Change in the rules section

[Mazzz]

Hello,

 

I come here with a suggestion to change rules regarding buy orders in buy order section of rules of backpack.tf website. Why do I think there is a rule that need to be changed? Let's start from the beggining:

 

Today I got banned for "cutting in the classifieds", which breaks the rule 5. of buy order section:

"Buy orders for specialized or professional killstreak weapons must be for any sheen/effect - listings stating things like "any but hypno-beam" violate this rule." - this means I can be banned simply for buying specific item I'm looking for. Apparently, I'm not allowed to post buy order higher then the other buyers in the classfield section If I mention, that I'm interested in just specific modification of an item I'm looking for.

 

I'm going to share part of my Ban Appeal I sent to mods:

Quote

 

(...)

I want to point out how is this rule working: If I create buy order with higher price than the rest of buy orders, everything is fine, but when I create my buy order with higher price then the rest of buy orders and I just mention I'm interested in some specific modifications - this is just totally wrong and I deserve to be banned... IMPORTANT: I didn't set my price higher BECAUSE I want specific modifications. I set the price higher to beat other buy orders (thats how free market works). I just mentioned about sheen/killstreaker because I want to avoid trade offers of Items I don't want... But how could you tell why I priced my buy order higher? You just simply couldn't and decided to ban me... I also had 3 more buy orders: all were the highest, because I want to beat other buyers and 2 of them didn't depend on any modifications. Did you ban be because of them as well? NO, because it's not a bad behaviour of mine to beat other buyers offers.

 

Conclusion: I do not ask for removing my ban. I know I broke the rules. I just want you to take my message and either answer it to prove that I'm wrong, or discuss it with other admins of bp.tf site and change rules section, so me and other traders won't get banned anymore for such a reason like "cutting in the classifieds".

 

 

Like I mentioned in the quote, I don't know why traders should be banned if they want to buy some specific item for more then the other buyers IF you mention that you want some specific modification on your item as well.

 

In my opinion the 5th point of rules section should be changed and I think discussing it here could be a good start.

 

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

Classifieds work by ordering listings for the same items by price. If you place artificial additional filters on it, it stops being a fair system as your listings are pushing down those of other people even though they are buying the same items and you are buying only a specific type within that category. You are welcome to make a listing for any at a low price and then offer more for the specific one you want in the notes. You will still need to purchase the generic version if offered but if the listing is low you should be able to resell it without issue. Alternatively, if you wish to only make listings for very specific items with particular sheens or effects, you will need to use the trading section of the forums or a different site such as outpost.

[Mazzz]

Hello,

 

Fist of: "If you place artificial additional filters on it, it (classfields) stops being a fair system as your listings are pushing down those of other people even though they are buying the same items and you are buying only a specific type within that category." - I thought that adding more metal/keys to buy order offer can push down buy orders of other people - not applying specyfic filter (which I understand as an additional info in the note).

 

"You are welcome to make a listing for any at a low price and then offer more for the specific one you want in the notes." - Thank you for the permission, I acually just did that and combined it with beating other buyers by offering more (which is common practice between traders), simply because they are bots that I can not compete with and not because I want that specific modification on the item. But how can you tell what my intentions are?

 

"You will still need to purchase the generic version if offered but if the listing is low you should be able to resell it without issue." - WHY? Do you really think that If someone is offering me an item I don't want, I need to purchase it regardles of any conditions, because of a fact that i can resell it? I'm sorry, but I started trading in 2011 and I have never faced such a ridiculous suggestion. You just said: buy item because you can resell it... What...

 

"Alternatively, if you wish to only make listings for very specific items with particular sheens or effects, you will need to use the trading section of the forums or a different site such as outpost." - After reading that last sentence, my conclusion was simple: I should go to other dead/unpopular sites, because backpack.tf does not allow to ask for specific modifications since it's "unfair" practice. I mean, you said "go to the other websides" because it's not illegal there (why asking for specific item on outpost is legal and it is illegal on backpkac.tf)? On backpack.tf this behaviour results in ban, but I won't get banned on outpost for doing the same thing, right? Also as you can see, I've never been on your forum, since post I'm typing now is my second ever post here. I can understand if someone is looking for VERY rare items - those people might need forums to find what they are looking for, but we are talking about quite common items like killstreak weapons with sheens and killstreakers... Why would I need to use forum to find TF2 item, since there is better place for it, called: Classfields?

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

16 minutes ago, Mazzz said:

Hello,

 

Fist of: "If you place artificial additional filters on it, it (classfields) stops being a fair system as your listings are pushing down those of other people even though they are buying the same items and you are buying only a specific type within that category." - I thought that adding more metal/keys to buy order offer can push down buy orders of other people - not applying specyfic filter (which I understand as an additional info in the note).

 

"You are welcome to make a listing for any at a low price and then offer more for the specific one you want in the notes." - Thank you for the permission, I acually just did that and combined it with beating other buyers by offering more (which is common practice between traders), simply because they are bots that I can not compete with and not because I want that specific modification on the item. But how can you tell what my intentions are?

 

"You will still need to purchase the generic version if offered but if the listing is low you should be able to resell it without issue." - WHY? Do you really think that If someone is offering me an item I don't want, I need to purchase it regardles of any conditions, because of a fact that i can resell it? I'm sorry, but I started trading in 2011 and I have never faced such a ridiculous suggestion. You just said: buy item because you can resell it... What...

 

"Alternatively, if you wish to only make listings for very specific items with particular sheens or effects, you will need to use the trading section of the forums or a different site such as outpost." - After reading that last sentence, my conclusion was simple: I should go to other dead/unpopular sites, because backpack.tf does not allow to ask for specific modifications since it's "unfair" practice. I mean, you said "go to the other websides" because it's not illegal there (why asking for specific item on outpost is legal and it is illegal on backpkac.tf)? On backpack.tf this behaviour results in ban, but I won't get banned on outpost for doing the same thing, right? Also as you can see, I've never been on your forum, since post I'm typing now is my second ever post here. I can understand if someone is looking for VERY rare items - those people might need forums to find what they are looking for, but we are talking about quite common items like killstreak weapons with sheens and killstreakers... Why would I need to use forum to find TF2 item, since there is better place for it, called: Classfields?

 

 

You are misunderstanding my words. The "artificial filter" is only wanting specific sheens/effects when everyone else has listings up for any.

 

It doesn't matter what your intentions are, if you won't buy any item of the listed type at your list price you are breaking classified rules. If you're happy to buy any sheen/effect at your high price, by all means list at the high price.

 

If you want to use classifieds, yes.

 

Outpost trades work very differently to backpack.tf trades, as you can clearly tell just by glancing at them. As I already explained to you, classifieds work by ordering listings for the same item by price. Outpost does not do that. So if you list for a high price on outpost, you're not pushing anyone else's listings down unfairly. That is the difference.

[Mazzz]

9 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

You are misunderstanding my words. The "artificial filter" is only wanting specific sheens/effects when everyone else has listings up for any.

 Thanks for clearing that up.

 

10 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

It doesn't matter what your intentions are, if you won't buy any item of the listed type at your list price you are breaking classified rules. If you're happy to buy any sheen/effect at your high price, by all means list at the high price.

Ok, I wanna point our 1 thing here: I'm talking mainly about killstreak weapons. Not paints, not spells etc. This is important, because as far as I know, there is no official list of sheens/killstreakers and their values. So, if someone does like fire horns/manndarin combo, he can find and buy it, but if someone prefer the hypno-beam effect instead of fire horns, he can have it too. The point of killstreak weapons is, they all have the same cost when it comes to create them, no matter what killstreaker/sheen you want. When it comes to paints, for instance: lime paint is obviously more expensive then the green one, but there are other factors that you need to consider while pricing painted items. The same apply to spells. This does not apply to killstreak weapons, because, when we are considering different killstreakers/sheens for THE SAME weapon, they all required the same amount of parts to create. Of course, that the pro killstreak RL will be worth more than pro killstreak bat, but classfields can be listed for 1 weapon type only, when it comes to buy orders and all of them had equal cost of production, to make them killstreak weapons. People buying killstreak weapons based on their own taste. I got banned because I'm looking for s. gunslinger with violet sheen and fire horns killstreaker. I want this scpecific combo, because I think it's gonna fit the weapon and I base it on my own taste, but still, no matter what combo I'd post here, every singe one of them had equal cost of production, so I'm not sure how I could be harmful when it comes to searching for those kind of items. Conclusion: price of pro killstreak weapon does not change no matter what sheen/killstreaker combo (or at least it's heavily dependent of people taste, not crafting conditions - which does not hurt other traders if they doesn't care what killstreaker/sheen combo they get)

 

10 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

If you want to use classifieds, yes.

Well, I would If I wasn't banned for a day.

 

10 minutes ago, Teeny Tiny Cat said:

Outpost trades work very differently to backpack.tf trades, as you can clearly tell just by glancing at them. As I already explained to you, classifieds work by ordering listings for the same item by price. Outpost does not do that. So if you list for a high price on outpost, you're not pushing anyone else's listings down unfairly. That is the difference.

I do not consider them working "differently", because there is basicly 1 major factor that differs them: positioning and what can I tell, backpack.tf has 1 more filter applied to the classfields, which sort them by the price, but besides that, every trade on outpost and bp.tf is also filtered by the bump time. They both are used for the same thing: finding sellers/buyers.

 

So far i got to this conclusion: I'm simply not able to buy specific item with specific killstreak sheen/killstreaker on backpack.tf via buy order. I can in fact use buy order If i'm looking for any sheen/killstreaker combo, not just specific one, BUT I might add more for specific sheen/killstreaker if I want and I can even mention it in the note, but I will be banned if I change the price for higher than the other buyers.

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

15 hours ago, Mazzz said:

 So far i got to this conclusion: I'm simply not able to buy specific item with specific killstreak sheen/killstreaker on backpack.tf via buy order. I can in fact use buy order If i'm looking for any sheen/killstreaker combo, not just specific one, BUT I might add more for specific sheen/killstreaker if I want and I can even mention it in the note, but I will be banned if I change the price for higher than the other buyers.

 

Yup. You can set the price as whatever you want as long as you are buying any sheen/effect at that price. Otherwise, you will need to find somewhere else to look for killstreaked weapons.