Value unusuals in keys, not buds.

[Flutterslut]

I know unusuals were originally valued in USD and I think the change away from that was a good idea. However, with the way it seems buds want to go, I'm suggesting that keys are used as the baseline.

 

Take this, for instance (since it's entirely pure and it's big enough to notice a difference): http://backpack.tf/vote/id/543f6992b98d8833228b46a8

 

Back when this was suggested, it would've been about 9500 keys, or $19k. Now, it's 6,750. I'm aware bp.tf doesn't accurately track these sorts of expensive hats by price but rather by sales..but surely it's inaccurate to have the price of hats locked to an item which fewer people are using now, for the sole reason it's unstable?

All that's likely to happen is unusuals which get regular sales (i.e. smaller ones) will need to be refreshed more and more often, since they may sell for 4 buds in keys, which quickly becomes 5 buds in keys, which quickly becomes 6, etc.

 

I've noticed a lot of people now pricing in keys (a *lot* more than used to - and I've started too) just because a hat that has been a solid 5 buds for the last year or two isn't 5 buds anymore, because 5 buds is quickly becoming 3.

 

EDIT: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/25842-will-unusuals-be-priced-mostly-in-keys-soon/

[Jacobmeister]

Things are priced in what they're most commonly traded for - buds are still being used to trade for unusuals, and as long as they are, they will still be priced in buds. As it's the traders themselves who trade in buds, it's not our fault if a trade happens in buds and we value it in buds but the value of buds goes down.

[Slocumruls]

might want to tell that to the 3 people I've bought hats from with buds in the last week

[Flutterslut]

Things are priced in what they're most commonly traded for - buds are still being used to trade for unusuals, and as long as they are, they will still be priced in buds. As it's the traders themselves who trade in buds, it's not our fault if a trade happens in buds and we value it in buds but the value of buds goes down.

 

Buds are being used in place of X keys at some time. If some time later buds are now X-5 keys, that sale seems to make the most sense at X keys, whereas bp.tf would report that sale at X-5.

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/548671e4ba8d888f168b5134Main sale is mainly keys, yet it's priced in buds - which is absolutely clearer..yet in 3 months, that sale will have dropped from 93 keys to maybe 81 keys.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549199e4ba8d88f63d8b4583Sold for knives, which are priced in keys.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54894913b88d88d95c8b4bd2Priced using 'bud prices at time of sale', which asserts what I said.

 

I'm not suggesting to remove buds from the equation entirely. I'm just suggesting the backend prices unusuals in keys and buds values are updated as the market changes.

[Jacobmeister]

Buds are being used in place of X keys at some time. If some time later buds are now X-5 keys, that sale seems to make the most sense at X keys, whereas bp.tf would report that sale at X-5.

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/548671e4ba8d888f168b5134Main sale is mainly keys.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549199e4ba8d88f63d8b4583Sold for knives, which are priced in keys.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54894913b88d88d95c8b4bd2Priced using 'bud prices at time of sale', which asserts what I said.

 

I agree that a few that were priced in buds should be in keys, but it's not our problem now. Mods have stated before they'd prefer unusuals priced in buds (as that was generally the common trading point for unusuals) which is why you see 'em in buds there.

 

It'll be a gradual change, and my original point still stands.

[Flutterslut]

True.

 

I just always saw buds as being used because they a) originally were the only way to do bigger trades, and therefore stuck and are still used to replace X keys, which makes (to me) more sense that they should reflect X keys at the time of sale, rather than being used as a currency of their own, *especially* given how volatile they currently are.

[polar]

There have been a hundred threads about this already. But I'll post this again. Items should be valued in what they are actually sold. If trades are happening in keys, I have no issue with pricing them in keys. The issue is that most trades are NOT happening in keys because ----

 

Buds are a reflection of the unusual economy. They retain value due to unusuals and the need for a higher denomination of currency, but they also lose value when the unusual market stagnates. This is always the hardest time for the tf2 economy. Most people cash out in the month before Christmas. Some are just done with trading, and it marks a clean year-end break. Others need money for gifts. Whatever the reason, this is the absolute hardest time to sell hats and has been for me 3 years running. And last year was awful since we were still recovering from the effects of robo + 3rd gens + halloween effects within a few months of each other. Even then it recovered.

 

The 2 weeks following Christmas the last two years were the BEST time to sell unusuals. Especially last year when steam wallet funds started becoming regular gifts, buyable at major retailers. There was a lot of money pumped into the economy last year right after Christmas. I remember selling about 50 buds worth of hats for pure in a week, more than any other week all year. We'll see where things go this year, but I suspect a similar, though perhaps attenuated, revival this year. Interest in unusuals is bound to support buds value.

 

 

At the end of the day, unusuals are selling for the same amount of buds now as they were when buds were 16 keys. Buds have dropped probably because unusuals have lost a ton of value. Interest in unusuals should increase substantially from Christmas money.

[Flutterslut]

There have been a hundred threads about this already.

 

My apologies. I scanned for them, but couldn't find them. Maybe I'm bad at that thing.

 

Buds are a reflection of the unusual economy. They retain value due to unusuals and the need for a higher denomination of currency, but they also lose value when the unusual market stagnates.

 

I've had no issues selling my unusuals at a price slightly below their key price back with 15/16 key buds, which to me says that the market isn't stagnating right now. Maybe I've just gotten lucky.

 

But thanks for the input, I'd say I'll go think about it and come back but I think that shuts down my suggestion completely. (I'll still give it a think anyway, heh)

[Zcrab]

It's much easier to price them in Buds when pricing hats that that are of a veri high tier. I'm not talking Burning TC high-tier but the hats that go for 10-20 Buds.

 

250 Keys is a crazy amount of something to pay, I don't even know if you can trade that many keys in one single trade. Therefore Buds would be easier to price the Hats in, as thoose hats would go for Buds most likely.

 

Sure, hats that are under, what, 5 Buds? Can be priced in whatever they are trade for the most, I can agree with that.

 

Buds are being used in place of X keys at some time. If some time later buds are now X-5 keys, that sale seems to make the most sense at X keys, whereas bp.tf would report that sale at X-5.

 

Same thing with Keys, they rise in value as well. With that logic the best way to price hats is by $, but then still, the US Dollar might fall in value aswell, so what do we then price them in? Buds change in value just as much as anything else, there is nothing to do against it.

[polar]

My apologies. I scanned for them, but couldn't find them. Maybe I'm bad at that thing.

 

I've had no issues selling my unusuals at a price slightly below their key price back with 15/16 key buds, which to me says that the market isn't stagnating right now. Maybe I've just gotten lucky.

 

But thanks for the input, I'd say I'll go think about it and come back but I think that shuts down my suggestion completely. (I'll still give it a think anyway, heh)

 

Depends a lot on the hat. Think about it from the big picture. There was a time when we had just first gen hats. Unusuals were actually rare and there was a need to have a denomination of currency to buy and sell them -- we get buds. Then we get second gens, third gens, robo, multiple halloweens, EoTL effects. We get WAY more different hats / cosmetics. But at the end of the day, in the last two years TF2 hasn't exactly grown in numbers. Same number of people but WAY more effects and hats. Unusuals have been going down for a long time and the buds value is a direct reflection of that. 

 

Why have you had luck? Savvy traders understand which hats to invest in. Rare, desired hats will continue to go up in value or at least retain their USD value because they are exactly that - rare and desired. Now is a phenomenal time to buy those rare, desired hats for buds because buds are so cheap. Values should skyrocket when Christmas money comes in. I already have 3 trades lined up for Christmas when people are getting money to pay for hats I'm selling. And it's no surprise it's the rare desired hats - PE tyro, PE chapeau - that are selling for their pure b/os. 

[Flutterslut]

Why have you had luck? Savvy traders understand which hats to invest in. Rare, desired hats will continue to go up in value or at least retain their USD value because they are exactly that - rare and desired. Now is a phenomenal time to buy those rare, desired hats for buds because buds are so cheap. Values should skyrocket when Christmas money comes in. I already have 3 trades lined up for Christmas when people are getting money to pay for hats I'm selling. And it's no surprise it's the rare desired hats - PE tyro, PE chapeau - that are selling for their pure b/os. 

None of my prices have been that sort of savvy-trader-pickup price. They've been more than fair, but not the sort of price that would attract investors. Neither were they rare or desired - mostly generic 2nd gens, some 3rd gens. But I've been hitting the prices in pure (with undervalued buds, too) or 20-30% overpay in unusuals. At least a few were people buying hats they simply liked. Could just be Christmas gifting, though.

[polar]

None of my prices have been that sort of savvy-trader-pickup price. They've been more than fair, but not the sort of price that would attract investors. Neither were they rare or desired - mostly generic 2nd gens, some 3rd gens. But I've been hitting the prices in pure (with undervalued buds, too) or 20-30% overpay in unusuals. At least a few were people buying hats they simply liked. Could just be Christmas gifting, though.

 

Well, none of this really applies to hats 1-2 buds in value. 1 buds hats are still selling alright for 13 keys+ to a lot of new traders who want their first unusual. If you are talking about mid-high tiers, then... I don't know what to say. I have certainly not had that experience. And all the suggestions I have seen in the last week show sales in buds at the same amount they've always sold at in buds.

[❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤]

Well, none of this really applies to hats 1-2 buds in value. 1 buds hats are still selling alright for 13 keys+ to a lot of new traders who want their first unusual. If you are talking about mid-high tiers, then... I don't know what to say. I have certainly not had that experience. And all the suggestions I have seen in the last week show sales in buds at the same amount they've always sold at in buds.

I had a poll made when buds enter the market about how ppl thinks this will affect buds and their price.

minority said it will rise their price majority said it will stabilize their price the trueth is I was right again and it ceashed their value in pre backpack.tf levels.

and I still think this is not the lowest point they will reach.when buds are stocked to 3000-5000 pcs in market the price will stabilize till then it will continuously drop.

 since this is not a decision bp.tf or anyone can make on their own

I suggest a huge poll of how we should price unusuals from now on.I wouldn't like to keep buds as a currency and I am pretty surre there are a lot of ppl that feels the same way as I do.

 I know you will say the same excuse as the majority trades for buds I disagree the majority sell for buds that quicksell for keys and that is what actually drop buds.

[Jacobmeister]

I had a poll made when buds enter the market about how ppl thinks this will affect buds and their price.

minority said it will rise their price majority said it will stabilize their price the trueth is I was right again and it ceashed their value in pre backpack.tf levels.

and I still think this is not the lowest point they will reach.when buds are stocked to 3000-5000 pcs in market the price will stabilize till then it will continuously drop.

 since this is not a decision bp.tf or anyone can make on their own

I suggest a huge poll of how we should price unusuals from now on.I wouldn't like to keep buds as a currency and I am pretty surre there are a lot of ppl that feels the same way as I do.

 I know you will say the same excuse as the majority trades for buds I disagree the majority sell for buds that quicksell for keys and that is what actually drop buds.

 

People still see buds as a currency, though. If you don't want it to be, just don't involve yourself with trading with buds.

[❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤]

 

People still see buds as a currency, though. If you don't want it to be, just don't involve yourself with trading with buds.

give it some time and ppl will change the way they see things.

 buds are a failed currency and nobody likes that attribute on a currency the more ppl that will reject buds as a pure payment the more buds will drop

of course steam market will help with that a lot.

the only reason I still accept buds is cause they are easy to quicksell so I sell them 1 ref lower than anyone else the second I get my hands on those.

 I am pretty sure that a lot of ppl do the same.not even bots can keep up the pace any longer.

the drop is out of control.

[Katzz]

It's difficult to use keys as currency in unusual suggestions, when the sellers at OutPost TF are looking for buds.

[Slocumruls]

personally I've had no real problems buying unusual hats/taunts in buds recently. It is still a commonly used and accepted currency item that people desire for trading for other unusuals, steam money, or games. The hats/taunts I've put buds into recently continue to sell equal to or higher than what they did previously on steam market and that's all that really matters to me.

[1+1=3 ?]

Perhaps we should discuss this topic after Christmas. Let's see after Christmas will the buds rise and stable again or continue to drop and become rubbish. If it becomes rubbish, I don't think we should use buds as currency anymore

[Jacobmeister]

Perhaps we should discuss this topic after Christmas. Let's see after Christmas will the buds rise and stable again or continue to drop and become rubbish. If it becomes rubbish, I don't think we should use buds as currency anymore

 

Backpack.tf does not control the market, and what the currencies are. The market decides it, we reflect it.

[OverduePixels]

Backpack.tf does not control the market, and what the currencies are. The market decides it, we reflect it.

 

He never said backpack does control the market. Read his post again

 

He said we will have to see whether earbuds rise after Christmas like it does every year or not.

 

If it becomes rubbish, I don't think we should use buds as currency anymore

[polar]

I had a poll made when buds enter the market about how ppl thinks this will affect buds and their price.

minority said it will rise their price majority said it will stabilize their price the trueth is I was right again and it ceashed their value in pre backpack.tf levels.

and I still think this is not the lowest point they will reach.when buds are stocked to 3000-5000 pcs in market the price will stabilize till then it will continuously drop.

 since this is not a decision bp.tf or anyone can make on their own

I suggest a huge poll of how we should price unusuals from now on.I wouldn't like to keep buds as a currency and I am pretty surre there are a lot of ppl that feels the same way as I do.

 I know you will say the same excuse as the majority trades for buds I disagree the majority sell for buds that quicksell for keys and that is what actually drop buds.

 

Yup. You were right as always....

[Blatch]

This thread is pretty much useless now that buds have bounced back to 15-16 keys.

[Slocumruls]

 

 

Yup. You were right as always....

 

i can almost feel the sarcasm through the computer

[Jester]

This thread is pretty much useless now that buds have bounced back to 15-16 keys.

Ignoring the problem is not solving the problem. The next time buds start crashing this will get hot again. Or once valve makes a craft recipe for making 20 keys into a bundle of keys.

 

Edit: and buds are back to dropping...