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Do u want to ban someone? Do like him


Diego Strange.Trader

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Hello, today i was banned 

sad.thumb.png.1eddd040f1807be52db7fe779a411d15.png
 

after you listened to the song, you can read post below


i am using custom bot which trades on backpack.tf, he decline offers from banned on steamrep and backpack.tf.
So, if u trade on this site like me, u could notice that there are different trade bots, which undercut each other. i think someone found nice way to remove rivals.


This guy https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198830377634
His backpack history starts July 16th
July 18th he sold me 1 item more expensive 15 keys 
Rules backpack tf - all trades 15 keys or greater in value - you must check
His item cost 16 keys ( lol )
July 19th this person was banned on backpack.tf
July 20th i was reported by someone
July 21th i was banned (hahahaha)


of course it could just be a coincidence(or far-fetched).
in future i will fix my bot to decline trades like this.
I wrote this post just for other traders, be more careful

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18 minutes ago, Diego Strange.Trader said:

he decline offers from banned on steamrep and backpack.tf.

Why didn't it work in this case?

5b545592a1bfd_ScreenShot2018-07-22at10_59_06.png.ac9a703f58f00ee89fc94048e48171e9.png

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Quote

19th july this person was banned on backpack.tf

cuz when i traded with him , his account was not banned on backpack tf and he did not have this status (alt scammer)

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I'd advise putting in a couple of additional checks on top of just backpack.tf and SR ban status.

 

Quote

We characterize an obvious alt as someone having some or all of these qualities:

 

(1) a steam level of three or less

(2) private backpack or profile

(3) minimal inventory except for high value items

(4) new account with high value items

(5) low hours in the game they are trading items for (though this may not be visible now by default)

 

In this case, if you had put in these checks, you would have been able to see that it was quite an obvious scammer alt, from the Level 1 account that was only 3 months old.

For next time, I'd make sure to implement the above checks as well, to save you scrutiny from mods again and reduce the risk of trading with such an account.

 

Using the Steam API, or any respective modules, you can easily get a user's steam levels and their age. You can also check their visibility of their profile and their inventory, as well. If you're using NodeJS and need help with adding in these checks or usage of the SteamAPI, feel free to ask.

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Just trying to clarify a bit - not voicing any opinion here:

What I think he’s trying to say is that someone who he undercut paid a scammer to trade one of his bots so that he could get reported and banned. 

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1 month ago I was banned for trading with UNBANNED scammer alt. My bot automatically accepted an offer from them. Back then I told moderator marty birdman that it is just a way to ban anyone who uses automatic accept. Today I was banned for 2 weeks for the same thing. Next time I will be perma banned. It is technically impossible to make bot check backpack value history chart. So everyone who uses auto accept could be easily banned. All bot.tf accounts too.

 

Backpack.tf mods simply don't understand that this rule is just a weapon which some regular users can use as a very powerful banhammer. If their intention is to stop item laundering then make api telling is a certain profile is likely scammer alt or not. Or make api for backpack history chart. Or wait someone to ban all huge bots or even wait for a BAN WAR

 

UlMlVY3.png

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Whats more I was banned for trading with the same person so it really looks like someone is getting rid of competitors. The competition among unusual buyers is very high today. 

 

The most interesting thing is that moderators claim their main intention is to stop item laundering but after many bots get banned they simply say "do a manual check for 15+ keys trades". Thats it! And they fell like these rules are OK, basically they are just killing bot trading.

 

But why would they want to kill it? I also want to notice that scrap.tf bots can buy items from obvious scammer alts and they are not subject to ban on backpack.tf(as marty birdman said). Why would you wanna stop item laundering so bad when any obvious scammer alt can easily sell scammed items on scrap.tf? So maybe that is a reason why backpack.tf moderators are killing bot trading? I am not saying that buying scammed stuff is good neither I am blaming anyone I am just giving you some information to think about.

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1 hour ago, Kate said:

1 month ago I was banned for trading with UNBANNED scammer alt. My bot automatically accepted an offer from them. Back then I told moderator marty birdman that it is just a way to ban anyone who uses automatic accept. Today I was banned for 2 weeks for the same thing. Next time I will be perma banned. It is technically impossible to make bot check backpack value history chart. So everyone who uses auto accept could be easily banned. All bot.tf accounts too.

 

Backpack.tf mods simply don't understand that this rule is just a weapon which some regular users can use as a very powerful banhammer. If their intention is to stop item laundering then make api telling is a certain profile is likely scammer alt or not. Or make api for backpack history chart. Or wait someone to ban all huge bots or even wait for a BAN WAR

 

UlMlVY3.png

I remember you. I managed to report the fresh alt account of a (maybe another) scammer that you may have traded some keys with for an unusual, because a lot of scammed items were being shuffled through that account from another account of the scammer as a scammer fence, within just a matter of hours. It was very clear that it was an alt account from the signs that Marty provided, and even then, you didn't need to look at their trading history.

 

5b54ccfab979d_ScreenShot2018-07-22at19_12_03.thumb.png.5038f7f383c8f678a436fc191240ada8.png

I'm assuming that you're ranting a bit about Backpack.tf Automatic also, as you've been using it to do trades. If you don't know how to use it, or have been told that the code is likely to be buggy and might likely not work as intended, as it says on the Overview page of the application, why would you risk it? It pretty much is the same thing as buying a faulty car. If the owner tells you that there are problems with it and you are aware it's faulty and very likely to break, why on Earth would you buy / use it at such a risk? All problems with the buggy code comes down to you using this outdated code and as noted above, it's your risk that you take on.

 

As for other bots that are not Automatic, they have their own way of performing checks, but most utilise the already available SteamAPI, TF2API and some Backpack.tf API endpoints to provide necessary information about whether to trade with an account, and so are not caught out by scammers.

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6 minutes ago, Mengh facepalms. said:

I remember you.

Yes some kind of scammer alts could be identified for having few playing hours. But scammer can easily buy an aged account with level 2, I am afraid this won't prevent from getting banned too. I was thinking about making my bot automatically decline offers from people with less than 100 hours but this could make me get banned for declining offers from regular users. So I decided to make a more complicated system for a background check but didn't manage to finish it because I spent 3 weeks in a hospital recently. Also any scammer could easily buy an account with game hours, they can upgrade steam level and so on. Even a complicated check doesn't save you from getting banned. 

 

11 minutes ago, Mengh facepalms. said:

As for other bots that are not Automatic, they have their own way of performing checks, but most utilise the already available SteamAPI, TF2API and some Backpack.tf API endpoints to provide necessary information about whether to trade with an account, and so are not caught out by scammers

I am using a custom bot for accepting trades. Bot.tf uses same rules for a background check and every single autoaccept bot can be banned the same way too either for trading with scammers or for declining offers from normal people. Backpack.tf should create special api telling if a certain account looks like scammer alt or no.

 

I can even give all bought items back to the rightful owners so I can be unbanned but apperantly moderators are not interested in scammed people getting their items back:(

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45 minutes ago, Kate said:

Bot.tf uses same rules for a background check and every single autoaccept bot can be banned the same way too

 

AFAIK Bot.tf is now more advanced than that. There is a team of "detectives" that checks any new account that sends a trade offer (I guess only 15 keys and up) to any bot.tf bot. While they do that, the trade is in "manual mode" and the bot owner can accept or decline it.

 

Yeah, I know, it's more difficult for independent bot owners, but other people do code "manual accept" when the bot is not sure and they do lose some trades because of that.

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1 hour ago, Kate said:

Yes some kind of scammer alts could be identified for having few playing hours. But scammer can easily buy an aged account with level 2, I am afraid this won't prevent from getting banned too. I was thinking about making my bot automatically decline offers from people with less than 100 hours but this could make me get banned for declining offers from regular users. So I decided to make a more complicated system for a background check but didn't manage to finish it because I spent 3 weeks in a hospital recently. Also any scammer could easily buy an account with game hours, they can upgrade steam level and so on. Even a complicated check doesn't save you from getting banned. 

Then it wouldn't be an obvious alt unless shady trades were being made through it, plenty of scammers were on its friends list, etc.

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Personally, i think current backpack.tf rules may be a bit too strict.

Automated bots don't have time to completely check a profile, so why enforce these rules, plus these scammers are everywhere. They can sell on marketplace.tf, use a less obvious scammer alt to sell, and much more. The fight against scammers is an uphill one, and so far we are making 0 progress. Valve needs to toughen up on scammers (as well as script kiddies)

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19 hours ago, Kate said:

Whats more I was banned for trading with the same person so it really looks like someone is getting rid of competitors. The competition among unusual buyers is very high today. 

 

But why would they want to kill it? I also want to notice that scrap.tf bots can buy items from obvious scammer alts and they are not subject to ban on backpack.tf(as marty birdman said). Why would you wanna stop item laundering so bad when any obvious scammer alt can easily sell scammed items on scrap.tf? So maybe that is a reason why backpack.tf moderators are killing bot trading? I am not saying that buying scammed stuff is good neither I am blaming anyone I am just giving you some information to think about.

Scrap.tf bots dont use backpacktf, there is no use in banning them.

backpack.tf moderators are not "killing" bot trading.
 

18 hours ago, Kate said:

Yes some kind of scammer alts could be identified for having few playing hours. But scammer can easily buy an aged account with level 2, I am afraid this won't prevent from getting banned too. Also any scammer could easily buy an account with game hours, they can upgrade steam level and so on. Even a complicated check doesn't save you from getting banned. 

 

If this is the case, it would not pass the test of "obvious scammer alt" so its unlikely you will be banned for trading with a user like this

 

18 hours ago, Kate said:

I can even give all bought items back to the rightful owners so I can be unbanned but apperantly moderators are not interested in scammed people getting their items back:(

This is not at all relevant tho....

 

18 hours ago, Daddy Alex said:

AFAIK Bot.tf is now more advanced than that. There is a team of "detectives" that checks any new account that sends a trade offer (I guess only 15 keys and up) to any bot.tf bot. While they do that, the trade is in "manual mode" and the bot owner can accept or decline it.

 

Yeah, I know, it's more difficult for independent bot owners, but other people do code "manual accept" when the bot is not sure and they do lose some trades because of that.

You're correct, minimum amount is 15 keys (since thats what you can get banned for) but bot owners can set the check limit to as low as 7 keys.

During the hold the bot owner can accept/decline the trade or the detectives can add the user to a certain list of users that wont need to be checked again.

 

 

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Why is it (almost) always the person complaining about bots making background checks the one who got banned?

If that wasn't the case anyone could make a bot that doesn't do checks and (willingly or not) trade scammers to get a quick buck and then blame it on the poor bot that can't chack the profile.

Bot.tf puts trades on manual review if they are over >15 keys if not on the whitelist.

 

9 hours ago, Mew2! said:

Personally, i think current backpack.tf rules may be a bit too strict.

Automated bots don't have time to completely check a profile, so why enforce these rules, plus these scammers are everywhere. They can sell on marketplace.tf, use a less obvious scammer alt to sell, and much more. The fight against scammers is an uphill one, and so far we are making 0 progress. Valve needs to toughen up on scammers (as well as script kiddies)

1. They don't need time, they just have to fetch a couple of pieces of information from sources like SR/bp.tf etc. and then process it in a short period of time.

2. You can check item history on marketplace and see if it's from a scammer/scammer alt

3. Loosening up the rules and allowing people to help flip the stolen items surely isn't a good direction to go in the fight against scammers.

 

 

from:

On 7/17/2018 at 11:01 PM, Julia said:

I go to great lengths to avoid trading with scammers. I have authored and utilize a userscript for checking a user’s reputation more easily. My Unusual trading bot also utilizes 7 different resources for checking accounts. If anything seems amiss I must manually check my potential trading partner. However, there are times where I’m either tired or not very cautious and mistakes do happen. There are times where I’ve forgotten to check a user’s reputation before accepting a trade. Though, thankfully it never resulted in me trading with a scammer. I suspect that many others aren’t as fortunate as I am. They would be more susceptible to making mistakes and accruing strikes which ultimately end their trading activities.

As you can see there are ways of making the bot making throughout checks on scammers and if you need help with implementation/advice I'm pretty sure people would gladly help you.

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This is just people who want a way to make a little extra profit by trading with scammers complaining that they're getting caught. This sort of whining happens all the time over similar "cases" such as this and it's always the people who got banned that are complaining. If you're not actively allowing it to happen, there's no reason to worry about the system, which is why nobody that isn't already banned is complaining. Saying you're "too tired" or you're worried about "competition" aren't good excuses, it's easy enough for anyone (myself included) to tell at a glance if someone is a scammer or an obvious scammer alt and if you can't make that distinction you shouldn't be trading and might deserve to be banned in the first place for being so careless with your own money and with your own reputation (assuming that's not the case and you're not actually doing it on purpose which I find more likely in most cases). There's no reason the rules need to be changed over something as obnoxious as this. End of story.

 

-HG

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10 hours ago, Zeus_Junior said:

If this is the case, it would not pass the test of "obvious scammer alt" so its unlikely you will be banned for trading with a user like this

The problem is that anyone could be banned for trading with a person who has nothing except expensive items. It is not technically possible to make bot check it.

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If you are a coder just add these few checks to your bots code. 

If trade value is over 15 or more keys

 

1. Insta decline trades if profile is private.
2. Check steam level (make sure its above 1 or 3) - Level 1 users mostly wont be trading high value items - Only a very less part of the community will be level 1 with a decent backpack

3. Check when the account was created. (If it is less than 6 months) then
4. Check backpack value of trader

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On 26.07.2018 at 10:58 PM, « SɱokEy » said:

4. Check backpack value of trader

What if his backpack value is high but only consists of couple expensive items(which is considered as a scammer alt)?

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38 minutes ago, Kate said:

What if his backpack value is high but only consists of couple expensive items(which is considered as a scammer alt)?

 

That is not considered a scammer alt, that is one possible indication that an account might be a scammer alt. If it meets that but it's profile is above level 10 and it has game hours and is otherwise normal, it's not an obvious alt.

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On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:58 PM, « SɱokEy » said:

If you are a coder just add these few checks to your bots code. 

If trade value is over 15 or more keys

 

1. Insta decline trades if profile is private.
2. Check steam level (make sure its above 1 or 3) - Level 1 users mostly wont be trading high value items - Only a very less part of the community will be level 1 with a decent backpack

3. Check when the account was created. (If it is less than 6 months) then
4. Check backpack value of trader

The problem with that is people who can't code are still being targeted by rules not intended to target them when they just wanted an easy way to trade without having to constantly trade for hours. It is an extremely time consuming affair especially for someone like me and not everybody has the time or patience to do it like some others do. I just don't find it fair that people with auto accept bots should be disproportionally affected by something intended to stop fraud when they are just trying to do trades. Something has to give but I don't have any ideas as to what or who.

 

On ‎7‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:46 PM, HarryG said:

This is just people who want a way to make a little extra profit by trading with scammers complaining that they're getting caught. This sort of whining happens all the time over similar "cases" such as this and it's always the people who got banned that are complaining. If you're not actively allowing it to happen, there's no reason to worry about the system, which is why nobody that isn't already banned is complaining. Saying you're "too tired" or you're worried about "competition" aren't good excuses, it's easy enough for anyone (myself included) to tell at a glance if someone is a scammer or an obvious scammer alt and if you can't make that distinction you shouldn't be trading and might deserve to be banned in the first place for being so careless with your own money and with your own reputation (assuming that's not the case and you're not actually doing it on purpose which I find more likely in most cases). There's no reason the rules need to be changed over something as obnoxious as this. End of story.

 

-HG

The system is flawed and it is clear that, without being an active trader, you are more prone to getting banned simply because you want to make a profit as a bot trader. Your biases show way too clearly and being rude isn't any way to tackle a subject. I'm not saying there aren't people like that but I am saying that not everybody is like that.

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6 hours ago, Kate said:

What if his backpack value is high but only consists of couple expensive items(which is considered as a scammer alt)?

I believe it is possible to pull the whole graph data from a users backpack. Not exactly sure how but was told by a coder it is possible and he is fixing his bot and adding these features 
image.png.71a5a3fc764011873b70fcc6785a4223.png safe graph 

 

if there is a sudden increase in value - the trade will be ignored n held for manual checking

 

image.png.fb2fbd184a418d67b126cb4b8be1aff1.png fishy graph 

 

 

"personally" I am online everyday and I spend about 2-4 hours on bp.tf each days so I do not mind manually checking trades each day if item value is over 15 keys.

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5 hours ago, FlamingNova said:

The problem with that is people who can't code are still being targeted by rules not intended to target them when they just wanted an easy way to trade without having to constantly trade for hours. It is an extremely time consuming affair especially for someone like me and not everybody has the time or patience to do it like some others do. I just don't find it fair that people with auto accept bots should be disproportionally affected by something intended to stop fraud when they are just trying to do trades. Something has to give but I don't have any ideas as to what or who.

I believe people who are not coders are doing manual trades which makes it easier to background checks? This thread is basically about bots getting banned for trading with scammers. 
bots are no different they will be treated like everyone, Its the bot owners responsibility to take care of their bot and its their responsibility to check whom its trading with,

Imagine you get scammed. If he tries to sell that item to a user he would most probs decline the trade as he is a scammer but bots wont and the scammer dumps the scammed item on a bot and will cash out the keys would you be happy?

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12 hours ago, « SɱokEy » said:

I believe people who are not coders are doing manual trades which makes it easier to background checks? This thread is basically about bots getting banned for trading with scammers. 
bots are no different they will be treated like everyone, Its the bot owners responsibility to take care of their bot and its their responsibility to check whom its trading with,

Imagine you get scammed. If he tries to sell that item to a user he would most probs decline the trade as he is a scammer but bots wont and the scammer dumps the scammed item on a bot and will cash out the keys would you be happy?

and the person is going to easily get it back if the scammer keeps it?

Edit: what about other second hand markets? If somebody from a pawn shop buys a stolen diamond they aren't forced to close their doors. Give the diamond back yes but not shut down.

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15 hours ago, FlamingNova said:

and the person is going to easily get it back if the scammer keeps it?

Edit: what about other second hand markets? If somebody from a pawn shop buys a stolen diamond they aren't forced to close their doors. Give the diamond back yes but not shut down.

You're not shut down if you trade scammers, you can still trade(yes it will be much harder cos you can't use bp.tf for listing stuff and more but that's the price you pay for not following the rules).

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On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2018 at 4:33 AM, Bunny the Fluffy Slay3r said:

You're not shut down if you trade scammers, you can still trade(yes it will be much harder cos you can't use bp.tf for listing stuff and more but that's the price you pay for not following the rules).

your doors are shut on backpack.tf and shutting down one store front can harm other business if people use sites like rep.tf before making a trade which they should.

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