M0ckingbird Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 At this point all we can do is leave -trusts. I did just that and he immediately responded with some stupid non-valid -trust on my bp profile lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincentius Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Mods dont seem to care about buyorders if pricemods dont even follow them. https://backpack.tf/issue/614942d9f25da259fc628682 https://backpack.tf/issue/616713d2e97cb242f0195291 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offline Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 My favorite issue ending is "the report has been noted" What the fuck is that? https://backpack.tf/issue/6096c106528a0c2d0d34c372 https://backpack.tf/issue/608f52d747006e1af3555563 https://backpack.tf/issue/607f4ad3f07d655963263f05 Left open for 3 months to finish with "Noted" ?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingLollipop Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, Offline said: My favorite issue ending is "the report has been noted" we acknowledge that the rules are being broken have a nice day the only movement on buy orders in years is because the bot owners whined that people were shill bidding can't bid up against a bot to sell your item for its limit if the bot is dumb enough to follow... why should that be the problem that gets cracked down on? doesn't the bots limit literally mean they're willing to pay that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master of the Hellish Yard Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 26 minutes ago, M0ckingbird said: At this point all we can do is leave -trusts. I did just that and he immediately responded with some stupid non-valid -trust on my bp profile lol. Lmao I did that and same thing happened to me. I reported the non valid -trust and it's been almost 3 weeks already with no change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSO Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Hey guys here is my direct buy order for all nuts and bolts unusuals for 100 keys. No I don't actually have the pure and neither would I honor that if I did xx Watch as I get another forum warning within days while the joke in OP gets away Scott free over months / years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bliss Abyss Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 Disclaimer that I do have my personal irks with people not sticking to sell/buy orders especially this halloween update, but hopefully that doesn't devalue my following stance - 3 hours ago, OverduePixels said: Hiya, we are very very lenient on reports like this and we have mentioned time and time again, we are lenient on Classified report like the ones you linked. If you want stricter rules surrounding this, do not be surprised if you end up catching a ban too. So, think carefully and make sure you guys are okay with going forward with a stricter rules regarding this issue. Do not circle back about catching bans if you want to head into a stricter direction. I'm sure as a moderator yourself, you have seen from reports alone just how often classified listings either aren't used correctly or aren't followed up on by the person who put it up. If I recall correctly, those are the types of reports you get most on this site. This is a side effect of what I would consider being too lenient when it comes to enforcement on classified listings. The reason it's considered problematic is not only because of a general lack of integrity when it comes to sticking to sell/buy orders and respecting the rules for listings due to said leniency, but it also results in more reports and more workload. From what I have seen (and correct me if I am wrong), there aren't many moderators at all who are active in checking reports, you being one of the only ones if I remember right, and it seems quite a few reports aren't resolved in a timely manner. Stricter rules wouldn't make the workload disappear of course, some people will still break them, but with more proactive punishment comes less incentive to break those rules, and in general less reports having to be made. 2 hours ago, OverduePixels said: If we take entirety of warning history, many would constantly be banned or worse, permanently banned, including Toad himself. I am genuinely saying it for the good for you all that if frequency is not taken into account, many would be here showing concern how we are constantly banning or permanently banned users "little things". Toad already bought up how we ban for little things and unfair bans and that didn't take multiple comments of me posting. I feel that people 'showing concern how we are constantly banning or permanently banned users "little things"', even if it would happen, at least by itself isn't grounds to leave things as they are now. From what I see: You have repeat offenders who have no actual regard for the rules, not getting any tangible punishment, in which while I can understand wanting to take frequency to account, if someone is clearly showing they haven't learned from past mistakes with blatant disregard to the rules, for them not to receive adequate punishment only lets that behavior manifest more, worse case giving others the impression that it's fine for them to do the same. "You barely get in trouble for it, why does it matter if I don't follow the rules either?". You have some items where buy orders are regularly being made to overcut proper listings, such as bulk buyers, 'only buying if it has x', etc, which in turn also promotes one or two people who have proper listings to just end up doing the same. You have an overflow of reports and workload (or worse overflow rather; I really feel you need more active moderators on reports) due to the current leniency on the classifieds. Something needs to change. I believe that in the long-term, if stricter enforcement were to occur, even if you would get complaints as you state, some of us would be more welcoming to the change that is seen as VERY long overdue, and there would be at least *some* more integrity when it comes to buying and selling through classifieds. I also feel that when it comes to said proposed complaints, it would actually be a very small percentage of the people who use backpack.tf to buy and sell items. Most people don't even view these forums regularly, or at all, as one example. The majority of users simply go on backpack.tf to buy or sell something and nothing more. Would it not be better to try and aim for more sanitization to the classifieds, than what I personally see as a fear (whether founded or unfounded) of upsetting too many people if you made stricter regulations on classified listings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w0lk Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 This reminds me of Steamrep where it was impossible to get people marked who were in their inner circles ( GoV ) lmao. It's sad, really how mighty have this trading community has fallen. I quite honestly would not be surprised If top/rich backpacks are immune to this stuff. Then again, It's just my speculations and shit I spew, don't have to listen to what I say. 2 hours ago, Offline said: My favorite issue ending is "the report has been noted" What the fuck is that? https://backpack.tf/issue/6096c106528a0c2d0d34c372 https://backpack.tf/issue/608f52d747006e1af3555563 https://backpack.tf/issue/607f4ad3f07d655963263f05 Left open for 3 months to finish with "Noted" ?????? "noted" translation "we wont do anything about it, sorry" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple person Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 It's been shown again and again that the moderators do not care what traders with an expensive inventory do. Probably not a coincidence either that OverduePixels handled all of those reports and has now come here to defend them once again "If they continue this behavior, they will receive a ban. Thank you for your report!" So much for that, hey OverduePixels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockSolidWood Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 It leaves me braindead. No more than before, but it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh From Raw Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 The same mods who turned a blind eye as ash the owner of gladiator.tf single handedly manipulated half the elite grade miscs,hats and weapons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterBoot Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 OverduePixels seems to be the only report mod doing some work, so give him some slack. But we might need some more report mods to get some consitency and some speed with all the bigger issues My fav response: https://backpack.tf/issue/61775233f6d3c7528977396b "I will say though, the reported user is borderline on getting banned though. As a result, this report will be archived. Thank you for your report nonetheless!" Luckely people can be on the borderline forever and keep sharking. Hmm guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fr3unen Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 11 hours ago, OverduePixels said: Hiya, we are very very lenient on reports like this and we have mentioned time and time again, we are lenient on Classified report like the ones you linked. If you want stricter rules surrounding this, do not be surprised if you end up catching a ban too. So, think carefully and make sure you guys are okay with going forward with a stricter rules regarding this issue. Do not circle back about catching bans if you want to head into a stricter direction. Really? This must be one of the stupidest replies I've seen an administrator write in bp.tf. Can't even take a sliver of criticism before using the ban hammer. I understand the problem with issuing bans is that its time consuming and every report have to be reviewed individually, but please stop with these passive aggresive excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adahn Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 11 hours ago, Scott Bakula said: Think of it as getting written up at a job. Typically, disciplination goes Coaching -> Written warning -> Final Written Warning -> Termination. If somebody does something severe to go to documented warnings (or after multiple coachings, needs to be escalated), then it is on their record and future disciplinary actions will start at a higher level. However, people are given a chance to improve themselves and correct their behavior, so the reports expire after so long (typically 1 year for most jobs). Think about it, would you like to be denied a raise or promotion because of a series of attendance issues you had 3 years ago? That being said however, If a person is pushing policy to the limits, then yes, the punishment should be starting out a little more severe than a complete blank slate, but if they are truly at that point or not is more at the mod's discretion. This is a good analogy - however, I would also say that when you are looking at these processes within a workplace you also look at patterns of behaviour. DMC has been doing this for a long time, and I suspect there are many, many more issues 'hidden' from public searching as they were reported using the red flag direct on the listing. It's also no real surprise to me that this would have flared up again during an event that has popular effects, some of which people think will do very well over time. Perhaps there is a middle ground to be had, where potential timelines for warning expiry can be discussed and made explicit? I don't think many people want to make more work for community mods here, and I also don't think many people want super draconian rules that could disproportionately affect a manual trader who makes an honest mistake, but I'm sure you can see why some posters here seem exasperated when this individual has such a long record of behaving in this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 9 hours ago, LSO said: Hey guys here is my direct buy order for all nuts and bolts unusuals for 100 keys. No I don't actually have the pure and neither would I honor that if I did xx Watch as I get another forum warning within days while the joke in OP gets away Scott free over months / years. You remind of a trade bot who have a higher b/o than the rest of the bots and constantly claims that they ran out of keys to buy with even though they have like 500k on their bp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n_n Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 I hope that people putting fake buy orders are dealt with. Someone could legitimately be spending hard earned irl money to trade with confidence that someone's buy order will be honoured. When this doesn't, this can royally screw them economically and erode confidence in the backpack.tf economy. I don't think this is where we want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toad Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, n_n said: I hope that people putting fake buy orders are dealt with. Someone could legitimately be spending hard earned irl money to trade with confidence that someone's buy order will be honoured. When this doesn't, this can royally screw them economically and erode confidence in the backpack.tf economy. I don't think this is where we want to go. I've already lost money because of this due to the user's insanely high buy orders and not honoring them. It looks like all the people who have been reporting him may have experienced that or similar as well. But the mods warned him several times so he's getting the message right? Oh, wait, all those violated buy orders are still up because he doesn't give a shit. Why do we have a user who doesn't give a shit about the rules on this site? At the very least, why hasn't he been given a temp ban? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProletaryBirb Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 The fact that this specific user has been consistently evading buy orders for months and months and all he gets is a warn, is quite surprising, really makes the staff looks like clowns, specially after big shark reports taking almost an year to be reviewed just to end up being archived. "hes borderline banned" - proceeds to not ban the user and archive the report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlepudintater Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 16 hours ago, OverduePixels said: Hiya, we are very very lenient on reports like this and we have mentioned time and time again, we are lenient on Classified report like the ones you linked. If you want stricter rules surrounding this, do not be surprised if you end up catching a ban too. So, think carefully and make sure you guys are okay with going forward with a stricter rules regarding this issue. Do not circle back about catching bans if you want to head into a stricter direction. Ah yes the mature and professional response of "you want real change? Yeah you can get banned too" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toad Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 54 minutes ago, Littlepudintater said: Ah yes the mature and professional response of "you want real change? Yeah you can get banned too" Proceeds to reference me where my last report was almost 4 years ago for mistakenly trading with a scammer. Then goes to the extreme and says everyone else here would be banned. Like, what dude So either you don't ban anyone or you ban everyone? How about, IDK, something in the middle? The user in question should be on a temp ban at minimum by now -- other users in this same situation would be on perma ban status. And if he comes back from this temp ban and doesn't break a rule for 6-12 months, refresh his slate. Apply the same principle to everyone. I don't understand why this is so complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlepudintater Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Toad said: Proceeds to reference me where my last report was almost 4 years ago for mistakenly trading with a scammer. Then goes to the extreme and says everyone else here would be banned. Like, what dude? So either you don't ban anyone ever or you ban everyone over anything? How about, IDK, something in the middle? The user in question should be on a temp be at minimum by now but isn't, or is that not something we do anymore? Just wait for a staff member to reply that isn't taking your thread as a personal attack for some reason acting so childish, such a weird way to represent the site maybe you are on the ball with a staff connection to the user in question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toad Posted November 2, 2021 Author Share Posted November 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Littlepudintater said: maybe you are on the ball with a staff connection to the user in question... I genuinely never make this point because it's conspiracy and often bullshit territory, but I honestly cannot think of another rational reason. The number of reports against a user who demonstrates he doesn't care, the lack of even a temporary ban, and the weird responses by the mods on here is suspect to me. Someone even pointed out reports against mods breaking the rules and nothing happening. The fuck is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple person Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 wow what a kind soul he is ended up profiting off of him as surprisingly they kept to their word with the buy order, but yeah not a pleasure doing business Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlepudintater Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Toad said: I genuinely never make this point because it's conspiracy and often bullshit territory, but I honestly cannot think of another rational reason. The number of reports against a user who demonstrates he doesn't care, the lack of even a temporary ban, and the weird responses by the mods on here is suspect to me. Someone even pointed out reports against mods breaking the rules and nothing happening. The fuck is going on? That's legitimately not a conspiracy we've known of staff biases for a long while lmao they know their own as well. However just recently it seems a new level of laziness has rolled over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple person Posted November 2, 2021 Share Posted November 2, 2021 someone really should make a better backpack.tf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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