could we have prices on untradeble items with valueable parts?

[fvo]

Ive got a Strange Ghostly Gibus

 

There are 711 of these in existance, thats less than there are gold badges, that the first players got. the strangeifier costs 50 keys, but it doesnt show on bp.tf, ive seen untradeble keys having value but not items that have valuable parts.

what i mean by all this is, it would be nice to see the value of all items, even the untradeable ones, they are untradeable so why would it matter if they were showing value on bp.tf? i cant trade them so its just for display.

when you spend money on a strangifier that cost alot you kinda wanna see it hold a value on bp.tf

 

right under here you will see a picture i took from steam user Ivos bp, these keys are untradeable but still shows value so why shouldnt untradeable hats do?

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198058158180

[LSO]

1 hour ago, fvo said:

 

I could be wrong here but my guess would be this. Temporarily untradeable items such as keys show value because after a cooldown period they become marketable, and therefore actually worth money.

 

Permanently untradeable items, however, become worthless even if expensive parts have been attached. There is no way to ever monetize the items unless you were to sell your account.

[Osakuya]

My guess is that they show price of keys cause well, theyre keys, and that strange ghostly gibus is rare, and untradeable, making it impossible to price, bit keys, you can put 1-1.2keys, as its a key

[Keks]

The reason those keys have value is because they are temporarily untradable. items that are permanently untradable will never have sales, leading to never having a valid suggestion. This is why untradable items don't have prices

[fvo]

I dont think its impossible to set a price to untradeable items, the strangifier to my gibus costs 50 keys, there you go. + other parts you put on it. the system just needs to be better thats all, my gibus is around 56 keys, if i can tell you that so should the system too.

[fvo]

13 minutes ago, Keks said:

The reason those keys have value is because they are temporarily untradable. items that are permanently untradable will never have sales, leading to never having a valid suggestion. This is why untradable items don't have prices

Yes that is probably why but isnt it the same thing?? just because a for example a max head is untradeable doesnt mean its not valued as much as a tradeable one.

[LSO]

20 minutes ago, fvo said:

I dont think its impossible to set a price to untradeable items, the strangifier to my gibus costs 50 keys, there you go. + other parts you put on it. the system just needs to be better thats all, my gibus is around 56 keys, if i can tell you that so should the system too.

But from a market standpoint your item is now worth $0 because you can't sell it. The only way you can get any value now is if you sold your account, and no one could account for that.

17 minutes ago, fvo said:

Yes that is probably why but isnt it the same thing?? just because a for example a max head is untradeable doesnt mean its not valued as much as a tradeable one.

No it isn't, and yes it does. You can make an almost instantaneous around $38 USD for selling a tradeable one, and by definition that means it is valued more than one that is worth $0 unless the account was sold as I said above.

[Diamond jozu]

if your gibus isnt tradable at all permanent,whats the poing of having it priced if you cant sell it unless you can list it on market which i think its not possible.if its temp untradable then just wait

[TF2Scourge]

As stated above, Keys eventually become tradeable and marketable. There is a point in showing their value because they still hold value, even if you cannot touch them at the moment.

 

It should be noted that most, or likely all, items taken off SCM (bought or taken down by the seller) become untradable, and do not show their value. This could be simply because there is no "price" for the untradeable versions of these items. Bp.tf considers them as a different item.

In the case of keys, it could be because they are a currency.

 

Pricing items is entirely dependent on how much people would buy the items for. Since you can't market or trade an untradable item, it would be impossible. How could you define the worth of such an item? The value of parts vary wildly on an item, and pricing an item solely on parts would undervalue the item, simply because we have no idea what the base item would be worth.

 

But let's say we could give an estimate on the price of things that cannot be traded. Let's look at Strangifiers for hats.

 

Sole Mate:

Outdated price for 5-6 keys on the Strangifier

Strange Sole Mate is roughly 0.59 keys

 

Summer Shades:

Strangifier outdated for ~6 keys

Sellers and buyers hover around 3-4 keys for the Shades

Strangifier SCM sales for ~4 keys

 

Archimedes:

Strangifier Outdated at 6 keys, seller at 8, Buyer for ~4 keys.

Sold here for ~ 4 keys

Sold here for 4 keys

Buyers for under 4 keys, Sellers up to 8.

More sales for ~3 - 5 keys.

SCM sales for around ~7 - 8 key on the strangifier

 

Heat of Winter:

Barely indate at ~4 keys. Most sellers for 8+ have special attributes. Buyers up to ~4.3 keys

Strangifier has buyers at 5.3, outdated at 8 keys.

Multiple sales for ~4 keys

 

Ghastlierest Gibus:

Indate at 21 keys. Buyers at ~20

Buyers up to 8 keys on the Strangifier

Somewhat recent SCM sale puts the strangiifer at ~29 keys

 

Heer's Helmet:

Outdated at 6 keys on the Strangifier

Sellers and buyers around 1- 2 keys.

Buyers on SCM for the Strangifier for ~4 keys.

 

 

In most cases, the strangifier is worth more than the actual strange. This is  a little hard to prove as prices are outdated in most cases.

But lets take the pattern and apply it. 

Recent sales point to the Gibus Strangifier actually being around 40 keys.

Now, if the STRANGIFER is ~ 40 keys, the pattern dictates that the Strange gibus is worth less than that.

Let's say, for the sake of the argument, only a quarter drop to 30 keys.

 

Now lets tackle strange parts. In trading, the value of strange parts lowers considerably once applied.

I confess to not knowing the exact amount bp.tf applies (My math adds up to 4% of the price of the part is added on, but that doesn't seem likely) , but I can say 30% is fairly high, but it is a solid number that is better than 4%.

 

Knowing this, lets apply it to the one you own.

You currently have ~6 keys in parts added on. 30% is roughly 1.776, rounded to 1.78 keys.

 

This means your hat, at a very generous amount, is worth around 32 keys.

you're welcome. update your bp.tf notes with that if you wish.

 

With that question out of the way, lets return as to why not.

Pricing untradables is a problem because the websites' rules need you to have sales. which we don't have.

Ignoring the above, and giving them a price regardless is hard because it is not as simple as pricing them as the Strangifiers. My above research shows as much.

 

SO could it be a cosmetic thing? yea.

Will it? Never.

If you are concerned with a arbitrary number beside an item, buy yourself a Strange Ghastlierest Gibus. 

 

 

 

 

 

[fvo]

1 hour ago, TF2Scourge said:

As stated above, Keys eventually become tradeable and marketable. There is a point in showing their value because they still hold value, even if you cannot touch them at the moment.

 

It should be noted that most, or likely all, items taken off SCM (bought or taken down by the seller) become untradable, and do not show their value. This could be simply because there is no "price" for the untradeable versions of these items. Bp.tf considers them as a different item.

In the case of keys, it could be because they are a currency.

 

Pricing items is entirely dependent on how much people would buy the items for. Since you can't market or trade an untradable item, it would be impossible. How could you define the worth of such an item? The value of parts vary wildly on an item, and pricing an item solely on parts would undervalue the item, simply because we have no idea what the base item would be worth.

 

But let's say we could give an estimate on the price of things that cannot be traded. Let's look at Strangifiers for hats.

 

Sole Mate:

Outdated price for 5-6 keys on the Strangifier

Strange Sole Mate is roughly 0.59 keys

 

Summer Shades:

Strangifier outdated for ~6 keys

Sellers and buyers hover around 3-4 keys for the Shades

Strangifier SCM sales for ~4 keys

 

Archimedes:

Strangifier Outdated at 6 keys, seller at 8, Buyer for ~4 keys.

Sold here for ~ 4 keys

Sold here for 4 keys

Buyers for under 4 keys, Sellers up to 8.

More sales for ~3 - 5 keys.

SCM sales for around ~7 - 8 key on the strangifier

 

Heat of Winter:

Barely indate at ~4 keys. Most sellers for 8+ have special attributes. Buyers up to ~4.3 keys

Strangifier has buyers at 5.3, outdated at 8 keys.

Multiple sales for ~4 keys

 

Ghastlierest Gibus:

Indate at 21 keys. Buyers at ~20

Buyers up to 8 keys on the Strangifier

Somewhat recent SCM sale puts the strangiifer at ~29 keys

 

Heer's Helmet:

Outdated at 6 keys on the Strangifier

Sellers and buyers around 1- 2 keys.

Buyers on SCM for the Strangifier for ~4 keys.

 

 

In most cases, the strangifier is worth more than the actual strange. This is  a little hard to prove as prices are outdated in most cases.

But lets take the pattern and apply it. 

Recent sales point to the Gibus Strangifier actually being around 40 keys.

Now, if the STRANGIFER is ~ 40 keys, the pattern dictates that the Strange gibus is worth less than that.

Let's say, for the sake of the argument, only a quarter drop to 30 keys.

 

Now lets tackle strange parts. In trading, the value of strange parts lowers considerably once applied.

I confess to not knowing the exact amount bp.tf applies (My math adds up to 4% of the price of the part is added on, but that doesn't seem likely) , but I can say 30% is fairly high, but it is a solid number that is better than 4%.

 

Knowing this, lets apply it to the one you own.

You currently have ~6 keys in parts added on. 30% is roughly 1.776, rounded to 1.78 keys.

 

This means your hat, at a very generous amount, is worth around 32 keys.

you're welcome. update your bp.tf notes with that if you wish.

 

With that question out of the way, lets return as to why not.

Pricing untradables is a problem because the websites' rules need you to have sales. which we don't have.

Ignoring the above, and giving them a price regardless is hard because it is not as simple as pricing them as the Strangifiers. My above research shows as much.

 

SO could it be a cosmetic thing? yea.

Will it? Never.

If you are concerned with a arbitrary number beside an item, buy yourself a Strange Ghastlierest Gibus. 

 

 

 

 

 

i dont want a ghastlierest gibus, but how is it impossible? the gibus is free and the strangifer costs 50 keys, + other parts added to it, is it really that hard to make a value of that? when summer shades were untradable how were there prices on those then?

[fvo]

would it be impossible to put a price on untradeable hats that exist as tradeable hats? i have alot of untradeable cosmetics that i made untradeable because i tend to sell all my shit at one point. 

i got an untradeable Crone's Dome, its 2,77 ref, im pretty sure my crones dome should also be worth that even tho its untradeable, this cant be put next to the gibus because my gibus is a Ghostly Gibus and you cant have a tradeable one, so it doesnt have a value since you also get it for free but when you make it strange shouldnt it have a value?? 

 

note the only reason i want to have a price tag on it is because it is worth just as much as a good unusual, it cant be traded so even if its not seen as worth 50 keys it doesnt matter, also there are only 711 in existance, thats as i said before less than those gold badges the first players got when they got the game back in 07, so thats also another thing to take into factor.

[fvo]

pretty much, i just want everyone to see the value of owning one of the rarest hats in the game.

[fvo]

around 32 keys, well idk about that, but sure, but heres another problem, theres not a price tag next to it that says 32 keys so yea.

[3.50]

1 hour ago, fvo said:

pretty much, i just want everyone to see the value of owning one of the rarest hats in the game.

An item's worth or value essentially means what you can trade it for. 

 

Your hat is untradable; thus, you can not trade your hat for anything.

 

It is worth nothing.  Giving it a non-zero price would be a lie.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like this, but those are the facts.

[Vision]

2 hours ago, fvo said:

 when summer shades were untradable how were there prices on those then?

Because back in that time, you COULD actually trade them using gift wrap, which you could never do to a gibus, even when untradable items were wrappable.

This thread is basically "pls give my item a value so my backpack value gets bigger, as well as my ego"

[Vrakos Anthrakir]

3 hours ago, fvo said:

would it be impossible to put a price on untradeable hats that exist as tradeable hats? i have alot of untradeable cosmetics that i made untradeable because i tend to sell all my shit at one point. 

i got an untradeable Crone's Dome, its 2,77 ref, im pretty sure my crones dome should also be worth that even tho its untradeable, this cant be put next to the gibus because my gibus is a Ghostly Gibus and you cant have a tradeable one, so it doesnt have a value since you also get it for free but when you make it strange shouldnt it have a value?? 

 

note the only reason i want to have a price tag on it is because it is worth just as much as a good unusual, it cant be traded so even if its not seen as worth 50 keys it doesnt matter, also there are only 711 in existance, thats as i said before less than those gold badges the first players got when they got the game back in 07, so thats also another thing to take into factor.

all of your untradeable items are worthless because you can't trade them... not complicated.  it's like owning a (severely) broken blender, sure, you have it, but who's going to buy a broken blender from you?

 

also, why would you knowingly make your stuff untradeable if you intended to sell them at some point....

[Lonster_Monster]

I personally thought this kinda of question wouldnt have been asked but still a good question

the problems are:

#1 valve fixed it the way untradebale items cannot be traded anymore unless they are already giftwrapped b4 the gifted tag elitmination update

#2 bp.tf Has a way that doesnt endorse going against steam ToS which si selling steam accounts so only tradeable/temp untradeable items show values

[Vrakos Anthrakir]

3 hours ago, Lonster_Monster said:

I personally thought this kinda of question wouldnt have been asked but still a good question

the problems are:

#1 valve fixed it the way untradebale items cannot be traded anymore unless they are already giftwrapped b4 the gifted tag elitmination update

#2 bp.tf Has a way that doesnt endorse going against steam ToS which si selling steam accounts so only tradeable/temp untradeable items show values

 

@1

it still would've been wildly inefficient to make everything you own untradeable forcing you to gift wrap everything in order to trade.  you could just leave everything tradable and not waste your money on gift wrap

@2

even if you were considering selling steam accounts as a valid method of trading untradeable items, it would get way too complicated to value intangibles like the account's rep, steam level, badges, etc. and there'd be way too many other items that would go along with the account making it some sorta bulk/bundle sale.  people usually buy whole backpacks at a discount so I'd assume accounts would work the same way too

[fvo]

On 2018-08-18 at 8:17 PM, Vision said:

Because back in that time, you COULD actually trade them using gift wrap, which you could never do to a gibus, even when untradable items were wrappable.

This thread is basically "pls give my item a value so my backpack value gets bigger, as well as my ego"

And here comes the normies, Wow dude, you must be so smart to figure out thats the reason I want a fkn price on my gibus. the strangeifier is literally 50 keys.

[fvo]

On 2018-08-18 at 7:46 PM, 3.50 said:

An item's worth or value essentially means what you can trade it for. 

 

Your hat is untradable; thus, you can not trade your hat for anything.

 

It is worth nothing.  Giving it a non-zero price would be a lie.

 

I'm sorry if you don't like this, but those are the facts.

no thank you

[3.50]

On 8/22/2018 at 1:38 PM, fvo said:

no thank you

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, or just really dumb.

 

This site doesn't assign arbitrary values to an item based on anyone's opinion of what it is or should be worth. 

 

All it does is report sales that have happened, for keys/cash/other items.

 

Your hat does not have any value because it can not be traded.  If you want to argue otherwise, you have to show sales.  That's how things work around here.  Put up or shut up.

[Scott Bakula]

On 8/22/2018 at 12:35 PM, fvo said:

the strangeifier is literally 50 keys.

 

And? It only has value before it's used. Once used it becomes worthless.

 

Eating a $50 steak doesn't mean that your subsequent shit is worth $50.

[LeROY]

Wow... this thread... Thought I was at Yahoo Answers for a minute

Dont know whats worse -Your problem with untradables being unpriced(duh) or the reason for you to want it?!?

 

My experience with this kind of posts is: If someone doesnt understand the reason while typing the question, there`s really no point in trying to explain