XenSakura Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 It's time for bots to stop manipulating the price of items, as the owners of the bots are making the prices higher and higher, causing incorrect prices and being a pain in the ass to deal with. It's causing cosmetics like the strange tsar platinum or strange commissar's coat to be double or 1.5x the normal price. This site is to accurately price the cost of the hats, but if bots completely control the economy, this site might as well not exist anymore. What can be done about this is that first, we need to stop counting trades between two bots. This will reflect incorrect trades, and we need to remove that. Second, we need to be less reliant on bot.tf for trades. If bot.tf has sales, that's fine, but we also need sales between real people at the same price to prove that that is the correct price. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope something will be done about price manipulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 *sees OP's name* oh boiiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Bot or not, the market decides the price of items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Nice theory, but I don't think there's much to back it up, and here's some counter-evidence: The SCM provides a handy way to tell at a glance if the prices on here are obviously out of whack or not. A quick glance at the two specific cosmetics you mentioned shows that the Tsar Platinum is a bit low if anything...As for the Comissar's Coat, it's distinctly low, and has an open suggestion that has a decent high end and a low end below buy orders, and at which I'd instantly buy them. And you really can't argue with SCM sales, because if sales happen on the SCM at a certain price (and they are happening) then you have the option of selling the item on the SCM for x amount, and the item is worth that price. The SCM is a legitimate platform with real people trading on it, and although it's not a $1 SCM - $1 irl ratio, there's a fairly set exchange rate between currencies and you can easily figure out values and use it as a second source to back up or disprove your theories. As far as bots controlling the economy, what's generally going to happen is that bots will buy for more and sell for less than humans, right? That's why some people can't compete with them, and get all salty. That means you usually actually get a narrower, more accurate price range as a result of bots. You may not like it, but it's not easy to argue that it's worse for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keks Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Isn't this the guy who complained about bots undercutting him? In addition, it's the market that chooses the prices of items, just like Julia said. Even when Valve prices some cosmetics/weapons with prices of $10 or $15, we still value them as a couple of cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond jozu Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keks said: Isn't this the guy who complained about bots undercutting him? In addition, it's the market that chooses the prices of items, just like Julia said. Even when Valve prices some cosmetics/weapons with prices of $10 or $15, we still value them as a couple of cents. well its always when we have a community and then we have that one guy who complains too much and then suddenly change differently because they got lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaughingLollipop Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY how can the bots take our jobs /ssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolf Storms Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 simple economics. supply and demand. simple minds needing instant trades. profit whores galore. you want bots to disappear? get you and all your friends not to use them lol it won't matter. they perform a service. people want that service. if they didn't bots would've dried up 3 years ago. this has been discussed to death. but welcome newb i commonly find bots that are buyin for higher than another bot is selling. just do the same if you want them to go away. keep makin them lose money lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ankle Jack Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Mew2! said: It's time for bots to stop manipulating the price of items, as the owners of the bots are making the prices higher and higher, causing incorrect prices and being a pain in the ass to deal with. It's causing cosmetics like the strange tsar platinum or strange commissar's coat to be double or 1.5x the normal price. This site is to accurately price the cost of the hats, but if bots completely control the economy, this site might as well not exist anymore. What can be done about this is that first, we need to stop counting trades between two bots. This will reflect incorrect trades, and we need to remove that. Second, we need to be less reliant on bot.tf for trades. If bot.tf has sales, that's fine, but we also need sales between real people at the same price to prove that that is the correct price. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope something will be done about price manipulation. Its not the bot problem. Everything is based on the market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrakos Anthrakir Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Mew2! said: It's time for bots to stop manipulating the price of items, as the owners of the bots are making the prices higher and higher, causing incorrect prices and being a pain in the ass to deal with. It's causing cosmetics like the strange tsar platinum or strange commissar's coat to be double or 1.5x the normal price. This site is to accurately price the cost of the hats, but if bots completely control the economy, this site might as well not exist anymore. What can be done about this is that first, we need to stop counting trades between two bots. This will reflect incorrect trades, and we need to remove that. Second, we need to be less reliant on bot.tf for trades. If bot.tf has sales, that's fine, but we also need sales between real people at the same price to prove that that is the correct price. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope something will be done about price manipulation. you know the bots don't get trades if a real person doesn't trade with them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serpentine Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Or just yknow, dont own any of that shit for longer than the time it takes to dump it to a bot, ez pz problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielDee Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 He sort of has a point in some respect. Example. The source of data for the buds increase was 100% bot data. Like most suggestions if you look at them. Nothing else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus_Junior Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, DanielDee said: He sort of has a point in some respect. Example. The source of data for the buds increase was 100% bot data. Like most suggestions if you look at them. Nothing else... They were increased with bot data because they trade them the most, they are almost never used in unusual trading and most regular traders dont feel like competing with bots so they just sell them to the (bot) buyers. It would make no sense to ignore these sales and just stop using bot sales because, like 3.50 said: 6 hours ago, 3.50 said: That means you usually actually get a narrower, more accurate price range as a result of bots Bot owners just follow market trends too, most of the time bots aren't the cause for items to rise or fall, but they do speed it up a bit as they follow eachother and match others prices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mb_ Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Well those bots are still controlled by people and they are responsible for setting prices in those listings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSO Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 8 hours ago, Diamond jozu said: *sees OP's name* oh boiiii Nothing more to be said really, but to OP: Maybe just take two seconds to critically think why the price might rise. Since the cosmetic is purely ref based, and ref has depreciated a decent amount over the last 3 months, perhaps you might think about the relative value remaining the same instead of being a fixed absolute value. If you can't understand that then nvm, we eagerly await your next thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
🔥Master Throne Crimson🔥 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 You thott, it was the bott, but you thott not, it is not the bott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMinder Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 So, you are saying the prices are increasing. You're absolutely right, but you're not looking in the right place... We all are aware that the price of Refined Metal is dropping, this is mainly caused by the amount of Refined Metal in circulation is only increasing more and more, rarely ever is Refined Metal removed from the circulation. Sure, some people remove them from their inventory (not sure why) or use it in crafting in the hope to obtain a more valuable item, but there is so little incentive to do that, only Billy does it sometimes. To put it simple: we don't really have a good way to get rid of our Refined Metal and simple economics: the more there is of something, the less valuable it will be. So, Refined Metal is dropping in value, it only makes sense then that all items priced in Refined Metal will increase in price. They technically do not become more valuable, they simply adjust to the value of Refined Metal. And that concludes the lesson of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SVENNEN123 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 12 hours ago, Mew2! said: It's time for bots to stop manipulating the price of items, as the owners of the bots are making the prices higher and higher, causing incorrect prices and being a pain in the ass to deal with. It's causing cosmetics like the strange tsar platinum or strange commissar's coat to be double or 1.5x the normal price. This site is to accurately price the cost of the hats, but if bots completely control the economy, this site might as well not exist anymore. What can be done about this is that first, we need to stop counting trades between two bots. This will reflect incorrect trades, and we need to remove that. Second, we need to be less reliant on bot.tf for trades. If bot.tf has sales, that's fine, but we also need sales between real people at the same price to prove that that is the correct price. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope something will be done about price manipulation. Yeah. No. Doesnt make any sense, sales are sales either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted December 23, 2018 Administrators Share Posted December 23, 2018 Before we had access to classified snapshots and bot.tf data, most suggestions for non-unusual items were based on sellers or buyers - that is wildly inaccurate, as sellers =/= sales, and buyers are generally on the low end on their own. The addition of bot sales to suggestions made the prices significantly more accurate rather than less and it was very kind of @MasterMinder to allow us access to that information. If you want to see more non bot sales included in suggestions, by all means; start suggesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rxx Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 This site is NOT to accurately price different items, but to SUGGEST values based on what they sell for. bp.tf does NOT define the price, the buyers and sellers do. Bp.tf simply reports the prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenSakura Posted December 27, 2018 Author Share Posted December 27, 2018 On 12/22/2018 at 8:53 PM, Keks said: Isn't this the guy who complained about bots undercutting him? In addition, it's the market that chooses the prices of items, just like Julia said. Even when Valve prices some cosmetics/weapons with prices of $10 or $15, we still value them as a couple of cents. that wasn't me On 12/23/2018 at 4:57 AM, LSO said: Nothing more to be said really, but to OP: Maybe just take two seconds to critically think why the price might rise. Since the cosmetic is purely ref based, and ref has depreciated a decent amount over the last 3 months, perhaps you might think about the relative value remaining the same instead of being a fixed absolute value. If you can't understand that then nvm, we eagerly await your next thread. i understand if it rises naturally, but i've seen some bot owners just trade stuff between their bots several times in order to fabricate data and to raise the price so they can make more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S T E W Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Mew2! said: that wasn't me i understand if it rises naturally, but i've seen some bot owners just trade stuff between their bots several times in order to fabricate data and to raise the price so they can make more money. *Inhales* Got any proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenSakura Posted December 28, 2018 Author Share Posted December 28, 2018 14 hours ago, S T E W said: *Inhales* Got any proof? i had a conversation with a bot owner who was bragging about doing it, let me see if i can find it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keks Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 10:40 AM, Mew2! said: that wasn't me i understand if it rises naturally, but i've seen some bot owners just trade stuff between their bots several times in order to fabricate data and to raise the price so they can make more money. hmmmmm... Also, contacting some random bot owner doesn’t provide proof. Whether he is proud of undercutting or not, we are not talking about that guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenSakura Posted January 1, 2019 Author Share Posted January 1, 2019 On 12/30/2018 at 8:15 AM, Keks said: hmmmmm... Also, contacting some random bot owner doesn’t provide proof. Whether he is proud of undercutting or not, we are not talking about that guy reasons why i stopped trading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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