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Scam, shark, ripoff, profit & stuff.


Auroz

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Hey there. Today I'll ask you what you think about that and how you define these different types of "profit", legit or not. I know that quick-switch or Paypal chargeback are bannable offenses, but what's the limit between "it's okay, you made a good profit" and "omg omg omg you are a scammer blah"

 

Let's start the debate ;_;

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steam market is not a shark 

someone selling for their own listed price (even if its 80% below market value) is not a shark

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Hey there. Today I'll ask you what you think about that and how you define these different types of "profit", legit or not. I know that quick-switch or Paypal chargeback are bannable offenses, but what's the limit between "it's okay, you made a good profit" and "omg omg omg you are a scammer blah"

 

Let's start the debate ;_;

First lesson:

 quick-switching & chargebacks = scamming

being deceptive about true values / taking advantage of inexperienced users = sharking

 

I believe you're asking about the fine line between a good deal and sharking, so scams have nothing to do with things.  Anyway, TF2Outpost classifies it as 

Manipulating another user into trading/selling a valuable item for 10% or less of its accepted value (or 20% or less for users with less than 200 hours in that game) or any other deceptive trading practice that the staff consider to be against the spirit of this rule.

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I'd say someone selling it for their own price isn't a shark, but tricking someone into thinking their item is worth less than it actually is would be classified as a shark.

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So what if you are trading with someone on a random server and they have for example, a Kringle Collection and you ask them what they want for it and they check your items and they say they want just a weapon is that a shark?

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So what if you are trading with someone on a random server and they have for example, a Kringle Collection and you ask them what they want for it and they check your items and they say they want just a weapon is that a shark?

 

Yes, that would be a shark.

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So what if you are trading with someone on a random server and they have for example, a Kringle Collection and you ask them what they want for it and they check your items and they say they want just a weapon is that a shark?

no, He technically offered on something on your bp so he is the one with the price in mind of his item.

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Yes, that would be a shark.

No It would not be. You are simply accepting the offer they gave you. You have done no "manipulating" and so therefor it wouldn't fall under the classic definition of shark. If they asked you how much it was worth and you said 1 wep and then they accepted that trade it would be sharking but accepting another person's price is never sharking if you haven't coaxed them into putting that price.

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So what if I offer on a unpriced (I mean, not suggested by bptf) unusual hat, for someone who have no idea how much this item worth, I'm not lying on prices and he agrees with the trade ? Rules are not really clear on that.

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Sharking - A Proactive High Baller - Low Baller all rolled into 1 :)

 

High Baller because - They convince you that THEIR items are worth much more than they really are

Low Baller because - They make you believe that YOUR items are much lower than they actually are

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So what about this: Btw this is for example

Other Person: I really want that hat (Craft hat 1.33)

You/Me:  Can I have that salvaged crate (5 keys) , I like to uncrate

Other Person: Sure

So since you offered your item for theirs, and you didn't say your item was worth more/their item was worth less would that be a shark?

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To be completely honest, I find nothing wrong with sharking. It's ridiculously easy to go look up the price of things and then make a wise judgmental decision when trading. If you were able to convey the worth of an item to be less than it really is and someone got ripped off, well, they should have checked the market price. And the reverse is true too; if you were too lazy to check a price yourself and YOU got ripped off, then I feel sorry for you but I wouldn't say you were wronged. You just made a mistake. We were all a noob at one time, and most of us probably got sharked once.

 

The only reason I expect that you wouldn't want to look up the price is if it would take too much time, but if the other person you're trading with is too impatient to let you make a trading choice then you probably shouldn't be trading with them anyway.

 

Scamming however; being legitimately cheated, with no consent, out of your hard-earned worth is something I don't condone.

 

But, sharking isn't necessarily allowed. The general rule, as I see, is that if someone doesn't know that you're making a profit off of them, then you're sharking. In scrap banking, trading a weapon for a scrap, you are obviously making a profit by getting the worth of two weapons for one weapon. But unless you literally started playing within weeks of a trade, then most everyone acknowledges scrap banking and thus it wouldn't be sharking.

 

The only gray area I see in sharking is with new items. I have a friend who got earbuds when they were first released and sold them for like 3 weapons. But since earbuds were new, they weren't established as anything of worth; people back then didn't sit there and say "These earbuds are going to be worth a fortune soon". So that might not have been sharking then but it certainly would be sharking now.

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Here's the jist of it.  

 

Nine times out of ten, if you initiated the offer with them, you're sharking.  If they initiated it with you, it's a-ok.  Though I say 9/10 because it also depends on several different cases such as context, if you counter offer, etc etc.

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Yes, that would be a shark.

 

What Slocumruls said sir.

No It would not be. You are simply accepting the offer they gave you. You have done no "manipulating" and so therefor it wouldn't fall under the classic definition of shark. If they asked you how much it was worth and you said 1 wep and then they accepted that trade it would be sharking but accepting another person's price is never sharking if you haven't coaxed them into putting that price.

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Signature, lel

 

"I'm French! Why do you think I have this OUTRAGEOUS accent, you silly king?"

 

Oh, and on topic: don't lie. If at some point in the negotiations you lie, you're going to be in trouble. If you didn't lie about anything, you won't be in trouble. Even a terrible lowball, provided you don't claim it's a reasonable offer, is acceptable.

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So what about this: Btw this is for example

Other Person: I really want that hat (Craft hat 1.33)

You/Me:  Can I have that salvaged crate (5 keys) , I like to uncrate

Other Person: Sure

So since you offered your item for theirs, and you didn't say your item was worth more/their item was worth less would that be a shark?

no for you didn't manipulate him in thinking it was a good deal.
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Scamming is stealing, sharking is manipulating and the rest is just the other guy being stupid. Stupidity can't be helped.

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To be completely honest, I find nothing wrong with sharking.

 

To me, there's a huge difference between not having any pity with the victim and condoning sharking. You're absolutely right, anyone who gets sharked could've easily prevented it, but actively seeking out idiots to take advantage of their ignorance and gullibility is something else still. To me, it's honestly not too far from taking advantage of a retard in real life. We used to pick on people who did that where I come from.

 

As far as my own trades are concerned, I draw the line at manipulating people. If someone adds me to quicksell his item and then tells me he thinks it's worth more, I would never try to convince him that it isn't. I just explain them what the purpose of my trades is and if that's not for them, they need to sell their item to someone else.

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Obviously chargebacks, etc. falls under scamming.  

 

When the other party is clearly unaware of the true value of their item, and you take advantage of that, it's sharking (and no, it's not as simple as just looking it up.  What if the person has zero experience with TF2 trading and items?  He may not even know that something like BP.tf exists).   

 

If someone is just trying to dump an item for much less than it's worth and they're aware of the true value, it's ok, go for the deal, you're getting lucky.  

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