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Community Callout: Erik

ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy Rising Star

ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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3 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

That maybe true, but again, you are still focusing on one person here, not everyone else who is doing this?

 

 

1 hour ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

If Erik, arguably, the largest backpack on Marketplace.tf, was properly punished and items were delisted, it would have served a more than crucial lesson to the rest of the whitelist that this behaviour was unacceptable.

 

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ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy Collaborator

ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy

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3 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Sure I can totally understand this. It is after all, the basic of economics.

https://prnt.sc/xm73lz - However, if it does not abide by this rule then frankly, that new "market price" has been forcefully inflated and is completely artificial. Another user "Flappy" was kicked off the seller's program for this very matter, selling craft hats for $1+ and various other highballing.

  • It's up to Marketplace's discretion as to what is or isn't highballing and rule-breaking
    • Craft hat markets are far easier to determine that in than Unusual markets, since thousands of craft hats sell compared to at most 10s of each Unusual
3 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Of course, there isn't anybody forcing buyers at gun point to buy these items at these higher prices. But I would have expected a community run site to at least look out for its buyers and not always chase the money. Having discussed this very point with my older brother, he points out that profit maximization is a key part to any business but personally, I think if a client/buyer is happy with a price that they can negotiate down, then they are more than likely to become repeat buyers and come back again to use the service again. Realistically, the best way to counteract the inexperience of newer players who don't know that these prices are siginificantly higher on marketplace than sellers on backpack.tf is via a PSA in whatever form, be it a YouTube video, or even perhaps, a forums post.

 

For sure, I know very well that Marketplace do not have to disclose anything.

However, when I am lied to - https://imgur.com/a/naA70WM - since Marketplace did not de-list a single one of any of the examples I provided. I hold them to a lesser degree with respect, especially considering the complete lack of awareness shown by some of the members of Marketplace support. If it was about the money, then they could have just admitted it.

  • If you're calling for sellers to be removed from Marketplace, I don't see how that helps the market.
    • If the problem lies in buyers paying way more than they should, then the fault of that lies in the buyers in my opinion. If they are unable to check other sites for cheaper sellers, then removing the items from Marketplace means the buyers can't buy anything because they don't know how to find the item elsewhere.
    • High sales that occur from buyers that do know how to find cheaper sellers and decide to buy the item anyway shouldn't be an issue.
    • The seller's name and profile are listed, so buyers that know how to negotiate a price lower can simply add the seller to do so. If the item sells at a price, then the buyer was content with paying that price. Them not adding the seller or clicking the "View on Backpack.tf" button and looking at the classifieds shouldn't be the fault of the seller if there's no interaction between the buyer and seller
  • It's not that Marketplace inherently lied to you, since it's their discretion as to what is or isn't highballing
3 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:
  • I take a pretty big issue with this line of thought - "Look, it sold for x amount on the graph so it's fine to list for x amount again". Take the case of the Sparkling Lights Winter Wrap Up again. Erik paid 45 keys pure, that was just about market price, perhaps slightly above, to then relist for $119.99, which at the time, there had not been a single sale at $119.99 in the past few months and the market had generally trended downwards since it was a bit overpriced and I saw it being gambled often. This is pretty clear artificial inflation of market price. Like I said before, once you purchase at market price, you are forcing yourself to list higher to profit, which shouldn't work if it was anywhere but Marketplace
  • "comfortably sold at a higher price than market, why raise it any further?" - again, the key words here are "higher price than market". If I pay 60% for a hat and resell for 100% that's pretty standard trading. If you now pay 100% for a hat and sell them for 140%, I think there's something very very wrong with that. It might just be a shift in percentages but there's a totally different thought process behind it.
  • "it's not really highballing" - and thus we end up with this - https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30810;5;u107 - you can see the increase from $69.99 to $79.99 like magic
  • https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Taunt%3A The Skating Scorcher/Tradable/Craftable/3055 - here's another example - https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30919;5;u3055
    • March 4th - sold for $99.99
    • Apr 15th - bumps it up to $119.99, so a $20 increase here for apparently, no reason if you take a look at other sellers at the time
    • and now he's listed at $139.99, so from an initial $99.99, the price has been gouged up by a whopping $40 when there is a seller at 45 keys
  • This is just one example where Erik slowly increases a price by $5, or $10 or in this case $20, for no particular reason except from greed
  • To make revenue, sellers need sale volume. To get that volume, they need to have items, which can be done by being the highest buyer. With an outlet that typically leads to higher sales, whitelisted sellers can afford to do so. That said, if the same item is listed for cheaper elsewhere, then why not buy the item elsewhere? I don't believe that with the "View on Backpack.tf" button + the sellers' names/profiles linked for communication and negotiation, buyers are unable to find the item listed cheaper. Buyers having found Marketplace in the first place would almost always suggest they know of Backpack.tf
  • The sales at $69.99 themselves happened after the December 15th cutoff, so if sales can consistently occur there, why not try for more? Is it not the nature of a trader to seek profit? The ease at which an item sells at one price would suggest the seller could earn more profit by listing that item higher
  • Simply raising a price to see if more profit can be earned isn't illegal
3 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:
  • I'm not sure why you are taking the 10% fee off then calculating how many keys Erik can buy, by using Marketplace key prices? You should know full well that people buy keys with PayPal and if keys were around $2 at the time of the $44.99 key sale on Marketplace, then that most likely meant key prices for PayPal were ~$1.8 or so. This is the general trend. You divide Marketplace sale price by key price to get how many keys it sold for since that holds very true. The sale was 25 keys, a 7 key increase, $39.99 would have made a lot more sense
  • Fire fighter, yeah it has hype sale in September and unfortunately, bot.tf snapshots have now died so I can't find sellers at the November sale but by December, they had very clearly lowered. Again, this goes back to my point about artifically creating a margin. The $190 no longer represents market price. I haven't done any additional research but there is always the chance that it was a lucky sale that was then dumped shortly after. Especially considering the $56 later on in the graph that would indicate $190 was far too high (I did some digging, https://backpack.tf/item/9154727179 it could have been this item history, who knows)
  • Elf care, again, $100 = 50 keys, about 10 keys above market price for whatever reason. Refer back to above, marketplace.tf and backpack.tf markets should be and have always been correlated. 

Market prices should be as "fair" as possible according to Marketplace. It's not good trying to feign ignorance here because Erik would have had to buy the February and April sales and noticed that sellers were lower and should have adjusted for that.

  • There are also PayPal taxes to take into account, so even if the key price is lower, the taxes will alleviate the difference in many cases
    • Sale volume exceeding $200,000 a year is required to be reported for tax purposes, as well as an excess of 200 transactions - 
    • Currency conversion has an additional fee depending on the locations of the each currency - https://transumo.com/paypal-international-fees/
    • With the volume of sales Erik currently has, he realistically could hit the threshold at which the tax comes into play; thus, to counter that, it's understandable that his prices would be a bit higher than normal. Are the prices higher than other sellers for some hats? Sure. However, since the room for profit is still there, why not take it?
  • A $56 buy order sale doesn't discount the rest of the sales that have occurred. There were 3 sales over $180 in the 2 months prior to the $56 sale and a further 2 after.
  • Going to use DedAndrei as an example of another highballer, though via Backpack.tf
4 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:
  • Company man - $399.99 is 200 keys, why is it that you are allowed to cherrypick the instances where Erik hasn't or has gone through to update his items? Just treat the 100+ examples as a whole, there's no point in cherrypicking and saying "oh no this one he didn't meant to list that high", I never realised that I was speaking to Erik's spokepeople this entire time. I have well over 8000 buy orders across both my bots. It's my duty, and good practice to check these thoroughly (I do this on a weekly basis) and make sure that I overcut some buy orders, undercut some lower sell listings that may have appeared and perhaps, stop botting an item all together. Many other peope can list items for perfectly fine prices see:
  • Reindoonibeanie, same excuse as Company Man somehow?

 

  • I'm not cherrypicking the instances in which he didn't go through every item. I'm going through every example you've linked here.
  • As for the Reindoonibeanie, I acknowledged that the price there was high, with the only possible explanation being the same as with the Company Man in the lack of price updates on all of his items
4 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:
  • It would appear from those screenshots that Erik's gripe is towards marginal undercutting, as that behavior mimics that of scripters and bots. With the originally vast number of sellers, there was a far greater opportunity for an item to be undercut (that's the nature of a perfectly competitive market). Now that the seller base is limited, marginal undercutting is more annoying than anything. Having to update your price for a $1 change several times is more work than a $10 drop once.
4 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:
  • So for the most part, tends to be the more expensive items that are listed by scammer alts.
    • I would still expect anyone to double check the item they are purchasing regardless. I recall bringing it up at the time because I had checked the history fo a smokey sombrero on the site and Erik had expressed interest in purchasing it or had already purchased it, not sure, was a while ago, I can't get screenshots and I've just spent about 10 minutes sifting through premium trying to find the history.
  • I never said that Erik cannot check histories of items, I specified 
  • "Erik claims to not know that unusuals purchased off cs.deals are “scammer dumps”. A community admin, and a price mod, claims to not be able to use premium search to double check the item they are purchasing." - He never said this. You asked "you don't know items on csdeals are scammer dumps," not whether he could check that they were
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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

It's up to Marketplace's discretion as to what is or isn't highballing and rule-breaking

  • Craft hat markets are far easier to determine that in than Unusual markets, since thousands of craft hats sell compared to at most 10s of each Unusual

 

An issue that I've taken up with Marketplace

2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • If you're calling for sellers to be removed from Marketplace, I don't see how that helps the market.
    • If the problem lies in buyers paying way more than they should, then the fault of that lies in the buyers in my opinion. If they are unable to check other sites for cheaper sellers, then removing the items from Marketplace means the buyers can't buy anything because they don't know how to find the item elsewhere.
    • High sales that occur from buyers that do know how to find cheaper sellers and decide to buy the item anyway shouldn't be an issue.
    • The seller's name and profile are listed, so buyers that know how to negotiate a price lower can simply add the seller to do so. If the item sells at a price, then the buyer was content with paying that price. Them not adding the seller or clicking the "View on Backpack.tf" button and looking at the classifieds shouldn't be the fault of the seller if there's no interaction between the buyer and seller
  • It's not that Marketplace inherently lied to you, since it's their discretion as to what is or isn't highballing
  • I don't think I recall anywhere saying I want sellers (plural apparently) to be removed from Marketplace. If an item is de-listed for being above market price, I don't see a problem with that. I stated in the ticket that a temp-ban would have worked probably just fine, similar to how backpack punishes rule-breakers
    • I don't think it's completely fair to blame the buyers in this instance. They are the victims here, having to pay some gouged price beyond other markets they might not be aware of
      • Last time I checked, backpack.tf does not sponsor popular TF2 youtubers, nor do they have an extremely accessible interface for completely new and casual users. You have to first type in a hats name and then scroll down past the graphs with number in existence over time and then the amount that are painted to get to the sell orders and buy orders. This is akin to the "second page of Google", newer users just are going to see "hey that unusual doesn't have a price tag" and move on.
    • "High sales that occur from buyers that do know how to find cheaper sellers", this just does not happen. I've sold on Marketplace in the past (I have to clarify that sometimes because otherwise my opinion is invalidated for whatever reasons) and back when crosslisting was still a thing, people would add me up to pay in keys rather than cash because it works out to cheaper for them to get around the 10% commission that way. These tend to be a lot more experienced players/traders so they have a much higher understanding of the TF2 Trading scene
  • Perhaps for you, an extremely long time user of the site, it's quite easy to say "well they can just click "view on backpack.tf" and simples, can find other sellers"
    • I disagree with this because a lot of the time mp does not cache their bot backpacks and these item histories can be totally hidden so it's even more difficult to locate other sellers
  • I think Marketplace still lied to me, if it had been always up to their discretion, then that should've been clarified way earlier rather than put in hastily afterwards. It just feel like no quantifiable numbers/percentages above market price have been given and very little information is given to those that get banned anyways based on their other policies.
2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • To make revenue, sellers need sale volume. To get that volume, they need to have items, which can be done by being the highest buyer. With an outlet that typically leads to higher sales, whitelisted sellers can afford to do so. That said, if the same item is listed for cheaper elsewhere, then why not buy the item elsewhere? I don't believe that with the "View on Backpack.tf" button + the sellers' names/profiles linked for communication and negotiation, buyers are unable to find the item listed cheaper. Buyers having found Marketplace in the first place would almost always suggest they know of Backpack.tf
  • The sales at $69.99 themselves happened after the December 15th cutoff, so if sales can consistently occur there, why not try for more? Is it not the nature of a trader to seek profit? The ease at which an item sells at one price would suggest the seller could earn more profit by listing that item higher
  • Simply raising a price to see if more profit can be earned isn't illegal
  • I don't see how this first point is relevant at all to my initial point about creating an artifical profit margin. Again, refer back up to see the cheaper elsewhere, Little Joey who watches Uncle Dane isn't going to know squat about backpack.tf, and by the time they do, they feel like a dunce. It's now similar to those people that purchase those very high priced craft weapons from the ingame store. We don't just laugh and shame them for wasting money there, we take the time to educate them that websites like scrap.tf/backpack.tf so on and so forth exist to get items for cheaper.
  • Refer to the Taunt I gave as an example, an overall $40 bump because of small incremental increases just to test the waters means that it's now listed well over 25 keys above the seller on classifieds
  • Sure, it isn't. You can argue a lot of things that go on in TF2 "isn't illegal", after all, the IRS/HMRC/Financial institutes of the world are hardly tracking the movement of TF2 items are they.
2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

There are also PayPal taxes to take into account, so even if the key price is lower, the taxes will alleviate the difference in many cases

  • Sale volume exceeding $200,000 a year is required to be reported for tax purposes, as well as an excess of 200 transactions - 
  • Currency conversion has an additional fee depending on the locations of the each currency - https://transumo.com/paypal-international-fees/
  • With the volume of sales Erik currently has, he realistically could hit the threshold at which the tax comes into play; thus, to counter that, it's understandable that his prices would be a bit higher than normal. Are the prices higher than other sellers for some hats? Sure. However, since the room for profit is still there, why not take it?

 

  • Ah, taxes! Yes, good old taxes that have apparently, only conveniently existed now! Yes that's right, people never had to pay taxes on Marketplace prior to the whitelist but all of the sudden, it's a very very worthy reason for the unreasonable price gauging!
    • Yes I'm being overly sarcastic because I'm rather fed up of hearing this same excuse.
    • People did not think about VAT before whitelist because of competition
    • People did not think about how to accommodate for income tax in their prices because of competition
    • It's ridiculous to now say "yes prices should go up this x amount so it can cover my taxes" because it wasn't being done pre-whitelist
  • Instead, what I see is complacency, I see members of the whitelist who, most likely, do not have this $200,000 sales volume in one year, listing at the same highball prices and then it just devolves back into an unjustified profit
  • I've only just turned 18 last year, that's why my cash trading was at a height in the last 4 months of Marketplace since I could legally do all that. I haven't had to pay taxes yet because I haven't earned enough. I can't claim to understand how taxes work but given I have a background in accountancy, I'm pretty sure for those claiming taxes is huge deal now, why on earth was it not a huge deal when you sold on Marketplace pre whitelist? Someone with Erik's size, who was ~100,000 keys inv size at December 2020, would most definitely have broken the $200,000 sales volume in a previous year. I can't stand this reason being thrown around like it's a "gotcha". Indeed, some people don't pay taxes, since Marketplace whitelisted a lot of new sellers that have relatively speaking, much smaller backpacks than the big boys and girls on the old whitelist.
  • Currency conversion is an argument I've also heard a lot. I don't understand this either. I live in the UK (Trying to not doxx myself here), and I get slapped with a fat PayPal exchange rate fee when converting USD to GBP to withdraw. I used to be able to get around this with Transferwise but that avenue has since shut down due to a 3% fee being tacked on to any withdrawals I make to that account.
    • When you cash trade, you trade in USD. That's common sense, it's the most used currency in TF2 and that holds true. So if you receive USD from Marketplace, there is maximum a $5 to $10 fee when you cash trade with someone else. If the other person on the other end of the trade has to receive less money because they get fucked over by fees, tough. That's how it's always been. My cash rep is over $10,000. My depth of knowledge into PayPal and crypto have been honed since 2018 and you can very often see me giving advice about cash trading within backpack.tf, gladiator.tf and marketplace.tf discords. This is knowledge that I am always more than willing to impart because I learned the hard way and crunched the number the right way to minimise the loss of funds to fees. Currency conversion is a totally bogus point because you can open a USD Balance in your PayPal so PayPal doesn't automatically convert your Marketplace payout into GBP/EUR/AUD and snap up a healthy fee.
  • I've already argued enough about the Fire Fighter, especially about what other sellers were listed at building up to each $180 sale after the $56 dump and closure of Marketplace to the general public, I don't think I need to delve much further into that
2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

While Backpack doesn't have a rule against highballing, the principle still holds. If there isn't an issue with someone listing their item for higher with sellers for less and being unable to sell the item, why should there be when the item sells? Sure, Marketplace doesn't have the same availability for lower sellers to pop up, but I've already mentioned how it's not difficult to find lower sellers on other sites

  • You're right, backpack does not have a rule against highballing. You can speak principlies all you wish but backpack does not have a rule against highballing. Marketplace is a service that claims to want "fair" prices yet still allows the highballing.
2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

It would appear from those screenshots that Erik's gripe is towards marginal undercutting, as that behavior mimics that of scripters and bots. With the originally vast number of sellers, there was a far greater opportunity for an item to be undercut (that's the nature of a perfectly competitive market). Now that the seller base is limited, marginal undercutting is more annoying than anything. Having to update your price for a $1 change several times is more work than a $10 drop once.

  • In most cases with Erik's unusuals, he gets undercut by $10 plus. I can attest to this because I've sent many unusuals to a few whitelisted friends to ask them to undercut down to a fairer market price and more often than not, Erik will undercut them right back instead of matching. Again I'll reiterate my point. For someone who claims to find marginal undercutting irritating, and perhaps by extension, any undercutting annoying, why go so far to be so vindictive?
2 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

"Erik claims to not know that unusuals purchased off cs.deals are “scammer dumps”. A community admin, and a price mod, claims to not be able to use premium search to double check the item they are purchasing." - He never said this. You asked "you don't know items on csdeals are scammer dumps," not whether he could check that they were

  • There was probably more context, again, I'm banned from TTA, can't help you with that one. As listed prior, a considerable amount of unusuals on the site are scammer dumps. And even then, before purchasing an item off a cash site once you are as experienced as Erik would be, you would most certainly check if it was duped in case, or if it was a scammer alt. This is the same reason why people within this community don't use/support mannco.store because it has such a negative reputation regarding scammers using their website to cash out and more. Csdeals also has a similar reputation so I don't understand why that point required retorting.

That's about it, if you wish to chat more about this, I'm more than down to chat in discord DMs since I imagine this spams up the forums post a lot.

 

Thanks again for your time

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4 hours ago, « SɱokEy » said:

and you already got your response to your ticket iirc

meanwhile @colinlexxxx' ticket about scripters has almost been unresponded to for a year now, and mine for 3 months.

Pretty sure in their FAQ they state it can take up to 24 hours lmao

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Pretty much, anyone should be able to list their items for whatever price they want, I dont disagree with this at all. However it is extremely hypocritical for this person to be doing this as an admin when people have been punished for doing the same thing. Its not a free market, it has a barrier to entry which allows people to artifically inflate prices with no competition to undercut them but thats not the point, listing their items for whatever price they want would be fine if there wasnt a term specifying the opposite. We also cant pretend we dont know the real prices of these items are and what a fair price is. I heard some people got harassed when they would undercut other sellers, I think most people are afraid to undercut or speak out against this behaviour because they are afraid they will lose their golden ticket to sell so it just creates a negative enviroment. 

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Also isn't Erik the guy buying off people banned from the site he's supposed to be on the staff of?
bp.tf hasn't been a trustworthy site ever since the trading with scammers loophole had a train run through it.

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11 hours ago, HaloGAMER0329 said:

Pretty much, anyone should be able to list their items for whatever price they want, I dont disagree with this at all. However it is extremely hypocritical for this person to be doing this as an admin when people have been punished for doing the same thing. Its not a free market, it has a barrier to entry which allows people to artifically inflate prices with no competition to undercut them but thats not the point, listing their items for whatever price they want would be fine if there wasnt a term specifying the opposite. We also cant pretend we dont know the real prices of these items are and what a fair price is. I heard some people got harassed when they would undercut other sellers, I think most people are afraid to undercut or speak out against this behaviour because they are afraid they will lose their golden ticket to sell so it just creates a negative enviroment. 

 

I agree with this, but it's the fault of marketplace. They need to apply their own rules more consistently or drops rules they don't plan to enforce. Dumping the blame on one individual seller is just silly.

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4 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

 

I agree with this, but it's the fault of marketplace. They need to apply their own rules more consistently or drops rules they don't plan to enforce. Dumping the blame on one individual seller is just silly.


For the pricing issue yes, but for the allegations of price coordinating and pressuring others into “matching” prices, that’s an Erik issue. 
 

I do hope @ajdislikesyournamingpolicy or others who have said similar things release this information. It’s important that it comes to light if in fact this has happened. 

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Strife Hale Rising Star

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Why would someone make a discord group that can show alerts in the first place? What if you missed to include 1 in 13 when your listing an unusual for sale? I've had this situation once. However, I removed my listing immediately and relisted it with a correction that went good but you know, I've found some idiot that sent an offer already within a min mentioning "thanks for free unusual haha" and some smileys wtf?. I believe this should be banned from checking and manipulating just for profits jesus christ. 

 

Removed the post about witch hunting as this is only going to our personal issues. Thanks sin.

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www. Newbie

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in just in case OP or any of those sharing claims decide to share actual evidence beyond price listings re: whitelist etiquette and personal friction between OP and erik, pretty much a fuckall scattershot about a completely fair and independent whitelist system and a discord that used to be poorly moderated otherwise

 

also this thread is spent whining so hard about mptf and why they whitelist/favorite bptf staff. both sites are owned by scrap and bptf staff revenue is driven mainly on donations. nothing wrong with giving staff a means to cash that out safely if owners have the resource for it. erik's also a massive trader who moves revenue for the site. kick and scream all you want about that, ive tried explaining in the discord long ago.

 

because of it being such a cross examined word dump that does the reader no favors in terms of sticking to a single topic I'm gonna call this post manipulative and hold OP responsible as such at least until there's a competent level of not only evidence, but ownership on your end as well to share how you've managed to interact with this user over time (before they blocked you)

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ѕιи Enthusiast

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I think you're conflicting your personal feelings and issues with Erik with your issues with how the Marketplace whitelist has been handled, and because of this I'm not even entirely sure as to what this thread is actually about. Are you discussing your issues with the marketplace whitelist or with Erik himself? And why are these two topics of discussion even in the same thread?

 

Chapter 1: I honestly don't even know why this was brought up, nor how this is 100% Erik's fault. The server has 6 other moderators/administrators, and in your explanation of the situation you've not once mentioned ever contacting any of these people reporting toxic users for breaking the TTA discord's rules. Servers with poor moderation can be fixed relatively easily, but regardless, I don't think this is at all relevant to either of these topics of discussion.

 

Chapter 2: Like I said before, I don't think the issues with the marketplace whitelist should've been made in the same post as your issues with Erik, but I'll address these anyways.

 

Yes, I agree that the communication from Marketplace.tf staff about the rules regarding undercutting, highballing, and other things related to their whitelist are incredibly incoherent and poorly explained, to say the least. However, I don't even understand how we can all agree on that and then continue to use our personal understanding of said poorly communicated rules as a way of determining whether or not Erik (or anyone really) is breaking their rules. Do marketplace whitelisted sellers have the freedom to list their items for sale at whatever price they desire? Yes, but to an apparent extent. What extent? That's yet to be determined, and that's why this discussion will ultimately prove to be fruitless until their rules are clarified.

 

That being said, if Erik is overpricing his unusuals then that only comes at a detriment to him. If his items were overpriced, no one would buy them. Unusuals are luxury goods, not necessities, and the market value of an unusual is defined as what an item can sell for. Backpack.tf unusual prices are estimates, and have been since the creation of this project. Additionally, you have to take various fees like currency conversion and the standard 10% fee into consideration when looking at this type of stuff, but that's still a moot point until marketplace staff clarify their rules on what they want for the whitelist program.

 

Lastly: This has been said previously, but I'll just go ahead and say it again. Blaming issues with the marketplace whitelist solely on Erik will not accomplish what you want it to. Neither will constantly belittling marketplace support staff in their own server. Have you been mistreated and baited by marketplace and our own staff? Yes, and as said previously we've already had this conversation with our own staff members involved.

 

That said, it's insanely disingenuous to pretend or glaze over the fact that you've have your fair share of toxic moments yourself. I don't think the original personal issues you have with Erik are that big a deal, but by allowing everything to snowball and then lumping issues with the whitelist along with your personal feelings about him, I think this has turned into something way bigger than it actually is.

 

I think your concerns with the marketplace whitelist and how it's affected TF2 trading are valid, but I think you're grossly inflating your personal issues with Erik (and vice versa) because of the issues with the whitelist and how you've both been reacting to each other's baiting.

 

If I missed anything, it's likely because it's already been discussed or simply because I couldn't see it.

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rndmchrs Enthusiast

rndmchrs

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10 hours ago, Hale said:

Why would someone make a discord group that can show alerts in the first place? What if you missed to include 1 in 13 when your listing an unusual for sale? I've had this situation once. However, I removed my listing immediately and relisted it with a correction that went good but you know, I've found some idiot that sent an offer already within a min mentioning "thanks for free unusual haha" and some smileys wtf?. I believe this should be banned from checking and manipulating just for profits jesus christ.

Those alerts weren't for mispriced items, they were for generally good deals which are resellable on marketplace, maybe get your facts right please.

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Slam Mentor

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On 6/13/2021 at 10:20 AM, « SɱokEy » said:

 don't think it's right to focus on 1 person when others are also doing the same

On 6/14/2021 at 5:28 AM, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

Dumping the blame on one individual seller is just silly.

11 hours ago, ѕιи said:

Blaming issues with the marketplace whitelist solely on Erik will not accomplish what you want it to.

On 6/12/2021 at 8:41 PM, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

I don't think either one of you is solely to blame here.

 

Pretty sure the entire point is that Erik is a long-time price moderator (a position which they know more about accurately pricing of items than most anyone else) of backpack.tf, which is meant to be a distinguished community which doesn't tolerate bad trading behavior or trading actions which bring harm to the economy. All of you are just coming in to say "leave Erik alone this isn't his fault!", thus you're missing the point of the OP. From what I've gathered, these practices are harmful to buyers and the trading community, and a staff member of your community, who is a price moderator at that, shouldn't be ignored in this situation. Thus, this thread is to "callout" Erik for joining in in this malicious practice of abusing marketplace's whitelist, a person who should care more about maintaining a clear image so you don't have essay-long threads being made about him in the first place.

 

Correct me if I'm getting something totally wrong here (@aj), but the title of this thread is "Community Callout: Erik", not "Community Callout: Marketplace sellers abusing the whitelist", if the point of this post was to complain about marketplace sellers in general then that would be the greater focus of this thread, and AJ would have far more data and proof to support this claim, but this thread is about Erik, not the entire Marketplace.tf whitelist.

 

Whether Erik can be held accountable or not isn't an answer I have, obviously marketplace is a different website than backpack.tf, and Erik has no power over there other than, of course, being on the whitelist, but just because everyone else is partaking in these malicious practices doesn't mean that a well known staff member of backpack.tf, who 100% knows what they're doing, should get a free pass for participating.

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I don't consider them malicious practices. People can price their stuff however they want, it's a free market. If it's too high, people won't buy it. If he's breaking rules, that's for marketplace to enforce... they're being inconsistent on that, and it's unfortunate and, I understand, frustrating, but the fact is they said they won't apply this rule to unusuals so... what rule is he breaking? None, by their own support staff's words. If you have an issue with what he's doing being allowed, complain about marketplace, not about him. Personally, I see no issue with his pricing. My only issue with Erik in this is the lack of understanding he has demonstrated about why people are frustrated with the situation, and the fact that he's baited AJ in several instances. Those things are not ok behaviour for a moderator, and I have made this clear to him. His pricing, however, is up to him.

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Zeckatz Rookie

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This feels like a rivalry between u and erik, both of u REALLY like flexing specially in #trade-discussion, and i know u from all that flexing, posted like 20 trades a day talking about how big of a profit u made. Erik did that too, with his mp.tf trades.
Doesn't seem much different to me.

 

If im selling an unusual hat that has no current seller in bp I list it for whatever the fuck i want, and if someone wants to buy it from me for 100 keys when bp price is 20k am i to blame here? rich ppl are wired, if they want to pay more instead of doing some research or negotiation its not my fault, im not manipulating them into buying it for that price.

 

I think ur suffering with a feeling called "jalousie", u don't like how some lucky ppl got into mp and making shit ton of profit, how they flex their dirty money.

u do a bit of mini mod-ing in price suggestions which makes me think ur trying to become a price mod and get a bit near ur rival..........?

 

I know Erik is not really a good person and he is a bully, not for undercutting tho, for other behavior
But thats not the main subject is it? most of ur issue (that ur talking about here) is with mp.tf and Erik doesn't own mp.tf (yet)

 

I'm not whitelisted on mp.tf but if i was i would like to have the ability to list my unusuals for what i want, like i can in bp.tf.

I didn't read every sentence of ur essay cuz it has so many unnecessary shit, no offence
i also ignored most of the replies so sorry if i repeated.

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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy Rising Star

ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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Alrighty, lots of responses and I've just got home from work.

I'll deal with the easy ones first and also the ones that are off topic.

 

Zeckatz:

2 hours ago, Zeckatz said:

This feels like a rivalry between u and erik, both of u REALLY like flexing specially in #trade-discussion, and i know u from all that flexing, posted like 20 trades a day talking about how big of a profit u made. Erik did that too, with his mp.tf trades.
Doesn't seem much different to me.

I'm going to need more proof about these 20 trades a day thanks.

The place I post most of my trades that I choose to post are in gladiator.tf discord's #profits channel since that's its purpose

 

2 hours ago, Zeckatz said:

If im selling an unusual hat that has no current seller in bp I list it for whatever the fuck i want, and if someone wants to buy it from me for 100 keys when bp price is 20k am i to blame here? rich ppl are wired, if they want to pay more instead of doing some research or negotiation its not my fault, im not manipulating them into buying it for that price.

 

Yeah, on backpack. That's fine. This is marketplace, 2 totally different contexts.

 

2 hours ago, Zeckatz said:

I think ur suffering with a feeling called "jalousie", u don't like how some lucky ppl got into mp and making shit ton of profit, how they flex their dirty money.

u do a bit of mini mod-ing in price suggestions which makes me think ur trying to become a price mod and get a bit near ur rival..........?

I've stated in the past and continue to this day that I have no interest in the whitelist whatsoever. I make perfectly fine profit as is. That's not relevant to this post but I'll entertain you. 

 

I leave comments on price suggestions where I see fit to impart the knowledge and experience I have gained over the years. That is the community I want to be a part of, where people learn and teach each other, regardless of experience level. I don't particularly see why me leaving comments is correlated to price mod application? I won't deny that I've expressed interest in the past but given how tensions have been, safe to say I'd prefer to keep suggesting since I enjoy it.

 

2 hours ago, Zeckatz said:

I didn't read every sentence of ur essay cuz it has so many unnecessary shit, no offence

That's cool

 

2 hours ago, Zeckatz said:

i also ignored most of the replies so sorry if i repeated.

All good, no one else had as bad a take as you did

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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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www:

 

On 6/14/2021 at 9:49 PM, www. said:

in just in case OP or any of those sharing claims decide to share actual evidence beyond price listings re: whitelist etiquette and personal friction between OP and erik, pretty much a fuckall scattershot about a completely fair and independent whitelist system and a discord that used to be poorly moderated otherwise

 

Whitelist etiquette:

https://imgur.com/a/QXQr10c - Screenshot as requested.

I'm actually going to dm you some more sensitive screenshots since I refuse to jeopardise any of my friends currently on the whitelist within those screenshots.

I'll leave this here though

https://marketplace.tf/blog/posts/IXVXYA

"We have witnessed groups of people attempt to manipulate the market by bullying and harassing others into changing their prices." - https://prnt.sc/15ix8q5 - screenshot for the sake of precaution

 

But yeah, you'll see in the screenshots later.

 

Personal friction with Erik:

I guess me being blocked on discord isn't enough evidence.

Here's a couple recent events that have come to my attention:

https://gyazo.com/26f3412735b35dc911f19acd5f1ddbcb - Zeus asking Erik to stop making comments about me in the TTA discord. I haven't really seen too many of those comments but here's a few of them

Removed this link after being reached out to by Okmeis, but it was a joke made in bad taste- Pretty cool vibes, I would also like to point out that I reached out to some of these people on discord to "make amends" if you wish since I primarily take issue with Erik and don't understand the rest of the hate I sometimes get

Here's a reply I got from Okmeis - and deleted upon Okmeis request

Here's a reply I got from Floofy who was just being a very floofy boi - https://prnt.sc/15j14no

https://imgur.com/a/sE1rlO2 - I have yet to get a reply back from Mindacos

https://imgur.com/a/dwGWhEs - I don't know the context of this, I don't particularly have any opinion on being whitelisted or not

https://imgur.com/a/pmBBR5Z - The context to this was that I had blocked a few more people that Erik used to buy stuff off my bot with. "copy your strats" isn't accurate since I made profit and sold on Marketplace back in 2018 off my own 2 feet. I don't recall saying anything bad about geel, pretty sure I agreed with his decision earlier on in this forums post. He got the "erik bad" right though

 

Idk, there's plenty of screenshots in previous replies that I've had regarding my bad relationship with Erik.

Here's the last dms I shared:

https://prnt.sc/15j1o7v
I thought I may as well let him know that the item would get delisted if I couldn't resolve the pricing issue between myself and Erik. He didn't really say anything but lowered from $699.99 to $599.99 and then promptly blocked me.

 

https://imgur.com/a/lqMJyYJ - There's the earlier screenshots from the initial post of our DMs after I blocked Erik.

Again, I'll repeat myself that he publicly pinged me in TTA knowing full well how the general reaction would be from those active. 

Continues to attack me for sending deals to whitelisted friends of mine, despite them being listed at market prices.

 

On 6/14/2021 at 9:49 PM, www. said:

also this thread is spent whining so hard about mptf and why they whitelist/favorite bptf staff. both sites are owned by scrap and bptf staff revenue is driven mainly on donations. nothing wrong with giving staff a means to cash that out safely if owners have the resource for it. erik's also a massive trader who moves revenue for the site. kick and scream all you want about that, ive tried explaining in the discord long ago.

 

I don't think I said anywhere that mp favorities bptf staff, Teeny and Beaser raised issues with that.

Sure, there is nothing wrong with giving staff a way to cash out safely. Greedily marking up prices, well that's a separate issue.

And yes, Erik is a big trader that earns MP a lot of commission. If MP wanted to be honest with me, they could give that as a reason as to why they can't delist 100 of his 1500 unusuals and ask for fairer prices.

Please link your explanation from the discord, I'd be delighted to read it.

 

On 6/14/2021 at 9:49 PM, www. said:

because of it being such a cross examined word dump that does the reader no favors in terms of sticking to a single topic I'm gonna call this post manipulative and hold OP responsible as such at least until there's a competent level of not only evidence, but ownership on your end as well to share how you've managed to interact with this user over time (before they blocked you)

Not quite sure where the post is manipulative.

Evidence, I think there's a lot.

And interaction with Erik is honestly to a bare minimum. Most clashes before being blocked where whitelist related.

 

That's about all I got for you, thanks and I'll dm the screenshots after you've finished reading this and dmed me asking 👍

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Zeckatz Rookie

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1 hour ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

I'm going to need more proof about these 20 trades a day thanks.

Sorry for not saying the exact number of trades per day 😂

You seem to have stopped doing it in the recent months but if u go back, u can check how many screenshots u posted of ur and ur bots trades. 20 was a joke because if u made 20 trades everyday u would have #1 bp by now.

 

2 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Yeah, on backpack. That's fine. This is marketplace, 2 totally different contexts.

Why is it right to list something in bp for whatever u want and wrong if u list it in mp? before dec 15, nobody had any issue with it?
I remember buying unusual war paints and listing them for stupid price, nobody had an issue with it being right or wrong.

 

2 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

I've stated in the past and continue to this day that I have no interest in the whitelist whatsoever. I make perfectly fine profit as is. That's not relevant to this post but I'll entertain you.

Ah, yes, ur arguing about this for months because u don't want to let the trading economy die for the 100th time (random number i picked)

 

2 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

All good, no one else had as bad a take as you did

 

2 hours ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

That's cool

wow man u wouldn't give me that 3rd degree burn if that was cool 😭

I wasn't being professional so I'll quote some replies that says what I meant to say

18 hours ago, ѕιи said:

I think you're conflicting your personal feelings and issues with Erik

 

6 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

People can price their stuff however they want, it's a free market. If it's too high, people won't buy it.

 

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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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17 hours ago, ѕιи said:

I think you're conflicting your personal feelings and issues with Erik with your issues with how the Marketplace whitelist has been handled, and because of this I'm not even entirely sure as to what this thread is actually about. Are you discussing your issues with the marketplace whitelist or with Erik himself? And why are these two topics of discussion even in the same thread?

 

Honestly, with hindsight, I imagine that if I first called out Marketplace with their favoritism, various other reasons given by Teeny and other mod responses, and then used Erik as an example of the type of behaviour they are enabling, we might be having a totally different conversation right now.

 

I just felt that the entire Marketplace situation made up a lot of the friction between myself and Erik that it was necessary to expand into it a bit, apologies if it split the thread into too many different topics.

 

17 hours ago, ѕιи said:

Chapter 1: I honestly don't even know why this was brought up, nor how this is 100% Erik's fault. The server has 6 other moderators/administrators, and in your explanation of the situation you've not once mentioned ever contacting any of these people reporting toxic users for breaking the TTA discord's rules. Servers with poor moderation can be fixed relatively easily, but regardless, I don't think this is at all relevant to either of these topics of discussion.

 

It just felt ironic given this - https://prnt.sc/15j44dj

But understood

 

17 hours ago, ѕιи said:

That being said, if Erik is overpricing his unusuals then that only comes at a detriment to him. If his items were overpriced, no one would buy them. Unusuals are luxury goods, not necessities, and the market value of an unusual is defined as what an item can sell for. Backpack.tf unusual prices are estimates, and have been since the creation of this project.

If I were to make a price suggestion on a new Winter 2020 unusual, suffice to say I can't make one to represent market price on Marketplace.tf as well as one on backpack.tf?

I take issue with that, there is no coherency between values simply because they've been marked up. And then it also calls into question the validity of purchases Erik makes.

If a taunt has 5 sales at 20 keys, and then a pure sale at 25 keys by Erik and that resells for $80. Then quite clearly, 25 did not naturally sell and was flipped for double the rest of the sales.

I get that backpack.tf unusual prices are estimates, but to have an error range of 150%+ on a recent price suggestion has never been seen before at all.

 

17 hours ago, ѕιи said:

Additionally, you have to take various fees like currency conversion and the standard 10% fee into consideration when looking at this type of stuff

I already responded to this in my recent reply to Shuffle. Currency conversion is moot, the 10% fee always existed.

 

17 hours ago, ѕιи said:

This has been said previously, but I'll just go ahead and say it again. Blaming issues with the marketplace whitelist solely on Erik will not accomplish what you want it to. Neither will constantly belittling marketplace support staff in their own server. Have you been mistreated and baited by marketplace and our own staff? Yes, and as said previously we've already had this conversation with our own staff members involved.

Erik is a very large inventory on Marketplace. If what he does is glossed over, then other smaller inventories will copy, which we have seen happen in a lot of cases where sellers choose to match instead of seek out market value. Erik has a huge influence on the unusuals on marketplace. To say otherwise would be rather naive. Sure, Erik isn't the sole perpetrator, but he is a major contributor to how far it has spiralled out of control.

 

I'm going to need the proof of constantly belittling marketplace support.

I had my argument with Chicken and said my piece then. Given how I was treated, I don't think my anger at the time was completely unjustified.

https://discord.com/channels/390911223081861121/403655723319558184/839813984235945994 - when I go back in my message history in the Marketplace discord, I find this small spit with Chicken.

https://prnt.sc/15j6arm - Here is excerpt

https://prnt.sc/15j6eja - Here is more

 

Here's something a little more recent:

https://prnt.sc/15j6kty

I asked for a formal response in the ticket which I actually ended up getting after 4 months which was cool, but also misguided.

Not so sure about the belittling, I just highlighted the key points that were already raised within my ticket

 

18 hours ago, ѕιи said:

That said, it's insanely disingenuous to pretend or glaze over the fact that you've have your fair share of toxic moments yourself. I don't think the original personal issues you have with Erik are that big a deal, but by allowing everything to snowball and then lumping issues with the whitelist along with your personal feelings about him, I think this has turned into something way bigger than it actually is.

 

As I've said previously, I'm not absolved from any of the toxic moments I have had.

The original personal issues involve a lot about the whitelist, I'm not in TTA, it's tough to go back and check chatlogs. But there were many times where I was slighted for having a different opinion to Erik, regardless of the topic. I take a bigger issue with the way Erik used TTA as mob mentality against anyone that disagreed with him, as shown in the gamey screenshot earlier.

 

Perhaps it has turned out larger than it initially was. Maybe that's due to other people being affected by similar situations to mine. To me, it always felt this large since I knew picking a fight with a community admin would probably be to my detriment.

 

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On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Honestly, with hindsight, I imagine that if I first called out Marketplace with their favoritism, various other reasons given by Teeny and other mod responses, and then used Erik as an example of the type of behaviour they are enabling, we might be having a totally different conversation right now.

 

Which is why I said I think you're conflicting your personal grievances with Erik with your issues with the marketplace whitelist, and I think there's parts of this situation that you're not thinking about rationally because of it.

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

If I were to make a price suggestion on a new Winter 2020 unusual, suffice to say I can't make one to represent market price on Marketplace.tf as well as one on backpack.tf?

I take issue with that, there is no coherency between values simply because they've been marked up. And then it also calls into question the validity of purchases Erik makes.

If a taunt has 5 sales at 20 keys, and then a pure sale at 25 keys by Erik and that resells for $80. Then quite clearly, 25 did not naturally sell and was flipped for double the rest of the sales.

I get that backpack.tf unusual prices are estimates, but to have an error range of 150%+ on a recent price suggestion has never been seen before at all.

 

On 6/14/2021 at 8:55 PM, ѕιи said:

That being said, if Erik is overpricing his unusuals then that only comes at a detriment to him. If his items were overpriced, no one would buy them. Unusuals are luxury goods, not necessities, and the market value of an unusual is defined as what an item can sell for.

 

If a taunt has 5 sales at 20 keys, then a pure sale at 25 which gets flipped for $80, that could mean multiple things:

1) 1 sale is an outlier

2) the 20 key sales are older and no longer represent the current market as accurately as an $80 sale.

3) the reverse of #2

4) depending on the circumstances of the $80 sale (how fast it sold, etc.), the median of that range could be considered the most accurate way to estimate its price.

 

Situations like these aren't as black and white, which is part of the reason why price suggestions aren't automated, they're left up for weeks, etc.

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Erik is a very large inventory on Marketplace. If what he does is glossed over, then other smaller inventories will copy, which we have seen happen in a lot of cases where sellers choose to match instead of seek out market value. Erik has a huge influence on the unusuals on marketplace. To say otherwise would be rather naive. Sure, Erik isn't the sole perpetrator, but he is a major contributor to how far it has spiralled out of control.

 

Except (apparently, only noticed now) it wasn't glossed over.

WcjEetV.png

 

Marketplace staff quite clearly said: "We have contacted and verbally warned the seller regarding their other item pricing. With regard to unusuals, unfortunately we cannot accurately keep track of current market price for each unusual in the game"

 

I went into this thinking they weren't communicating properly, but they quite clearly told you that they can't moderate unusual pricing because:

 

1) There's too many unusuals that exist to keep track of

2) The pricing of unusuals is too volatile to keep up with

 

wn8DzYY7CMgLbkSAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC.png

 

And they even gave you a response stating their solution to this issue:

3) Expanding the whitelist so there's more competitive pricing on the site.

 

And as for this:

On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

If what he does is glossed over, then other smaller inventories will copy, which we have seen happen in a lot of cases where sellers choose to match instead of seek out market value.

 

I digress to my first point.

On 6/14/2021 at 8:55 PM, ѕιи said:

That being said, if Erik is overpricing his unusuals then that only comes at a detriment to him. If his items were overpriced, no one would buy them. Unusuals are luxury goods, not necessities, and the market value of an unusual is defined as what an item can sell for.

 

and the somehow overlooked ability to negotiate on a lower price.

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

I'm going to need the proof of constantly belittling marketplace support.

I had my argument with Chicken and said my piece then. Given how I was treated, I don't think my anger at the time was completely unjustified.

https://discord.com/channels/390911223081861121/403655723319558184/839813984235945994 - when I go back in my message history in the Marketplace discord, I find this small spit with Chicken.

https://prnt.sc/15j6arm - Here is excerpt

https://prnt.sc/15j6eja - Here is more

 

Here's something a little more recent:

https://prnt.sc/15j6kty

I asked for a formal response in the ticket which I actually ended up getting after 4 months which was cool, but also misguided.

Not so sure about the belittling, I just highlighted the key points that were already raised within my ticket

 

I mean you've provided all the instances I saw of you antagonizing them. Saying you simply highlighted points in your ticket is pretty disingenuous. Couple that with the toxicity and baiting you've thrown in Erik's direction (which wasn't one-sided) and I don't really know what else you want me to say about this. Being frustrated can be an explanation but it can't be an excuse for your behavior, and the same applies for everyone else involved.

 

Regardless, I've said enough about everyone's behavior regarding this so I'm not going to keep repeating the same points over and over.

 

On 6/15/2021 at 3:08 PM, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

The original personal issues involve a lot about the whitelist, I'm not in TTA, it's tough to go back and check chatlogs. But there were many times where I was slighted for having a different opinion to Erik, regardless of the topic. I take a bigger issue with the way Erik used TTA as mob mentality against anyone that disagreed with him, as shown in the gamey screenshot earlier.

 

I still believe these to be a combination of your personal issues with each other & the lack of proper moderation from TTA discord moderators. That + there being no screenshots of this = no context, I think it's better to not address that. Unsure of what the "gamey screenshot" is earlier so I won't bother with that either.

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ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

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On 6/16/2021 at 4:02 AM, ѕιи said:

Which is why I said I think you're conflicting your personal grievances with Erik with your issues with the marketplace whitelist, and I think there's parts of this situation that you're not thinking about rationally because of it.

 

As I said previously, hindsight is indeed 20/20. I won't disagree that my personal issues with Erik are mixing with my feelings about Marketplace. I would like to think I'm in a pretty rational state of mind when I have talked about the various issues I've highlighted. If I had originally called out Marketplace for their various fallacies, then I have not a shred of doubt this would be a different conversation. That being said, I wouldn't have been exposed to this many varying opinions if I had gone that route since many people choose to lurk if the substance of a post is somewhat in line with how they feel about the situation. It's only when something is conflicting opinion wise that someone will speak up about it so I think the forums post served its purpose, at least, the purpose I didn't realise it needed to serve until now.

 

Thanks again for the rest of the comments

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