toger for seeing that he overpays for his hats

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8214109

 

Offers:

Burning Flamenco + Scorching Fruit Shoot (24.1 unusuals)

Duped Moon Modest (~26-30)

30 Buds (questionable if real or not)

Eerie fire k.e? (22.5 unusuals)

(There are other claimed c/os that are much higher but I cannot prove them)

 

These offers suggest at the least, 25 pure as an acceptable conservative price for this hat.

 

So Toger's offer of ghosts executioner (25 pure) + 11 pure = 36 buds mixed offer

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9934883

 

But the hearts KE owner Only wanted 28 buds!

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10403523

 

Furthermore, EFF initially set his b/o to only 30 buds!

 

When I take all this information together, I get the impression that togers offer was an extreme overpay. I am considering that Nicolas only wanted 28, and EFF only wanted 30 and neither of them claimed to have gotten over 25 pure in the past.

 

Therefore I do not consider it valid proof. That is my reason for closing the suggestion.

[jjjon123]

My point in the comment on the suggestion was to prove that the sale was an outlier by showing how quickly nicolas sold the executioner and subsequently the wraith wrap in order to obtain pure buds not to validate the 32 bud high end.

 

He really was just looking for 28 buds pure. not 36+++

[MC22]

Whenever there is a outlying trade (a trade made way above the buyout/asking price or any other sane offers) I completely disregard it as valid and do not consider it when making a range. Here is a excerpt from my unusual pricing guide:The executioner + 11 pure offer would Clearly be considered outlying or far above any sane offer or buyout price

 

First let us be clear on the value of the executioner. To do this we must Disregard what it it sold to Toger for seeing that he overpays for his hats

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8214109

 

Offers:

Burning Flamenco + Scorching Fruit Shoot (24.1 unusuals)

Duped Moon Modest (~26-30)

30 Buds (questionable if real or not)

Eerie fire k.e? (22.5 unusuals)

(There are other claimed c/os that are much higher but I cannot prove them)

 

These offers suggest at the least, 25 pure as an acceptable conservative price for this hat.

 

So Toger's offer of ghosts executioner (25 pure) + 11 pure = 36 buds mixed offer

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9934883

 

But the hearts KE owner Only wanted 28 buds!

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10403523

 

Furthermore, EFF initially set his b/o to only 30 buds!

 

When I take all this information together, I get the impression that togers offer was an extreme overpay. I am considering that Nicolas only wanted 28, and EFF only wanted 30 and neither of them claimed to have gotten over 25 pure in the past.

 

Therefore I do not consider it valid proof. That is my reason for closing the suggestion.

Logical logic.

[There]

Logical logic.

 

How so? Someone overpayed. And they were willing to do it. Now, someone else might see that someone else was able to sell their hat for that much, and take nothing lower. And the value of the hat rises. 

[Iris★]

How come 22 is still in the low end of the range?

[EFF PPM-Λ #8s]

Let me first say there are good things on this site but the unusual pricing list and how it is ran is a joke. So when I talk about this "site", im specifically talking about the pricing admins and the unusual price sheet.

 

Ill countinue to explain to people how bias this site is and all tools used on it to create a community driven PRICE RANGE on unusuals is a complete illusion. The fact is everything comes down to one "Pricing Admin" who in my opinion doesnt understand the trading economy any better than the next person.

 

Insted of the price range being determined by the community, which the tools are there to create. It all comes down to one person. All the evidence says that the PRICE RANGE should change. The community even voted in favor of the change. You seem to think because you got to 31.5 or whatever number with your logic that it doesnt have any baring on a change in the RANGE. Range as in a certain area the hat could be worth, which it obviously could be worth more than 32 to the right person (look at your own research).

 

But no you looked past your own logic(31.5 and quit changing your price you said 31.5 with your first logical pricing in the hearts ke price change discussion and now are saying 36. Stick to something, don't waver like a confused child), didnt read anything the community discussed on it, wasting everyones time they put into the discussion(basically a big FU to everyone) and made a call based on bias personal reasons, one of which was me wanting 30 pure on my hat. lol if this is how the admins act with price changes for hats, i have to wonder how they go about price changes for items they own or items friends own. Pssh this site is joke.

 

---------------------------

"Offers:

Burning Flamenco + Scorching Fruit Shoot (24.1 unusuals)

Duped Moon Modest (~26-30)

30 Buds (questionable if real or not)

Eerie fire k.e? (22.5 unusuals)

(There are other claimed c/os that are much higher but I cannot prove them)"

 

**I love how you create doubt on the higher offers and leave certainty on the lower pricing. LOL way to support your bs with more bs.

---------------------------

My suggestion was overly high? from 22 - 28 to 26 - 32? Are you kidding? What a terribly bias decision. Do you even read your research or anything? Its a price range on a rare valuable hat, how do you set the price on 1 of 1 hats using this lose rule? Laugh you have to take everything into account especially very obvious offers. But the ONLY thing that got taken into account was your bs bias decision, thats it. You made it that way no one else. You forced it on the community.

 

And yes we both (nicholas and I) claimed we have legitimate offers of 25 or more in pure. Why dont you try reading what people type and discuss? You are an Admin? Wow!

 

I already got 2 offers of 30 pure and plenty of 25 + offer in pure. lol I guess if I make a trade that will be an outliar too. lol you make me laugh. If I was a senoir admin, if there even are on this site, I would take you aside and tell you not to F up the tools that are put in place to create a community driven price range with your dictator high and mighty bs. Put your 2 cents in and close the vote/discussion, like your comment is what the community should take as final. Its a joke. You should have left the discussion open and defended your bs comment. You are a joke and hence this sites crediability is joke. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just kissing your A*s or is purposely blinding themselves to the reality of how F'ed your system is.

 

This sites attempt at making a community driven price range on unusuals was and is a good thing, but when you throw everything out the window and let one admin kill a vote and have his word final, it is just pathetic. You essentially create a pricing sheet dictated by very few rather than the community as a whole. Just another shit price sheet, wrapped up with a pretty bow. Just a shiny turd in my opinion.

 

Why dont you have some oversite on your dictator admins and make the community tools be the driving factor? Or just take the tools out. Because the novice trader puts credibility into them, which there is obviously none.

 

All this admin did is further support that a very small number of admins probably use this site to their benefit when it is needed and completely skew the unusual price market. Corruption is probably not at a premium on here, its very obvious. At the same time he spit on the members who took the time to discuss and vote on the hat.

 

At the very least this admin should apologize to everyone for their time he wasted and who he basically told to F*ck Off when he forced them to take what he said as the end all truth.

 

I tried to see the positive in this site, but there is obviously none.

[Synister]

-snip-

You didn't even read how to properly submit a suggestion question ( http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/75-guidelines-for-suggestion-question-threads/ ) and you came off as very rude the whole time.  Not only that, you didn't even properly make a suggestion!  Want to know my two cents?  With that last post, you should be kicked to the curb, chewed up, spit out, and then hit by the ban hammer on your way out.

 

 

Also, so that I'm actually weighing in at the topic at hand, it doesn't look like it was the Ghosts Executioner + 11 buds.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10363113

4 days ago, the owner of the Hearts KE asked if he would do the Ghosts Executioner + 7 buds, & he said he would think about it.

 

That & Nicolas' trade shows that the offer was a Ghosts Executioner + 5 buds

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9934883

[jjjon123]

I have dealt with this same issue before, with much of the same response that I am receiving now.

 

First let me make it clear that I am NOT the only "Senior Pricing Admin". When I created the unusual pricing guide, I made sure all the other admins at the time took a very careful look at it and after multiple reads and rewordings using input from the other mods to add/detract and to edit some of the points, I published it in the forums as it is today. Overall, the other admins at the time, mainly those who took care of unusuals agreed with all the points stated.

 

Second, I did not know of your claimed 30 bud offers and multiple 25 bud offer, let me show you exactly what I saw and exactly what I was able to work off of. Please try to understand that I am not you, I dont know how many 25 pure offers you got, I dont know how many 30 pure offer you got. I can only see what is in front of me.

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517ea6d6ba2536317a000007?full=1

 

"I am bias because I own the only one on the market and 1 of 2 you can actually try to trade for but the trade was legit."

 

I see this and immediately I am in careful mode because you own one and whether its sarcasm or not, you say that you are biased.

 

"Your buyout was 30 buds. That last buyout of the last one on Outpost was 28 buds. Why is 32 here?"

 

Hmm, doesnt look like Im the only one thinking this

 

"Hmm that guy paid ~35 buds for a ghost executioner and then 46 for a hearts ke. I think we should take his deals with some care.~

 

Someone else who is questioning the validity of togers offers, maybe they are a bit on the high end.

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9934883 :

 

Killers Price in buds: 28

Killers Price in buds: 28

Killers Price in buds: 28

Killers Price in buds: 28

Killers Price in buds: 28

 

His buyout is 28 buds, he only wants 28 buds

 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10403523

 

B/O 30 pure or 35 in Unusuals.

B/O 30 pure or 35 in Unusuals.

B/O 30 pure or 35 in Unusuals.

B/O 30 pure or 35 in Unusuals.

B/O 30 pure or 35 in Unusuals.

 

Your buyout is 30 buds, you would settle for 30 pure

 

I ask myself: "Why is 32 buds the high end???"

I think: "The only offer supporting the raise is togers offer"

I think some more: "His offer is ridiculously high, that is definately an outlier trade"

I come to the conclusion: "The suggestion is way too high, the next highest offer I see is 25 buds and that is not even in the suggested range. The old range is not so bad, 28 is the buyout and high end. Old price is fine."

I proceed to close the suggestion.

 

What now? Well now it appears you have gotten some 30 bud offers, some more 25 bud offers. I could not have known of these before. I would now support a new price of 25-30, and if you get some more extremely high unusual offers, then you can suggest a even higher range no problem.

[jjjon123]

snip

http://backpack.tf/id/76561198058454054?time=1367218800

 

The exe + 11 pure was legit.

[EFF PPM-Λ #8s]

lol you are a joke

[Hugh Jazz]

 

lol you are a joke

Nice comeback.