Should we accept collector sales as proof?

[∞Ramses]

This is probably of most importance for dirty suggestions.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161165eba25363e5f000005

 

Should we accept collector buyers as proof?

Because, in my opinion, a collector will almost always buy for the full price, or even more.

 

 

DISCUSS

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

It depends on the item.

 

Rare vintages only collectors buy, so they should set the price. As for uc I think they should also set the price because the only people who would pay more for uc over craftables are collectors. (the only reason I turned everything I used into ucs was because it was cheaper.) also there are a lot of uc collectors, so I don't see an issue.

[Santa Heavy]

Honestly no.

Collectors don't reflect the general market for items so why target a specific group.

It's preposterous.

[Puddilicious]

It depends on how many are available on the market. If they are very few or none, then collector's sales count. If there are many on the market, then they should be considered outliers.

[MC22]

Honestly no.

Collectors don't reflect the general market for items so why target a specific group.

It's preposterous.

there is no general market. UC weps are traded so little that only collector's evidence can be found (I think)

[Uranium235]

Honestly no.

Collectors don't reflect the general market for items so why target a specific group.

It's preposterous.

 

If there was an easy way to get them cheaper, we - the collectors - would know about it and not pay more than you would. There is just one market (excl. Mann Co) for them and thus only one price to observe / report.

See my other post in your thread about uncraft Weapons why collectors often set the price for dirty items.

 

The concept, as always, is (Aggregate) Supply and (Aggregate) Demand.

[Jymotion]

yes.  eventually (in theory), when all the collectors have their items, the price will fall back down.  as long as they are out there, collectable items are worth more.

[cleverpun]

yes.  eventually (in theory), when all the collectors have their items, the price will fall back down.  as long as they are out there, collectable items are worth more.

 

I don't know if it's that simple. The time required to find a collector for some items is a notable investment--leveled items in particular have a very inconsistent market.

 

 

It depends on how many are available on the market. If they are very few or none, then collector's sales count. If there are many on the market, then they should be considered outliers.

 

 

I don't have a problem using collectors for pricing, but there should be some precedent for it; how much of the market do they need to control before it is important? How long does it take to sell an item to a collector? Is that premium paid often or only rarely?

[BQE]

As a collector of Exquisite Racks, OP you are wrong.  I am not willing to pay more simply because I collect them.  In fact, I want them as cheap as I can get them, since I'm collecting them.  Also as a counter point, who would know the value of an item better than a collector?  The person who's almost assuredly most experienced in trading for that item? 

 

 

On the topic of other collector items such as craft numbers, odd level vintages, rare uncraft items - the people that buy those basically fall under two categories.  1, actual collectors, who make up an incredibly small number compared to the total number of people who might actually buy the item.  2, people falsely think they can resell it for a higher price, because "6 keys is such a great deal!"  In my experience, what someone is willing to pay for these kinds of items is far far less than what someone thinks they can sell it for.  

 

edit: Furthermore, why should collectors not be counted?  Are they not a trader?  Are they not part of the population of "people that buy X item and affect its price"? 

[Puddilicious]

I don't know if it's that simple. The time required to find a collector for some items is a notable investment--leveled items in particular have a very inconsistent market.

 

 

 

 

I don't have a problem using collectors for pricing, but there should be some precedent for it; how much of the market do they need to control before it is important? How long does it take to sell an item to a collector? Is that premium paid often or only rarely?

They have to control nearly 100% of the market for their offers and sales to be important and the offers have to be recent and preferably plentiful, but that isn't always necessary depending on how rarely the item shows up on market.

[Jymotion]

leveled items in particular have a very inconsistent market.

 

well, we don't do suggestions for leveled items, but I'm assuming you were just using an example.  I'm mainly referring to dirty items that only pop up on outpost every now and then.  Right now, I'm selling an uncraftable item that hasn't been updated in months and is the only one on outpost.  when I eventually sell it (to a collector, most likely), I will submit a suggestion based on those offers.

 

but yes, as with all things, it depends

[Uranium235]

Right now, I'm selling an uncraftable item that hasn't been updated in months and is the only one on outpost.

Yeah, I saw that trade. I was wondering if it even makes sense to offer, because it seems like you have some kind of standing offer from the guy that now retracted to simply outbid the offer you would take. And then I would feel like a pawn in his game to buy as low as possible while still outbidding everyone else.

 

Why doesn't he simply offer what he's willing to pay? It seems his initial offer was more than just very good and high enough to push all other collectors aside.

[Jymotion]

Yeah, I saw that trade. I was wondering if it even makes sense to offer, because it seems like you have some kind of standing offer from the guy that now retracted to simply outbid the offer you would take. And then I would feel like a pawn in his game to buy as low as possible while still outbidding everyone else.

 

Why doesn't he simply offer what he's willing to pay? It seems his initial offer was more than just very good and high enough to push all other collectors aside.

 

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'll fill ya in.  He made an offer, I told him I didn't have a buyout and would like to entertain more offers, he said he doesn't like to be in bidding wars and "retracted".  Basically said to let him know when I have a firm price.  If I don't get other offers and I get impatient, I'll see if he wants to pay 3 ref for it.

[Joshua Cain]

Here is a thought. In bp.tf many uc weapons r listed at less than .05. What u hav a new player who wants to increase here s stock of playing items and offers to trade a craftable weapon to get several uc weapons to play with. Does this create a bazaar situation with competing buyers? Collectors paying more, maybe, and regular players wanting to get more for less.

 

I agree that if collectors are the major proof then that's what you use. You should take the proof available. What about level collectors? Bp.tf doesn't hav a guide for that.

[cleverpun]

well, we don't do suggestions for leveled items, but I'm assuming you were just using an example.

What about level collectors? Bp.tf doesn't hav a guide for that.

 

Yes, it was just an example. And I still think it's a valid comparison--collectors are such a niche market that many people don't bother to sell to them (i've had plenty of leveled things pass through my hands for that reason, and that's why I mentioned it).

 

Now you could argue that it's sellers not being informed, instead of being lazy, which is exactly what the point of this thread is. I'm always in favor of informing consumers, and that's why I stand by my original statement--collectors should be valid evidence but there needs to be some precedents for how.

[Uranium235]

collectors should be valid evidence but there needs to be some precedents for how.

 

There is no need to distinguish collectors from non collectors. How would you reliably identify them anyway? There is just one market to observe. Collectors may have the higher priced individual demand curve, but they are not going to pay more than they need to according to the aggregate supply and demand curve.

 

So, when prices are suggested and there should be one / a few collector(s) that for some odd reason did pay (a lot) more than the majority of the market, there should be plenty of counter evidence. Otherwise they set the price or are at least responsible for the high end.

 

I see no problem.

[F CHARLIE]

I had a lvl 0 vint hot rod that bp.tf listed in my pack for 12 keys.  How did it know about a previous transaction?  I got for 5 keys and traded at 7 keys as part of an offering for an unusual.

[F CHARLIE]

I had a lvl 0 vint hot rod that bp.tf listed in my pack for 12 keys.  How did it know about a previous transaction?  I got for 5 keys and traded at 7 keys as part of an offering for an unusual.

 

In this situation, which is a better proof?  The 5 key purchase or the 7 key trade.

[Uranium235]

I had a lvl 0 vint hot rod that bp.tf listed in my pack for 12 keys.  How did it know about a previous transaction?  I got for 5 keys and traded at 7 keys as part of an offering for an unusual.

In this situation, which is a better proof?  The 5 key purchase or the 7 key trade.

Please learn to use the edit button, ffs! You had been banned on OP for annoying the hell out of mods with that.

 

Neither of the two is proof, because bptf does not have a price listed for them, see above.

Anyway, you, as so many others don't seem to bother to look up how bonus prices are calculated. They are more or less arbitrary and do not reflect actual market prices. Why do you think they are quoted in brackets?

If you're not a collector and don't care about levels, you should stay away from them unless you really know what you're doing.