Jump to content

Community Callout: Erik


ajdislikesyournamingpolicy

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

 

They can have an estimated worth, but it can also change. People are free to list things as high as they want to, if people don't wanna pay it they won't pay it. If they do wanna pay it, well... that's what it's worth?

If you see things like this then fine, agree to disagree I suppose

 

But I see this as no different than alex listing craft hats for 40c, should I make a price suggestion for the kathman at 14ref just because they've been getting sold for that much on mp?

In the context of a price suggestion I dont think any of his winter 2020 sales could be used, besides 1:1 stuff.

I don't consider this to be an ethical practice and a price moderator such as erik should know better of all people.

 

People trust marketplace and to see this trust that has been built up over the years being abused like that makes me feel extremely disappointed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Administrators
Just now, Moder112 said:

If you see things like this then fine, agree to disagree I suppose

 

But I see this as no different than alex listing craft hats for 40c, should I make a price suggestion for the kathman at 14ref just because they've been getting sold for that much on mp?

In the context of a price suggestion I dont think any of his winter 2020 sales could be used, besides 1:1 stuff.

I don't consider this to be an ethical practice and a price moderator such as erik should know better of all people.

 

People trust marketplace and to see this trust that has been built up over the years being abused like that makes me feel extremely disappointed.

 

I don't think it's ethical or fair that marketplace whitelisted people who happen to have positions of power in the community. I don't blame the people who happen to be in those positions for that. I blame marketplace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators

It's shitty and unfair and bad for buyers and bad for sellers who didn't make the whitelist through no fault of their own. But... that isn't Erik's fault? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew unusuals were big money but I never knew to what extent some people would go for profits. This also explained why craft hats were so expensive on mp sometimes. The whitelist is partly to blame here as it allows such behavior, but if it weren't for the whitelist, scamming on mp would become quite common as well as other problems, I'd say that the whitelist is a gray zone as it prevented certain problems but now caused new ones like highbailing and etc. Because I'm new to trading I might have a distorted view of the whole situation due to my inexperience so take this with a grain of salt. But until some decent new trading site with money opens, I'm just gonna stick with my civilian grade stat clocks and craft hats and work my way to the top that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anybody who thought that a manufactured oligopoly situation wasn't going to result in cronyism is seriously on crack. There's a reason the majority of free-market economies reign in anticompetitive behavior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the lengthy response Shuffle.

I'd also like to take some time to respond to some of the points you've made.

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

If items sell for $1, does that not signify its market price? The market price on Marketplace may be different from the price on Backpack, but that still can be considered the item's market price

Sure I can totally understand this. It is after all, the basic of economics.

https://prnt.sc/xm73lz - However, if it does not abide by this rule then frankly, that new "market price" has been forcefully inflated and is completely artificial. Another user "Flappy" was kicked off the seller's program for this very matter, selling craft hats for $1+ and various other highballing.

 

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

Nobody is required to pay the prices items are listed at. There are other cash sites that items can be listed on. If there are concerns about the legitimacy and safety of those other sites, then that would yield a security premium that buyers are willing to pay for items listed on Marketplace. Similar premiums can arise for other reasons (ease of use, reputation, etc.)

  • To utilize Economics jargon, TF2 items are luxury goods, not essential goods. Even if someone were to possess a monopoly in an item's market, nobody is required to pay that price, and the economy wouldn't be ruined as a result
  • Supply and demand would also assist in dictating an item's market price - with the closure of the seller program to most users, the supply drastically decreased, hence the market price should, in theory, increase, even if demand remains fixed

Of course, there isn't anybody forcing buyers at gun point to buy these items at these higher prices. But I would have expected a community run site to at least look out for its buyers and not always chase the money. Having discussed this very point with my older brother, he points out that profit maximization is a key part to any business but personally, I think if a client/buyer is happy with a price that they can negotiate down, then they are more than likely to become repeat buyers and come back again to use the service again. Realistically, the best way to counteract the inexperience of newer players who don't know that these prices are siginificantly higher on marketplace than sellers on backpack.tf is via a PSA in whatever form, be it a YouTube video, or even perhaps, a forums post.

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

From https://imgur.com/a/FEOCFiY I'm not entirely sure where the gloating is. As I see it, Erik's highlighting the absurdity of an item selling for a price far above what it used to, but I detailed above the logic that led, at least in part, to the sales even occurring

"its not like I'm going to spend the rest of my days flipping 4 ref items for $2" - I still think that this shows a complete disconnect between seller and buyer. There was probably more context in the 12 minute gap between those screenshots, since I'm banned from TTA, I can't really help you out there.

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:

This is the only point I'll raise regarding your opinion of the whitelist access. As Chicken had mentioned, Marketplace isn't obligated to provide a rationale for every decision they make, whether that be whitelist access or a site ban. Would it be nice to know for clarity? Sure, it's just not a requirement on their part.

For sure, I know very well that Marketplace do not have to disclose anything.

However, when I am lied to - https://imgur.com/a/naA70WM - since Marketplace did not de-list a single one of any of the examples I provided. I hold them to a lesser degree with respect, especially considering the complete lack of awareness shown by some of the members of Marketplace support. If it was about the money, then they could have just admitted it. 

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • I would expect prices to spike more than expected initially after the seller program closure due to the shock actually taking effect, which would explain why sales were above your projections at the time; afterwards, sellers likely saw that those prices could be maintained due to the fact that if the item sold at that price once, it could do so again
  • "but if a hat more than comfortably sold at a higher price than market, why raise it any further?" - If an item could comfortably sell at buy order price, and that price was profitable for you, why would you raise your price above the buy order price?
    • From an Economics standpoint, it could be that the initial sale price was still below the equilibrium price. The only way to find out is to list the item for higher, see if it sells, and if it doesn't, then drop it down again
    • "Marketplace literally issued a warning about repeated highballing" - If the item is selling at a certain price, it's not really highballing to list another of the same item for slightly higher
  • Of course, prices did spike considerably in the first month, this is why I waited until the end of January to start my ticket and begin to record item values to their then relative market prices. Historically, when market prices dropped, sellers also dropped, it was not a matter of maintaining the same old price that sold before.
  • I take a pretty big issue with this line of thought - "Look, it sold for x amount on the graph so it's fine to list for x amount again". Take the case of the Sparkling Lights Winter Wrap Up again. Erik paid 45 keys pure, that was just about market price, perhaps slightly above, to then relist for $119.99, which at the time, there had not been a single sale at $119.99 in the past few months and the market had generally trended downwards since it was a bit overpriced and I saw it being gambled often. This is pretty clear artificial inflation of market price. Like I said before, once you purchase at market price, you are forcing yourself to list higher to profit, which shouldn't work if it was anywhere but Marketplace
  • "comfortably sold at a higher price than market, why raise it any further?" - again, the key words here are "higher price than market". If I pay 60% for a hat and resell for 100% that's pretty standard trading. If you now pay 100% for a hat and sell them for 140%, I think there's something very very wrong with that. It might just be a shift in percentages but there's a totally different thought process behind it.
  • "it's not really highballing" - and thus we end up with this - https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30810;5;u107 - you can see the increase from $69.99 to $79.99 like magic
  • https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Taunt%3A The Skating Scorcher/Tradable/Craftable/3055 - here's another example - https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30919;5;u3055
    • March 4th - sold for $99.99
    • Apr 15th - bumps it up to $119.99, so a $20 increase here for apparently, no reason if you take a look at other sellers at the time
    • and now he's listed at $139.99, so from an initial $99.99, the price has been gouged up by a whopping $40 when there is a seller at 45 keys
  • This is just one example where Erik slowly increases a price by $5, or $10 or in this case $20, for no particular reason except from greed
10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • You're not completely absolved of the attacking language when in https://imgur.com/a/lqMJyYJ I see "Get off your high horse, your argument has sand for support" and "I don't really like you that much," as well as "you may want to get your eyes checked" from the end of this section of your post.
  • The following chat messages happened after Gamey was banned from TTA, so I imagine Erik didn't ban/block you and Gamey solely because you voiced your grievances about Erik's Marketplace prices

You're absolutely correct, I'm not absolved, I never said I was. But the attacking words are in 2 different contexts completely. Erik got confrontational when I blocked him from my bots. I'm terrible sorry but there's a very good reason why I refused to sell to him because of his highballing antics. As expressed previously, gamey was completely blocked and banned from all Erik's ran discords for dming highballed items are asking for them to be lowered.

Is it really a crime to say that I don't like another user in this community? I'm being pretty honest with my stance here. Given the context was a private DM, it's a pretty high chance that's the safest place to ever disclose that I don't like another person. The "you may want to get your eyes checked" is a bit cynical I agree but the example was a 20 key hat being list for $100, I think that's enough hyperbole for anybody.

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • Killer Solo - After tax, $49.99 is $44.99, which is closer to 22 Keys since Keys were around $2 at the time of the sale - https://manic.tf/keyprice/?at=2021-05-23; 22 is not egregiously far from 18 Keys, and the gap can be explained from the supply/demand, premiums, etc. I mentioned earlier
  • Fire Fighter - Erik paid 39 Keys in December to list it for $179.99... after it already sold twice on Marketplace for $181 in September and $190 in November
  • Elf Care Provider - The first sale at $100 (43 Keys at the time) was quite close to the price on Backpack at the time https://gladiator.tf/listings/60063edbf6df39101cf036bd; if it could sell once at that price, theoretically it could sell again at that price, and it did twice
  • I'm not sure why you are taking the 10% fee off then calculating how many keys Erik can buy, by using Marketplace key prices? You should know full well that people buy keys with PayPal and if keys were around $2 at the time of the $44.99 key sale on Marketplace, then that most likely meant key prices for PayPal were ~$1.8 or so. This is the general trend. You divide Marketplace sale price by key price to get how many keys it sold for since that holds very true. The sale was 25 keys, a 7 key increase, $39.99 would have made a lot more sense
  • Fire fighter, yeah it has hype sale in September and unfortunately, bot.tf snapshots have now died so I can't find sellers at the November sale but by December, they had very clearly lowered. Again, this goes back to my point about artifically creating a margin. The $190 no longer represents market price. I haven't done any additional research but there is always the chance that it was a lucky sale that was then dumped shortly after. Especially considering the $56 later on in the graph that would indicate $190 was far too high (I did some digging, https://backpack.tf/item/9154727179 it could have been this item history, who knows)
  • Elf care, again, $100 = 50 keys, about 10 keys above market price for whatever reason. Refer back to above, marketplace.tf and backpack.tf markets should be and have always been correlated. 

Market prices should be as "fair" as possible according to Marketplace. It's not good trying to feign ignorance here because Erik would have had to buy the February and April sales and noticed that sellers were lower and should have adjusted for that.

10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • To address https://prnt.sc/156o49h, Erik mentioned afterward that he'd had you blocked on Discord, so he didn't see that Fish's message was directed at you; that'd be an issue to take up with Fish (we addressed this among the other staff members, and Fish acknowledged that was his fault)
  • Killing Tree - I agree this one is overpriced
  • Elf Care - Addressed already
  • Muffs - Similar to the Elf Care, two of these already sold at the price Erik has it listed at
  • Company Man - $399.99 was equal to 172 Keys when Erik first listed it; if he hasn't gone through and updated the prices on all of his items which is quite large https://marketplace.tf/shop/76561198091502579, I'd understand that
  • Reindoonibeanie - Can't say much to this one; only explanation would be like the Company Man with Erik not having updated every item
  • That's cool
  • Thanks
  • See above
  • Again, let us take the time to look into the sellers and market price at the time of these sales for the Muffs
  • Company man - $399.99 is 200 keys, why is it that you are allowed to cherrypick the instances where Erik hasn't or has gone through to update his items? Just treat the 100+ examples as a whole, there's no point in cherrypicking and saying "oh no this one he didn't meant to list that high", I never realised that I was speaking to Erik's spokepeople this entire time. I have well over 8000 buy orders across both my bots. It's my duty, and good practice to check these thoroughly (I do this on a weekly basis) and make sure that I overcut some buy orders, undercut some lower sell listings that may have appeared and perhaps, stop botting an item all together. Many other peope can list items for perfectly fine prices see:
  • Reindoonibeanie, same excuse as Company Man somehow?
10 hours ago, ᴾᴾᴹ Shuffle Spy said:
  • Responding to undercutting with undercutting isn't a new practice
  • Not every item on cs.deals is a scammer dump
  • Erik neither using nor paying attention to what goes through cs.deals doesn't mean he doesn't know how to check the histories of items

That's about all the responses I could reply too. I can agree with some of your points and I appreciate you letting me know that you tried to be as impartial as possible, but it is a rather difficult task to remove oneself completely when discussing about a colleague.

 

Thanks again

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

I've read through a lot from both sides at this point, and tbh I see where you're coming from but I don't really get how it all got directed at Erik. The issue is the marketplace whitelist and the environment it causes for trading, and it is a very real issue that I understand your frustration with. When you reduce the number of people who can sell that way so drastically, this was obviously going to happen. I don't think it's really Erik's fault more than anyone else who sells there. It's the fault of marketplace for the way they put it into place. And again, I understand why they did, but that doesn't alter that it's created this situation.

 

I don't think your goal is really well served by directing this soley at Erik. I also don't think Erik, and other community staff members, have reacted well or maturely to your complaints, but in part that may be because they feel targeted for something that is not ultimately their fault in the way you are painting it to be.

Thanks for this response, I understand that my negative experience with how I've been treated by Marketplace support staff as well as many regulars in the Marketplace discord makes up a lot of the emotions in this post. But I think it's still key to highlight that many other sellers are more than able to maintain good prices for items and undercut to fairer prices where necessary.

3 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

People can price stuff however they want, if people are willing to pay it then idk that anyone can really argue it's overpriced. "It was his choice to set the prices and refuse to lower them, not the choice of marketplace staff." so what? He can price his items however he wants to. That isn't an issue, to me.

I think a key issue with this thinking is that well, Marketplace have repeatedly stated that "repeated highballing" was made a punishable offense after some initial public backlash back in January.

As another reply by Chris highlighted earlier:

14 hours ago, rndmchrs said:

The facts that -

1. they don't ban ofp who lists $10 spells at like 400 shekles, and that

2. I got banned off marketplace after complaining about Alec listing craft (yes, CRAFT) hats at 50 cents - are just extremely funny to me 

 

https://imgur.com/a/k0txk1z support ticket been ignored for almost 3 months now btw

He was "manually banned" from the Marketplace discord when he kept bringing up that craft hats were being listed for egregious prices and has actually been completely ignored and sidelined by staff. Sure, as Shuffle said earlier, Marketplace aren't required to disclose any reasons for his ban, but it's the pure contradiction that upsets me.

 

Here are chatlogs from after Chris was banned in the Marketplace discord:

https://imgur.com/a/wdkChiA

Bonsai mentions that

"Ok so I took a look and he was marked manually within the last hour, it wasn't automatic. Regardless it wasn't meant to be retaliatory for what they said but they shouldn't have been allowed to sell. People are welcome to report anyone who is suspected of scripting. People complained about someone else who they suspected was scripting and they were so they got the boot. Banned users can still make support tickets to report users."

 

Again, Marketplace aren't required to disclose any reasons according to their ToS but you can see where the bitterness resides after being ignored for 3 months. I myself was left completely hanging for 4 months and lied to by support when they said they would "de-list" any items that Erik had highballed and I could not resolve these with Erik in discord/steam dms.

 

Perhaps it's naive thinking that sellers would always appreciate buyers and accommodate for them where necessary. But as I replied to Shuffle, creating these artifical margins and inflating a "market price" for personal gain just does not sit right with me at all.

 

Since your other response here goes onto the next page, I also wanted to respond to it in this:

"That's my view on why the rule seems to be enforced in one instance but not another. I can't tell you for sure, I don't work for marketplace. Seems like something to take up with them." 

Pretty much just that, I'm furious that other people have been kicked off the program for doing the exact same but when it comes to Erik, more than clear favoritism is shown because he makes a large chunk of commission for the site. It's certainly unfair and it's something I think is worth fighting for.

 

Thanks for all your insightful remarks, I'm a bit ashamed that most people seem to be "weirdchamping" you since I agree with most of your points.

 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So TLDR. You were using automated scripts to snipe the price on items on BP and marketplace that were notified in a server... Thats against the rules bro isnt it?. Grassing the people who made it and other members doesnt clear your guilt....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, DanielDee said:

So TLDR. You were using automated scripts to snipe the price on items on BP and marketplace that were notified in a server... Thats against the rules bro isnt it?. Grassing the people who made it and other members doesnt clear your guilt....

I'm not following? 

https://marketplace.tf/browse/tf2?ssortfield=last_updated

 

You just refreshed this link whenever you were online and just sniped if something nice popped up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

So TLDR. You were using automated scripts to snipe the price on items on BP and marketplace that were notified in a server... Thats against the rules bro isnt it?. Grassing the people who made it and other members doesnt clear your guilt....

Did you even read it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

 

I don't think it's ethical or fair that marketplace whitelisted people who happen to have positions of power in the community. I don't blame the people who happen to be in those positions for that. I blame marketplace.

If i recall it also said only a select few would be selected for whitelist seller program. At not point was it advertised we could apply. so yeah. shady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Offline said:

Did you even read it? 

Yeah the first bit. saying him and his cronies used to use a script to snipe deals. which against the ToS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

Yeah the first bit. saying him and his cronies used to use a script to snipe deals. which against the ToS.

Then you didn't read it, he never mentions a script.

 

"However, I wouldn’t be able to compliment the efforts of TTA without highlighting a pretty damning flaw. Within a few weeks of joining the discord, I already realised how unbelievably toxic the discord would get if someone “sniped” an item before anyone else on the “newly listed” page of marketplace. This is where most of the better deals were since people just looking to cashout would yolo any price and this could often be under backpack.tf buyers, netting huge gains."

 

Yeah, he doesn't mention a script.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

If i recall it also said only a select few would be selected for whitelist seller program. At not point was it advertised we could apply. so yeah. shady.

Marketplace initially opened up applications for key sellers, and is currently allowing applications in hopes of creating more variety.

 

5 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

Yeah the first bit. saying him and his cronies used to use a script to snipe deals. which against the ToS.

Nowhere does it say this?

I’d advise against giving a response like yours after reading only one or two sentences.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My only comment on this issue is that you should distinguish your issues with Erik from your issues with marketplace, as they are two separate sets of grievances.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not taking anyone's side by making this comment,

Is this about your issue with Erik or your issue with marketplace? - I feel like you have mixed both together here

 

1. 

I am seeing "https://prnt.sc/xm73lz" being brought up multiple times. 

I think this rule was for the quick and daily selling items like craft hats, Tools, paints, TODs, keys, refs, etc. If these items are at a higher price sure they will still sell but the no; of items being sold will drop hence this was enforced? 

Unusuals are not even affected by this, they sell when they sell, not every hat has a sale every day.

 

Also, why is this whole marketplace thing only about Erik? is he the only one doing this? I don't think so, I can name and point fingers at multiple other people who buy items & unusual from other sites and flips for a big margin on mp but I am not going to name them here.

Why were keys being bought at 1.6-1.7 and flipped on mp for over 2$ at some point in time before unnoticed? - because everyone was doing that?

Why is the ridiculous pricing of craft hats not an issue? - because they are too cheap and no one cares? (yes people did speak about this here but didn't look like much of an issue why is that?)

Why are unique and strange items (pro ks and spec ks and other items) prices not being brought up? - There are a lot of items that sell way over bp price. 

 

2. 

What's wrong with someone buying a hat at any price they wish to pay for it and then resell it?

A lot of Erik's buy orders were posted here. He isn't going around adding people asking to sell their hats to his buy orders. People sell to him because they see he is paying a lot more than BOTs

If someone is willing to pay and buy the item at the listed price what is the issue here? as in if these people buying unusual at a higher price it means

1. They don't care about what they are paying - as long as it is being sold for the listed price I don't see an issue

2. They don't check other places - not the seller's fault that the buyer isn't checking other sites to find the hat at a lower price

3. Fast and easier buying from mp rather than an offline seller - 

4. Might not have keys to buy from bp or other sites, or might just prefer paying cash?

5. Might not be a trader, could be a collector or someone who is looking for that hat.

 

Finally

As per this https://imgur.com/a/kpeZQEJ , MP has clearly said they are unable to keep track of the unusual market which proves my point above about https://prnt.sc/xm73lz (again I am not sure this is just my view)

 

I don't think it's right to focus on 1 person when others are also doing the same, regardless of what the item's value is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Cedarium said:

My only comment on this issue is that you should distinguish your issues with Erik from your issues with marketplace, as they are two separate sets of grievances.

 

25 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Is this about your issue with Erik or your issue with marketplace? - I feel like you have mixed both together here

Thanks to both Cedar and Smokey for raising this point, as well as Teeny from a previous post.

 

I believe that these 2 issues go hand in hand. Most of the friction between myself and Erik comes from me taking issue with his repeated highballing. The lack of Marketplace support just fuels that even further. If Erik, arguably, the largest backpack on Marketplace.tf, was properly punished and items were delisted, it would have served a more than crucial lesson to the rest of the whitelist that this behaviour was unacceptable. Considering people continue to list very high and I can appreciate Smokey not wanting to bait anymore people out, despite users like Flappy being kicked off the program for highballing, clearly, such a "small seller" relatively speaking did not end up serving as a lesson to others.

 

25 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Also why is this whole marketplace thing only about Erik? is he the only one doing this?

As I said above, I take notice of many other sellers who either match or list similarly high. However, the most examples I could collect mainly come from Erik himself.

 

For your comment on craft hats, I did not delve too much into it since I was highlighting unusual highballing, since examples have been made of those that highball uniques/craft items and more.

25 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Why were keys being bought at 1.6-1.7 and flipped on mp for over 2$ at some point in time before unnoticed? - because everyone was doing that?

Well, actually, no. The PayPal key price was very fast to change since the people on the whitelist wanted the profit so a lot of overcutting happened. This still gave them a couple cents of profits via selling but that's how it legitimately always has been. Even before whitelist, I bought ~3000 keys via Crypto for  ~$1.53/$1.55 each which I could have flipped to Marketplace if I wanted. So this is a non-issue in my eyes since the market is very very quick to adjust here.

 

For your second point, it seems again that you wish to use the reputation of Marketplace as Shuffle mentioned to allow for this stuff to happen. I disagree wholeheartedly with that because variety and competition would ensure that these prices would be much lower. You see, the examples you mostly see here are just the ones that have actually sold. But if I were to also collect some separate examples they might look like this:

Ascension Taunt: The Dueling Banjo
https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30842;5;u3052 - listed at $39.99, bear in mind, not a single sale has occurred

https://backpack.tf/item/9594075084 - Erik has even been listed since February

https://gladiator.tf/listings/601d51d7f8e36301d6471e6c - Likely paid 13 keys, which is full market price

March - https://gladiator.tf/listings/604e5ff7ef6be4581a397159 - market is a bit lower than 14 keys

https://gladiator.tf/listings/606bf541e499abc0a048a705 - April, vince bot still at 13 keys

https://gladiator.tf/listings/60c263f53b98a6cd7d241269 - June, qs.store bot now at 13 keys

 

So it's more than safe to say that market price is lower than 15 keys or so

If it had been listed at $29.99, who's to say that it might have sold by now?

 

Distant Dream Elf Care Provider
https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/31176;5;u168 - https://prnt.sc/159ulyj - Erik used to be listed at $99.99, no doubt because of the Divine Desire Elf

https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Elf Care Provider/Tradable/Craftable/168 - and again, we see that sellers are less than 20 keys now

https://gladiator.tf/listings/604d71d46864d6da85d15af1 - March, 27 keys

https://gladiator.tf/listings/6075dcd5536a1aa9872e3c56 - April 22 keys and lower

https://gladiator.tf/listings/6092f28dbe68e4a40ce698be - May, a ton of sellers at 20 keys, as expected from a Merc Grade unusual with a meh effect that has 41 in existence

https://gladiator.tf/listings/60b7d35b21281c8654ba3c79 - June, seems to have settled around 20 keys

 

And there are no sales to back up $99.99 so people are clearly not choosing to pay that amount. So it begs the question, why bother listing for that high anyways?

To me, it just feels like Erik wants to have an excuse to list another version of the hat at the same price once it sells for a price that does not reflect current Market Value one bit. And then it is suddenly justification despite being an outlier sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

Yeah the first bit. saying him and his cronies used to use a script to snipe deals. which against the ToS.

danny, providing us with helpful comments and solutions as always

in all honesty, i dont think all the blame is to be put on erik, though its pretty scummy that the marketplace staff is contradicting themselves with their "dont highball continuously or u get banned xdd" policy despite erik clearly selling his stuff for a lot more than what it sells for on average, especially considering that hes a community admin, its just favouritism that furthermore ruins an already unstable economy and i feel like the marketplace staff is equally to blame for this

 

this whitelisting bullshit needs to stop, either u close the site down to sellers for good or u re-open it to the public

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

The lack of Marketplace support just fuels that even further.

  I hope you already know the site is run by a small group of people out of which only 2 or 3 are support staff (I think not sure), and you already got your response to your ticket iirc

 

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Erik, arguably, the largest backpack on Marketplace.tf, was properly punished and items were delisted, it would have served a more than crucial lesson to the rest of the whitelist that this behaviour was unacceptable.

Users like Flappy being kicked off the program for highballing, clearly, such a "small seller" relatively speaking did not end up serving as a lesson to others.

Punished for what reason? - I believe you made a report and he received a warning, if you feel he is breaking the rules make another report? 
Flappy was banned for listing craft hats at a higher price (as per your comments I read above) - which falls under https://prnt.sc/xm73lz - and I have explained my understanding about this above, if this rule isn't clear you must clear it with Marketplace staff. 
and unusuals dont come under this is what I understand as its hard to keep track of unusual prices 

 

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

As I said above, I take notice of many other sellers who either match or list similarly high. However, the most examples I could collect mainly come from Erik himself.

This was exactly my point and question above,

Quote

I don't think it's right to focus on 1 person when others are also doing the same, regardless of what the item's value is.

Why is this whole marketplace thing only about Erik? 

is it safe to assume its because you have had prior issues with Erik, so you only focused on him?

 

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

For your comment on craft hats, I did not delve too much into it since I was highlighting unusual highballing, since examples have been made of those that highball uniques/craft items and more.

WHY? how is unusual highballing any different to crafthat highballing? 
Again

Quote

I don't think it's right to focus on 1 person when others are also doing the same, regardless of what the item's value is.

 

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

And there are no sales to back up $99.99 so people are clearly not choosing to pay that amount. So it begs the question, why bother listing for that high anyways?

I think teeny already addressed this above "People are free to list things as high as they want to, if people don't wanna pay it they won't pay it. If they do wanna pay it, well... that's what it's worth?" - and I agree with this. Why do you bother about what Erik or others have listed their unusuals for?

48 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

To me, it just feels like Erik wants to have an excuse to list another version of the hat at the same price once it sells for a price that does not reflect current Market Value one bit. And then it is suddenly justification despite being an outlier sale.

This is your personal opinion, you cant expect others to feel the same way?

 

Like I said before. Personally, I don't see any issue with this as long as people are buying unusuals at a listed price. NO ONE is forced to buy these unusuals at this higher price, they can always look for cheaper items in other sites.

If they don't wanna pay for it They Don't, If they wish to pay for it They buy it.

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Flappy was banned for listing craft has (as per your comments I read above) - which falls under https://prnt.sc/xm73lz - and I have explained my understanding about this above, if this rule isn't clear you must clear it with Marketplace staff.

 

11 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

WHY? how is unusual highballing any different to crafthat highballing? 

 

1 hour ago, « SɱokEy » said:

I think this rule was for the quick and daily selling items like craft hats, Tools, paints, TODs, keys, refs, etc. If these items are at a higher price sure they will still sell but the no; of items being sold will drop hence this was enforced? 

Unusuals are not even affected by this, they sell when they sell, not every hat has a sale every day.

I think you are contradicting yourself a lot here.

 

You want me to state why unusual highballing is different to crafthat highballing. 

You say that apparently, the screenshot of repeated highballing only applies to craft hats, tools and "quick and daily selling items"

 

In terms of percentages, you are damn right. Craft hat highballing is much more damning. But in terms of money, unusual highballing reaps significantly higher rewards.

 

11 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

I think teeny already addressed this above "People are free to list things as high as they want to, if people don't wanna pay it they won't pay it. If they do wanna pay it, well... that's what it's worth?" - and I agree with this. Why do you bother about what Erik or others have listed their unusuals for?

54 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Idk, maybe I have a different sense of justice. Why do people report others that shark and scam and take advantage of lesser experienced players? Who knows, perhaps you could educate us on why people feel the urge to make reports.

 

11 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

If they don't wanna pay for it They Don't, If they wish to pay for it They buy it.

Well this is why I gave the examples of the Banjo and the Distant Dream Elf. 

People did not buy at the higher price, people instead purchased the cheaper ones on different sites.

 

11 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

is it safe to assume its because you have had prior issues with erik before that you only focused on him?

 

As I said before, most of the friction between myself and Erik was caused by the whitelist so yes, is it a crime and do I break a rule when collecting most of the evidence from someone that I strongly disagree with?

I don't see a response to my logic that if the biggest dog is punished, the smaller dogs will learn from that lesson.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

You want me to state why unusual highballing is different to crafthat highballing. 

No, In my personal opinion, they are one in the same, high-balling is high-balling regardless of the item value

 

3 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

In terms of percentages, you are damn right. Craft hat highballing is much more damning. But in terms of money, unusual highballing reaps significantly higher rewards.

That maybe true, but again, you are still focusing on one person here, not everyone else who is doing this?

 

5 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Idk, maybe I have a different sense of justice. Why do people report others that shark and scam and take advantage of lesser experienced players? Who knows, perhaps you could educate us on why people feel the urge to make reports.

So you expect someone to be punished on a site with out reporting them?

 

8 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

Well this is why I gave the examples of the Banjo and the Distant Dream Elf. 

People did not buy at the higher price, people instead purchased the cheaper ones on different sites.

Yeah so? - its still a users wish to list any item at any price they wish to sell it for?

13 minutes ago, ajdislikesyournamingpolicy said:

As I said before, most of the friction between myself and Erik was caused by the whitelist so yes, is it a crime and do I break a rule but collecting most of the evidence from someone that I strongly disagree with?

I don't see a response to my logic that if the biggest dog is punished, the smaller dogs will learn from that lesson.

Its no crime but going after one person is not right, again I feel everyone doing this should be called out.
and Most importantly clear this https://prnt.sc/xm73lz with marketplace.tf - from recent comments about bans I see that rule only applies to low value items that sell more compared to unusuals (but i am not sure)

 

This is just going to get more spammy if we go back and forth in a circle. 

I have already given my point of view on this matter and you have shared yours and so have others. So I will not respond anymore unless I think there is a need to address something. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Punished for what reason? - I believe you made a report and he received a warning, if you feel he is breaking the rules make another report? 

Oh I should specify yes:

https://prnt.sc/15a27q5

From anon Marketplace support:

Hello,

Thank you for contacting us. Upon review of your entrie(s), it appears as if the majority of these reports are based on unusual pricing. We have contacted and verbally warned the seller regarding their other item pricing. With regards to unusuals, unfortunately we cannot accurately keep track of current market price for each unusual item in the game. We would overall like prices to be 'fair' in regards to all other items sold. However, if this issue persists, we ask that you resolve it with the seller directly via steam or discord. If a price is outdated or incorrect, and you are unable to resolve it with the seller, we will de-list the item in the future.
We appreciate your cooperation and assistance.

 

As repeated throughout my ticket and by now, within this forums thread. I am blocked by Erik on both discord and steam as of ~March somewhere

 

Here is the more recent Marketplace support response:

https://prnt.sc/15a2ebu

Greetings,

Thank you for your response(s). Given the nature and number of items you are reporting, we have contacted the seller directly to update their pricing. As stated previously we ask that you resolve such future matters with the seller, as we are not inclined to managing unusual pricing.
We are working on expanding our whitelist to expand variety and competition, and hope this will alleviate some burden for you or others to make reports.
At this time, we now consider this matter resolved. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance, and please let us know if we can assist you with a different issue(s).

 

Clearly, if, as Moder stated before, Erik is going around dming anyone that undercuts him, or in the above private conversations I had, just outright ruthlessly undercutting no matter the situation. Then expanding the whitelist has done nothing but make the older whitelist bitter at their profit margins being slashed.

 

So what can we take away from both these responses?

It's rather simple, Marketplace first lied to me about de-listing any of Erik's unusuals that he has highballed and that I could not resolve with him in DMs. Here is the last item that I was actually able to confront Erik about before being blocked.

 

In my ticket, 10th June:

Here was the only opportunity that I got to send an item to Erik for him to lower his price.
http://i.prntscr.com/Nrszg-twTbCUDDCLJ-7Sig.png
https://imgur.com/a/fFHBX4d - Here was the listing, Nebula UT for $699.99 after he sold one for $599.99, you can see the pattern of price gouging that he does.

He ended up lowering it, then blocked me on discord within the coming days when I didn't dm him or say anything about him in any public discords we share.

 

Marketplace also did not read my ticket in as much depth and also, was talking to Erik personally on the side regarding it too which to me, is a total breach of professionalism.

If they had read my ticket in depth, then they would know I had been blocked, pretty simple. Blocked people really can't resolve issues with said person that has blocked them, that is just a bit of common sense.

 

Here are chatlogs with Erik from gamey shortly before being blocked on discord:

https://imgur.com/a/DiyE0QI
 

"The ticket's content is private, it has been handled between marketplace employees and aj" 

🤷‍♂️

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, rndmchrs said:

The facts that -

1. they don't ban ofp who lists $10 spells at like 400 shekles, and that

2. I got banned off marketplace after complaining about Alec listing craft (yes, CRAFT) hats at 50 cents - are just extremely funny to me 

 

https://imgur.com/a/k0txk1z support ticket been ignored for almost 3 months now btw

there's a reason me and my friends called him overf'ingpriced

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, « SɱokEy » said:

Like I said before. Personally, I don't see any issue with this as long as people are buying unusuals at a listed price. NO ONE is forced to buy these unusuals at this higher price, they can always look for cheaper items in other sites.

If they don't wanna pay for it They Don't, If they wish to pay for it They buy it.

Its about ethics, isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Honestly I take more issue with the allegations of attempted pricing coordination than I do simply listing items for bad prices. If someone is trying pressure others into listing items for their inflated prices to move the market, that seems like textbook manipulation to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...