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- B u r n

Circumvent the vote power limit for price suggesters

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- B u r n

I guess this stems from my general lack of money to spend in tf2, but sometimes when I want to make price suggestions on higher value items, I'm unable to because my vote power is insufficient aka. my backpack value is too low. 

imo, maybe implement a system where users who have a certain number of unusual suggestions accepted (maybe 100 and above) and make serious suggestions are able to bypass this backpack value limit to make suggestions on hats above their bp value, so we can suggest higher tier items without actually having to spend too much money.

Thanks :)

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Wsdea

There is already a system in place. Your vote power is the highest recorded backpack value * reputation multiplier

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- B u r n
12 minutes ago, Wsdea said:

There is already a system in place. Your vote power is the highest recorded backpack value * reputation multiplier

yes, but even with that, my vote power is 1.5k lol, lets say i wanted to suggest a gpan, i wouldnt be able to

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Zeus_Junior

What some people have done in the past is get an expensive item lent to them, wait for bptf to record it properly so it counts for vote power and then return it.

 

However that'd require some amount of trust of course

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- B u r n
12 minutes ago, Zeus_Junior said:

What some people have done in the past is get an expensive item lent to them, wait for bptf to record it properly so it counts for vote power and then return it.

 

However that'd require some amount of trust of course

ive done that once, but perhaps i should have rephrased what i meant in the original post:

 

for some suggesters who do not have valuable backpacks/or any way to artifically inflate their vote power, their vote power would be pretty low preventing them from moving to higher tier suggestions. 

im not sure whats the purpose of the vote power for creating suggestions, if it's to discourage troll suggestions there are lots of troll suggs made with a lower currency blanket that is within the troll's vote power anyway.

thus, what i meant was for users who have a certain number of suggestions accepted and who are also trusted to make serious suggestions should be allowed to circumvent the vote power to create suggestions on higher tier items.

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LaughingLollipop

so you can get a multiplier of 5 by votes

 

I'm having a hard time believing there are many (if any) persons who have never exceeded a historic bp value of $600 that are qualified to actually assess value of high tier items

 

Yes having a large inventory doesn't mean you are either, but trading something in the same universe of value gives insight

 

Things like, liquidation timing, overpay, time to sell, if you can ever expect to get book price... its not impossible to imagine that an astute observer could learn these things, but the number of people who have while never owning  items worth >$1000 is going to be absolutely tiny

 

Also bear in mind that votes mean literally nothing and pricing mods are not bound by a percentage to accept, or a percentage to reject.

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Payback

In my personal opinion, vote power should be infinite, but it should take a lot more work to get up to 5x or more

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Mrs TS

How does one view what their actual voting number might be?  I'm curious what mine is.

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MeFigaYoma
6 minutes ago, Mrs TS said:

How does one view what their actual voting number might be?  I'm curious what mine is.

It's on the right side on https://backpack.tf/vote

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- B u r n
7 hours ago, LaughingLollipop said:

so you can get a multiplier of 5 by votes

 

I'm having a hard time believing there are many (if any) persons who have never exceeded a historic bp value of $600 that are qualified to actually assess value of high tier items

 

Yes having a large inventory doesn't mean you are either, but trading something in the same universe of value gives insight

 

Things like, liquidation timing, overpay, time to sell, if you can ever expect to get book price... its not impossible to imagine that an astute observer could learn these things, but the number of people who have while never owning  items worth >$1000 is going to be absolutely tiny

 

Also bear in mind that votes mean literally nothing and pricing mods are not bound by a percentage to accept, or a percentage to reject.

those are some fair points that you've bought up.

imo, there are some really great suggesters rn who have low bp values and still understand how the higher tier markets function (examples include aj, bob etc.) 

suggesters can use tools available such as bot.tf snapshots to determine factors like the time it took to sell.

also, for high tier items that are >1000 keys, sales are far and few and usually involve minis on a lot more smaller value hats (one example i can think of would be the recent gpan suggestion offline made) which most of the relatively experienced suggesters already have a knowledge of pricing.

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- B u r n
6 hours ago, Payback said:

In my personal opinion, vote power should be infinite, but it should take a lot more work to get up to 5x or more

that could work too i guess

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Jarool

I will say, if site staff are willing to suggest ways to circumvent the vote power limit, especially in ways that can result in a scam taking place (though luckily we haven't seen that happen yet, to my knowledge), then the system should definitely get a re-work, if not be removed entirely. The only thing it does is prevent troll suggestions from being made on expensive stuff, even though these suggestions are just gonna get closed by mods anyways. Besides, I've seen better effort at suggestions from some ~$100 backpacks than i have from backpacks with several thousands worth in them.

 

One idea I could think of in regard to re-working the vote power system is simply increasing the vote power multiplier cap significantly, or even just removing the cap. That way, the less expensive backpacks can work their way towards their ability to updating more expensive stuff, and it'll still decrease the amount of "Because it should not cost more than a real frying pan" type suggestions you would see on a gold frying pan. I won't deny that the vote power does prevent troll suggestions being made, there'd probably be as many bad gold pan suggestions as there are "stout shako for 2 ref" suggestions, but the current system permanently prevents less expensive backpacks from submitting these suggestions.

 

I haven't considered the vote power preventing votes on suggestions either, so feel free to add on to that.

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- B u r n
1 hour ago, Jarool said:

I will say, if site staff are willing to suggest ways to circumvent the vote power limit, especially in ways that can result in a scam taking place (though luckily we haven't seen that happen yet, to my knowledge), then the system should definitely get a re-work, if not be removed entirely. The only thing it does is prevent troll suggestions from being made on expensive stuff, even though these suggestions are just gonna get closed by mods anyways. Besides, I've seen better effort at suggestions from some ~$100 backpacks than i have from backpacks with several thousands worth in them.

 

One idea I could think of in regard to re-working the vote power system is simply increasing the vote power multiplier cap significantly, or even just removing the cap. That way, the less expensive backpacks can work their way towards their ability to updating more expensive stuff, and it'll still decrease the amount of "Because it should not cost more than a real frying pan" type suggestions you would see on a gold frying pan. I won't deny that the vote power does prevent troll suggestions being made, there'd probably be as many bad gold pan suggestions as there are "stout shako for 2 ref" suggestions, but the current system permanently prevents less expensive backpacks from submitting these suggestions.

 

I haven't considered the vote power preventing votes on suggestions either, so feel free to add on to that.

tbh im not sure how circumventing the vote power limit could result in scams unless you're saying that a scammer could create a suggestion to inflate a hat artificially, but even then it would have to be accepted first. maybe you could elaborate on that

 

the thing about troll suggestions is that as long as your vote power is high enough to create the suggestion, you can make one. take a look at the suggestion history of stuff like the burning tc or gpan, countless suggestions for 10 keys/1 ref or whatever. 

 

that being said, i agree that there should be a way for lower backpacks to work towards suggesting higher tier items, sort of a "proving themselves" kind of thing, and increasing the multiplier cap would probably be a good way of going about this

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Jarool
1 hour ago, - B u r n said:

tbh im not sure how circumventing the vote power limit could result in scams

 

12 hours ago, Zeus_Junior said:

What some people have done in the past is get an expensive item lent to them, wait for bptf to record it properly so it counts for vote power and then return it.

 

However that'd require some amount of trust of course

 

What Zeus said here is precisely what I had in mind. Another way around this is to just give the suggestion details to someone else and have them update it instead, though you won't get any benefits from it, which is especially discouraging for the guy that did the research now with the implementation of the ticket system.

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- B u r n
28 minutes ago, Jarool said:

Another way around this is to just give the suggestion details to someone else and have them update it instead, though you won't get any benefits from it, which is especially discouraging for the guy that did the research now with the implementation of the ticket system.

thats true especially with the added incentive to make suggestions, the site will likely see an increase in new suggesters.

i thought of an additional point where insufficient vote power may discourage some from suggesting unusuals and just sticking to uniques and stranges. perhaps this may be a way of encouraging suggesters to attempt higher valued items and gain experience

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FP jh34ghu43gu
7 hours ago, Jarool said:

I haven't considered the vote power preventing votes on suggestions either, so feel free to add on to that.

These should be separate imo, bad votes impact the system more than a troll suggestion.

 

There's plenty of existing tracking that is much better at measuring someone's suggestion worth. While keeping the initial inventory value requirements to keep high value troll suggestions away (see example of why the system exists here), it would be beneficial to drop the restrictions when users have reached enough suggestions ie whatever it takes to get a black belt with X amount of unusual suggestions AND a voting accuracy of like 95+% over 1000+ votes (Idk what's considered a high percent for that). Pretty sure the restriction was just to stop the troll suggestions and fake votes so if someone is dedicated enough to get to that point they really shouldn't be put in the same boat as the trolls just because they don't spend so much money.

 

Then again I probably don't have enough weight in the suggestion community to give feedback, I only feed some suggestions to offline every once and awhile.

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