Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 So like I’ve been watching this happen for years now and I’m astounded that no one else has done anything. So with bots constantly lowballing unusuals and people scared to offer anything a little higher than what a bot is paying is fucking the community. eg. Burning flames wraith wrap worth 700 keys “obv not” wraith wrap is sold for 50% off at 350 keys. the next day buy orders finna only be paying 125-150 maybe and then no one will be willing to even offer the 350 keys it was originally bought at a massive discount. It it is an endless cycle of when a hat is bought it is constantly lowered in price because of bot buy orders. I’m surprised unusuals can reach up to 1000 keys anymore. And the sad thing is, it’s the same 3-4 kids making massive price resugestions over and over again. Why you guys enjoy destroying items just for accepted price suggestions to get you to your next fake belt? Keep breaking the tf2 economy it’s fun buying massive unusuals for 90% off lmfao. Tf2=ded edit - actually I take that back stop breaking tf2s economy, We don’t got enough traders/players to recover. Start focusing on fucking up dota 2 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 It’s real depressing seeing god-tiers drop in price so much, tf2 ain’t like it use to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedoof Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Were you actually planning on making any suggestions for how to fix the 'problem' or is this thread just to complain? People don't have to pay full price for what they want, and they don't have to sell to buy orders. I don't see the issue here. Hell, you could even call it a good thing. There's still money to be made for people who put in the effort, and in unusuals on the whole are cheaper, then more people will be able to buy what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 I would not like to make a suggestion on how to fix the problem considering it has been done multiple times in the past and nothing has been ever done about it. If you actually think bot buyorders are a good idea ur missin half a brain b. $ to be made?. Lemme explain this quickly. a burning flames law was priced at around 2000 keys, only ONE of them were sold for a gpan. Now the price on the burning law has dropped over 50% down to a thousand keys or sumthin. But now with the new price of the law being 1000 keys now the item only receives undercutting offers of around 500. I have now been offered like 2-3 burning laws on my pan after one was sold for a pan. now and I know that since it WAS purchased for a pan it is no longer WORTH a pan from how the pricing in this site works. I buy a 1000 key item for 500 keys it gets priced at 500. then that item that use to be 1000 keys now 500 only consists of getting offers of -250. after it sells a couple times again for 250 it’ll be repriced at 250 and it’ll get offers around 100. How have none of you recognized this problem. People dont have have to use buyorders but that sure hasn’t stopped people from only offering around buyorders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Not tryna be salty but I’ve never received a good answer about this lmfao. Someone finally tell me what’s up. Maybe one of the guys making these ridicules suggestions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedoof Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1. The Burning Law was never priced at 2,000 keys. If there were ever any sales at 2,000 keys, they were not shown in any suggestion. https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Law/Tradable/Craftable/13 2. It was priced at 1,150 keys because one sold for a pan, yes. Its price was set at the midpoint of a pan's price at that time, 1100-1200 keys. That was the only valid sale shown in the suggestion. Had there been any other valid sales, they would have been taken into account and added to the range. Suggestions are made based on sales. Prices are set based on the evidence provided in those suggestions. If you have any evidence to prove that a price is still accurate, you're welcome to make your own suggestion, or post it in the comments of one that is currently open. And if that evidence outweighs that shown in the suggestion, it will be rejected. Backpack.tf does not, and never has, set prices for items. It only reflects items' values based on recent market activity. An item worth 1,000 keys may get plenty of offers at 500, but if it actually sells for 500 keys multiple times, then can you really say it's worth 1,000 keys anymore? And if that 1,000 key item sells for other 1,000 key items even more often, maybe that's cause to say the 500 key item is now worth 1,000. But I'm probably wasting my time arguing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Last paragraph made 0% sense at all. Your item is worth 200 keys. Buyorders next to always only pay only half or way less of what the hat is worth. Than real players pay about 10-20% more than buy orders. Then once a hat is repriced after it couldn’t sell for what it use to Buy orders continue to cut in half and players continue to offer less and less because of people like to pay like 1-5 keys more than buyorders. I can’t put it anymore simply lmao. This problem has never existed until backpack.tf introduced BUYORDERS the biggest bane of the tf2 economy’s existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 And your wasting your time arguing with me? This is exactly why this problem is never fixed is because the idiots like you have no time to look at simple problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 “Backpack.tf does not, and never has, set prices for items. It only reflects items' values based on recent market activity” i’d like to testifiy how much bullshit came outta your mouth there lmfao. This is a pricing website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woifi The Viking Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Or maybe its overpriced items that are slowly getting closer to their real value. It's mostly just traders clinging to some year old prices hoping to get it again while tons and tons more unusuals are unboxed and the demand for god tiers plummeted. Expect for halloween effects cause those are not unboxed anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Guys still haven’t answered my question with buyorders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Give us some examples of what buy orders you're referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mengh. Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 44 minutes ago, Big Ol Bessie said: Last paragraph made 0% sense at all. Your item is worth 200 keys. Buyorders next to always only pay only half or way less of what the hat is worth. Than real players pay about 10-20% more than buy orders. Then once a hat is repriced after it couldn’t sell for what it use to Buy orders continue to cut in half and players continue to offer less and less because of people like to pay like 1-5 keys more than buyorders. I can’t put it anymore simply lmao. This problem has never existed until backpack.tf introduced BUYORDERS the biggest bane of the tf2 economy’s existence. Before a time of buy orders (~14th May 2015) on backpack.tf was introduced, you pretty much only had people selling unusuals on backpack.tf and offering / listing to buy unusuals on servers, TF2Outpost and forum threads (aside from the occasional reselling of them). Because of this, you would rarely see someone listing to buy a specific unusual with a specific effect on Outpost unless it was a well known unusual hat. You'd really only see sell orders dictating how much someone could pay to buy such an unusual. Because of the feature of buy orders, I believe that there is better transparency in the market for what people are willing to buy such unusuals for, and as Woifi said, it's quite likely that overpriced items are getting closer to their true value as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Open your eyes, and go to the stats of any unusuals. https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Team Captain/Tradable/Craftable/90 https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Team Captain/Tradable/Craftable/16 https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Crone's Dome/Tradable/Craftable/14 https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Crone's Dome/Tradable/Craftable/9 do I gotta pull up more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 With items constantly dropping in price. And how trading works. Items will always be offered less than what there worth which creates a nonstop downworld spiral of dropping prices until a hat drops to a low enough price that it can not be traded for profit almost just swapped between bots. Lemme shoot an example here. https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Grenadier's Softcap/Tradable/Craftable/17 this item is now dropped down to a low enough price that bots pay around 40 and sellers struggle to get 50 for it. This is now a bot hat, being bot and resold almost strictly though bots. I even had to sell one I owned to a bot a while ago because of the no hope in selling it for what it’s priced at anymore because people won’t take the time to buy a unusual if they only have a hope of making 2-3 keys profit each time also considering how many traders are left in tf2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 I do agree buyorders can Be helpfully In certain situations but do you guys not see that over 90% or buyorders are BOTS not real people but BOTS that will always automatically buy your item for 50% off. Peoples price items by buyorders now. Not what the actual price of an item is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 I have yet to run into someone that brings up “but your items buyorder is only paying this much so I’ll offer a key above” if I had a brick of cocaine everytime someone said that I’d be the nig that Pablo Escobar would look up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3.50 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 27 minutes ago, Big Ol Bessie said: Peoples price items by buyorders now. Not what the actual price of an item is. The "actual price" of an item is the price (range) that sellers are willing to sell for, and buyers are willing to pay. If an item gets sold to buy orders, then either 1) No one will pay higher prices, in which case that IS the "actual price" of the hat, or 2) Someone will pay higher prices, in which case the hat will be re-sold for more, and the price will stabilize. Either way, hat values are subjective and always shifting. You can't point to an old price and say it's more relevant than current buyers and sellers. I also noticed that most of the examples you gave were high-tier, multi-class hats. Are you aware of the unlocked multi-class cosmetic crate, and how it affected the market for high-tier multi-class unusuals? In addition, maybe you should look up price history on unusual miscs, and limited effects on any hats (Halloween effects are a good example). You'll see that it's not just a universal downward spiral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macho Man Randy Savage Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 wait, im confused about all of this. if the whole buy order thing was true, how would hats increase in value? suggestions pass all the time that increase an items value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 When one bot goes lower, so does the next and the next. I seriously can't explain this any more simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussellTheBear Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Bot's control buy orders. The bots have a setting via Bot.TF that pushes them to pay the most compared to the rest to be on top, they constantly fight eachother and have downright widdled out any real users from being in the buy orders. TL;DR, The botconomy we all feared is a reality, It's here and it is smashing this economy and everyone is willing to let it happen until everything loses value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Ol Bessie Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 https://backpack.tf/stats/Strange/Australium Ambassador/Tradable/Craftable Another victim to bots. Slowly but surely dropping lower and lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TF2Scourge Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Sleepless ramblings below: Someone was selling a Strange Knifestorm Classy Capper a few months back. I was prepared to pay 300 keys, and a deal was struck that over the next few months, I would collect that amount of keys, understanding that he would sell to someone else "if the right items were offered". He sold it a few weeks back, without telling me, for half of what I offered, 155 keys. There is now a suggestion that is pricing the Capper at 155. What I'm trying to point out in my little story is this: There are people(like me) who are prepared to pay out the ass for the things they want. All it takes is patience. I won't offer this much again. Not because I don't want it, but because obviously it wasn't worth 300. I do have a worry that suggestions are actually shaping the market. Panic sellfing and all that. But that's a small doubt. 6 minutes ago, Big Ol Bessie said: https://backpack.tf/stats/Strange/Australium Ambassador/Tradable/Craftable Another victim to bots. Slowly but surely dropping lower and lower. Notice how the previous price suggestion was a RAISE based on bot.tf stats. Just as the new price is based on bot.tf stats. 1 hour ago, Macho Man Randy Savage said: wait, im confused about all of this. if the whole buy order thing was true, how would hats increase in value? suggestions pass all the time that increase an items value The buy order thing isn't true. You have to understand, the Mods and everyone who contributes their time towards Price suggestions and trying to keep everything as up-to-date as possible.... We aren't (at least I don't think any of us are) Stock analysts or Economics professors or any kind of expert in any field that would help us. We are people contributing to the site. We do our best, using rules set up around the real world's money system, by the community, for the community. This usually results in slightly inaccurate price points, because of untraceable or outlier sales, rounding, and sometimes estimates. But this is because we can always change it. We aren't setting prices, just trying our best to give the best possible guess at what a hat/item is worth right now. If we had a perfect system, where we could trace every sale, and take into account almost every variable that a certain trade has.... Well, maybe something would be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 3 hours ago, sscourge said: Someone was selling a Strange Knifestorm Classy Capper a few months back. I was prepared to pay 300 keys, and a deal was struck that over the next few months, I would collect that amount of keys, understanding that he would sell to someone else "if the right items were offered". He sold it a few weeks back, without telling me, for half of what I offered, 155 keys. There is now a suggestion that is pricing the Capper at 155. I own it now. I'm about to list it, but I'm happy to give you first crack at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbackpacktf Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, hugh said: I own it now. I'm about to list it, but I'm happy to give you first crack at it Smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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