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Open discussion on rules for trading with scammers

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Julia    973
Julia

TLDR; I think backpack.tf’s trading with scammer bans are outdated and too strict. I have proposed a slightly laxer system in the final paragraphs.

 

Dear all, I’m Julia. Most of you probably already know me as one of many Unusual traders. I don’t think it would be unfair to say that I have been around these parts for some while. While I usually like to joke around and not take anything too seriously I have had some persisting thoughts regarding trading policy here at backpack.tf which I wanted to share, and to garner your opinions on. I appreciate your time in reading this post. The topic I want to discuss is backpack.tf’s rules regarding bans for trading with scammers.
 
The current rules are as follows:
“If a trader unknowingly fails to meet these expectations, bans will be issued as follows:
(1) First offense - 3 days to 1 week depending on the severity of the action
(2) Second offense - 2 weeks to 2 months depending on the severity of the action
(3) Third offense - permanent ban (may be appealed after 6 months)
 
If a trader knowingly fails to meet these expectations and is found to intentionally trade with scammers, the ban will instantly be a permanent one.”

 

Source:

 

As a bit of history, some of you will remember years ago, SteamREP would mark/ban traders who would repeatedly (or intentionally) trade with scammers. The rule was later removed in 2016 after much criticism.

 

Source: https://forums.steamrep.com/threads/policy-change-trades-with-scammer-policy-end-of-life.119528/

 

The criticism leading to removal was: honest traders were being marked; essentially sharing the same punishment as scammers themselves, some of which whom have no remorse for taking what they can from other people. To many of these traders their ban marked a halt to their trading activities. It was a harsh punishment for a few mistakes.

 
Around the time this SteamREP rule was removed, backpack.tf implemented its own set of rules. It was only after then that backpack.tf would begin to ban traders from using its service as punishment for trades with scammers. Although the rules set by backpack.tf are much less strict than that of SteamREP’s old rules, they could still be improved to make the trading environment better for everyone.

 
The way backpack.tf is stacking up bans for this type of offense is becoming reminiscent of old SteamREP policies. As backpack.tf holds an immense role in trading currently, the ability to use it freely is essential to most traders and its bans have an impact on how people trade.
 
The current rules dictate: three strikes, you’re out. Regardless of how long you’ve been trading, regardless of how many trades you’ve made. You only get three strikes. In my time here, I know of many well-known traders awaiting their third strike that will abruptly conclude their trading career. Many of these people possess thousands of dollars worth of items.
 
As a long-time trader I’ve personally never been banned for trading with scammers. However, I have most definitely made mistakes while trading. Those mistakes were accepting offers I otherwise wouldn’t have accepted, miscounting keys, listing the wrong effect hat on the market, listing items for the wrong price, rushing changes into my bot without proper testing, and so on. After over 17,000 trades and nearly 100,000 Steam Community Market transactions, I feel that I can safely say that I’m an experienced trader. Even then, I believe I could make mistakes and no longer have the same freedom to trade. I enjoy trading and it’s not something I’d want to happen.
 
I go to great lengths to avoid trading with scammers. I have authored and utilize a userscript for checking a user’s reputation more easily. My Unusual trading bot also utilizes 7 different resources for checking accounts. If anything seems amiss I must manually check my potential trading partner. However, there are times where I’m either tired or not very cautious and mistakes do happen. There are times where I’ve forgotten to check a user’s reputation before accepting a trade. Though, thankfully it never resulted in me trading with a scammer. I suspect that many others aren’t as fortunate as I am. They would be more susceptible to making mistakes and accruing strikes which ultimately end their trading activities.
 
Ever since the rules for background checks were established they haven’t seen much change. The current rules do not consider length of time between aberrant trades. It could be a month, it could be over a year. Going a year without trading with any scammers is a long time. Should a trader be so severely punished for trading with a scammer for the third time, even if it’s been over a year since their last trade? Please bear in mind, I am not saying that we should make the rules so relaxed that we condone trading with scammers. I do not think scammers should have an easy way of offloading their stolen goods. I myself would not do anything differently if the rules were to be changed.
 
I don’t know the perfect solution to the problem, but I want to propose a change. Like a driver’s license points systems for traffic violations, make it so that a trader collects points for each trade with a scammer. When the trader collects so many points within a certain period of time they are permanently banned. The points would reset after a certain period of time, say a year. This should be fair for everyone in the long-term of things and still prevent traders from trading with scammers.
 
Thanks for reading. This is something that’s been on my mind getting back into trading and I’d like to hear everyone else’s thoughts on the matter, and if anyone else has any other suggestions for rule changes.

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hugh    30
hugh

Hey all, for the people who don’t know me, I’m the Hugh with the red sun picture, another of the unusual hat traders. For those that do know me, you probably think I’ve been trading for a while now. I’ve been trading unusuals for 3.5 years at this point, and while I haven’t racked up as much experience as Julia (I’m sitting at 11k trades, according to Steam), I agree with what she’s said and to manage the best I can with the rules, I have changed my actions. 


I’m one of the people on my last strike for trading with scammers – the next one will be my last. I honestly cannot remember the first time I was banned, but I definitely remember the second time. It was almost two years ago. I was in a rush to get out of the house to meet my then girlfriend for a date. I overlooked the red strikethrough, and that cost me. It probably sounds like an honest mistake, but nonetheless, I was disappointed in myself over that situation as it was entirely avoidable. Since then, I am meticulous now (1) I do not rush under any circumstances, (2) I don’t trade if I don’t have a good ten minutes to sort things out (3) I will hassle the report moderators in asking ‘can I trade this person?’ every time I’m unsure.


The point I’m trying to make is that, while I am definitely experienced enough to know what to do, being human makes me liable to make mistakes eventually – one of these is going to slip through the cracks despite my best efforts to prevent it. When it does, I will be permabanned on this platform, and since backpack.tf is so essential to trading nowadays, not unrealistically speaking, it would spell the end of my trading career, and I will have 30-40k USD of hats I locked away. I’d like to think that I’m not the kind of person that the rules are looking to punish. Trading with scammers intentionally, sure. Repeated negligence, sure. 


I cannot speak for all the people who own bots, they’re in an entirely worse situation. I do everything the old fashioned way, and I’m still in this situation, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is to run bots and somehow ensure your bots do not auto-accept a scammer trade. I can already think of a few situations: glitches in code, updates that break code, bot randomly just stops checking for scammers and 3 autoaccepted scammer/alt trades later, permabanned.


My view of the current ruleset is they lack forgiveness. Whilst I do think the current ruleset is too strict, I think Julia’s solution is too lax. Don’t entirely forgive me and reset me to 0 strikes at the end of each year, that could be abused by unscrupulous traders. I’d be happy with reducing my strike count by 1 each year of no trading with scammer bans. At this rate though, I will eventually also be banned, and I hope that does not happen.


Very interested for bot owners and the people that run bot.tf to weigh in here


PS: I have saved the hat that got me banned the 2nd time, as a persisting reminder: http://backpack.tf/item/5035874920. The day I made that mistake was the 9th of September 2016
 

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Torb | Elite Spell Trader™    274
Torb | Elite Spell Trader™
2 minutes ago, hugh said:

Hey all, for the people who don’t know me, I’m the Hugh with the red sun picture, another of the unusual hat traders. For those that do know me, you probably think I’ve been trading for a while now. I’ve been trading unusuals for 3.5 years at this point, and while I haven’t racked up as much experience as Julia (I’m sitting at 11k trades, according to Steam), I agree with what she’s said and to manage the best I can with the rules, I have changed my actions. 


I’m one of the people on my last strike for trading with scammers – the next one will be my last. I honestly cannot remember the first time I was banned, but I definitely remember the second time. It was almost two years ago. I was in a rush to get out of the house to meet my then girlfriend for a date. I overlooked the red strikethrough, and that cost me. It probably sounds like an honest mistake, but nonetheless, I was disappointed in myself over that situation as it was entirely avoidable. Since then, I am meticulous now (1) I do not rush under any circumstances, (2) I don’t trade if I don’t have a good ten minutes to sort things out (3) I will hassle the report moderators in asking ‘can I trade this person?’ every time I’m unsure.


The point I’m trying to make is that, while I am definitely experienced enough to know what to do, being human makes me liable to make mistakes eventually – one of these is going to slip through the cracks despite my best efforts to prevent it. When it does, I will be permabanned on this platform, and since backpack.tf is so essential to trading nowadays, not unrealistically speaking, it would spell the end of my trading career, and I will have 30-40k USD of hats I locked away. I’d like to think that I’m not the kind of person that the rules are looking to punish. Trading with scammers intentionally, sure. Repeated negligence, sure. 


I cannot speak for all the people who own bots, they’re in an entirely worse situation. I do everything the old fashioned way, and I’m still in this situation, so I can’t imagine how difficult it is to run bots and somehow ensure your bots do not auto-accept a scammer trade. I can already think of a few situations: glitches in code, updates that break code, bot randomly just stops checking for scammers and 3 autoaccepted scammer/alt trades later, permabanned.


My view of the current ruleset is they lack forgiveness. Whilst I do think the current ruleset is too strict, I think Julia’s solution is too lax. Don’t entirely forgive me and reset me to 0 strikes at the end of each year, that could be abused by unscrupulous traders. I’d be happy with reducing my strike count by 1 each year of no trading with scammer bans. At this rate though, I will eventually also be banned, and I hope that does not happen.


Very interested for bot owners and the people that run bot.tf to weigh in here


PS: I have saved the hat that got me banned the 2nd time, as a persisting reminder: http://backpack.tf/item/5035874920. The day I made that mistake was the 9th of September 2016
 

Definitely agree that removing all the points ect is too lax, but as it stands right now, for people with  2 past bans, they risk any trade they make to be their last perse. I've used a bot.tf bot and there's definitely been moments that could've screwed me and gotten me perma'd. https://imgur.com/a/xRHVlJs heres just a few i took the time to find, had any of them been accepted i'd likely be perma banned. Onto my ideas: Either every 6 months 1 point goes away, much like how you can appeal a perma ban in 6 mths assuming you made no trades with scammers, this would work the same, you prove you haven't traded any scammers and 1 point is removed from your record. The repeat offenders would still be banned but the innocent traders who occasionally make a human error have a shot at redemption. My other idea is that you have to have made 3 trades with scammers in a 6 month period for a perma ban to be put on your account. Not 100% sure how this would work, but it does feel harsh that people can screw up a couple times in the past, and then a year or 2 later 1 mistake and they're gone. Anyways, these are just my thoughts, curious to hear other peoples.

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Julia    973
Julia

I'd also like to note that in the 2 months I've been running my Unusual trading bot, scammer alts have attempted to sell it something on a near-daily basis. I've reported a few of them leading to their accounts being banned. Thankfully my checker is very capable at picking them up though it also flags many normal traders and I do miss many deals because of that.

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Svode    13
Svode

My name is Svode, and I'm a bot owner via bot.tf and avid trader within the community. I am also on my second strike and greatly fear getting a third by accident. Both accidents were my own fault and I do admit that I should've been more thorough on my checks. Since then I have always asked report mods such as Carnage and OverduePixels, along with other backpack.tf members, for advice whenever I am unsure about a certain person.

 

I do agree with an idea of some sort of point system, although one that works more actively and less drastically. I feel that report mods and other admins should be involved with the process, alongside the person who has the strikes. I feel like the user who has strikes should be able to request an interview with a report mod or admin 3-6 months after they got that strike. In that discussion, they should convince the other side that they've updated how they trade and that they would like to be cleared of some (or all) points depending on the scenario. The mods then should consider the persons

  • trade experience
  • trust reviews by the community
  • community opinion of the user
  • severity of the trades they performed (how much was bought/sold)
  • risk of being banned from bp.tf permanently

in choosing whether or not to relieve the user of their marks, along with other talking points. They should also talk to other admins and mods about the person so that one POV would not be opinionated against the user (so that personal opinions don't harm this process of law)

In my opinion, an interview system can help the user get in touch with admins themselves and speak to them directly about the issue.

 

I believe that humans are creatures who make mistakes; it's part of our nature. Humans are also people who can change and redeem themselves, and changing our current system can help make the website a more comfortable place for all traders to use.

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3.50    1570
3.50

In my opinion, the rules make sense in at least 99% of cases. 

 

You only get banned for trades >15 keys.  So let me ask this: who knows about and uses this website, but accepts a trade >15 keys in value without checking values first?  (No one.)

And if you've checked values, you've got no excuse to not spend 30 seconds and check your trading partner.

 

Things are a bit different for bot owners, perhaps--higher volume and automation mean there's a higher potential for accidentally trading with someone dirty--but you also have to hold bot owners to the same standards as everyone else, so I don't know if that's an excuse at all. 

 

For what it's worth, I do think that unintentionally trading with scammers should be treated differently than intentionally doing so, or doing so as a result of not caring. 

 

For example: if scammers find a new and creative way to set up an alt and trick your bot filters and sell you some stuff from what is considered "obvious alts", so you get in trouble for it, but you adapt and take necessary measures to prevent it from happening again, I would certainly agree with that strike against you being removed after a certain amount of time.

 

As far as regular people doing regular trading goes, I've got >6k trades on this account and don't find it the least bit restricting to check my trading partners.  In fact, I would do it even if I didn't have to, because it's very easy and I don't want to help dishonest people profit. 

It's really not a problem.  For anyone who disagrees, just think of the real-world repercussions of possessing stolen goods (even when it's not your fault), and how much more severe they are.

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hugh    30
hugh
25 minutes ago, 3.50 said:

As far as regular people doing regular trading goes, I've got >6k trades on this account and don't find it the least bit restricting to check my trading partners.  In fact, I would do it even if I didn't have to, because it's very easy and I don't want to help dishonest people profit. 

It's really not a problem.  For anyone who disagrees, just think of the real-world repercussions of possessing stolen goods (even when it's not your fault), and how much more severe they are.

 

I don't know about if the repercussions are worse in the real world. If i  get caught for picking up a stolen $30 item, I don't lose access to 30k USD of my other stuff eg a car, in the real world. I do have higher stakes, but most people around here have a few grand.

 

The other difference is real world penalties for possession will probably not be permanent or lifelong? - I'm not certain on this so don't quote me, not a law grad.

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3.50    1570
3.50
21 minutes ago, hugh said:

I don't know about if the repercussions are worse in the real world. If i  get caught for picking up a stolen $30 item, I don't lose access to 30k USD of my other stuff eg a car, in the real world. I do have higher stakes, but most people around here have a few grand.

 

The other difference is real world penalties for possession will probably not be permanent or lifelong? - I'm not certain on this so don't quote me, not a law grad.

Well, a criminal record can impact your ability to gain/hold employment, which will certainly impact...every aspect of the rest of your life, forever.  Granted, that's not likely to happen from anything worth $30.  Misdemeanor/felony (or whatever, I'm not a law grad either) makes a big difference, and I believe you have to hit a certain value to have a felony.

 

Also though, getting banned from backpack.tf does not make you lose access to your stuff.  It's not like a steam trade ban.

At worst, you won't be able to list anything on this site, but you would still be able to see the site and make use of all the pricing knowledge.  You could still add people and negotiate direct deals (and since you wouldn't be a scammer in that scenario, they would have no valid reason to refuse to trade with you), use other sites, use the SCM, etc. (If you don't think SCM trading is viable, I am a mainly SCM trader that hates trading and only does it when necessary, [meaning I work full-time and only trade <5 hours per month, if I even feel like it at all] and it's easily gotten me from nothing with almost no investment to where I am). 

 

Also, I don't know the success rate, but perma-bans from the site can be appealed after 6 months.  You can't appeal a criminal record after 6 months.

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Golf io    7
Golf io
1 hour ago, 3.50 said:

For what it's worth, I do think that unintentionally trading with scammers should be treated differently than intentionally doing so, or doing so as a result of not caring.

I personally feel that when you intentionally trading with 1 scammer for 1 time you dont derserve a perma ban because its a first offense and you are punished less than more but i feel that when you do it twice then its a perma cause you did it again anyway and you didnt learn from your previous mistake. I'm not saying that i hate this rule, I'm just saying that when you do something once it will not a biggy or something big. I understand you allowed the scammer to make a profit which you did it knowling is a very bad thing.

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zol    7
zol

Yea Julia, you are right. But we all know answer: "If you want use our site - follow our rules". They will ban traders rather than do anything to dont give scammers easily send offers and so on. There are alot of solutions, like make limit for sending offers if their account dont follow their "background checks" and so on. But its too cool for us, you would better be permanently banned for 3 20 keys trades with obvious scammer. And doesnt matter on your progress and so on. Thats silly and unfair but thats how it works guys. As I said, backpack going to be outpost v2, which's piece of shit now (not only because of their ban system, but this is too).

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Torb | Elite Spell Trader™    274
Torb | Elite Spell Trader™
18 minutes ago, Golf io said:

I personally feel that when you intentionally trading with 1 scammer for 1 time you dont derserve a perma ban because its a first offense and you are punished less than more but i feel that when you do it twice then its a perma cause you did it again anyway and you didnt learn from your previous mistake. I'm not saying that i hate this rule, I'm just saying that when you do something once it will not a biggy or something big. I understand you allowed the scammer to make a profit which you did it knowling is a very bad thing.

eh first time knowingly should be perma, it shows you have utterly no care for the rules. You see someone shouldn't be traded and you trade them anyways because you care about profit more than doing the right thing, i just think you are biased because you are banned for that specific reason.

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Golf io    7
Golf io
19 minutes ago, zol said:

Yea Julia, you are right. But we all know answer: "If you want use our site - follow our rules". They will ban traders rather than do anything to dont give scammers easily send offers and so on. There are alot of solutions, like make limit for sending offers if their account dont follow their "background checks" and so on. But its too cool for us, you would better be permanently banned for 3 20 keys trades with obvious scammer. And doesnt matter on your progress and so on. Thats silly and unfair but thats how it works guys. As I said, backpack going to be outpost v2, which's piece of shit now (not only because of their ban system, but this is too).

agree

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hugh    30
hugh

If it is a system of 'our rules, our site, get lost', that's fine. I will continue my patronage, but I'll view the management in a different light. But we've all spoken to the moderators at one point or another, I think they are very reasonable people who are looking to make the fairest rules for everyone. If they didn't give a crap and did not care about what we thought, Wolfi would not be unsurreptitiously watching this thread in the background haha!

As long as they give us a decent rationale for the rules, I'm happy.

 

At this point in time, I don't think the rules are entirely fair though

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HASSAN    38
HASSAN

Hi. I go by a lot of different names, but I’ve been here for ~5 years now, and have traded some pretty crazy stuff. Although I’ve never been banned for trading with a scammer, I’ve certainly come close, and hope (but don’t expect) that this will be taken under advisement. I have no doubt that if I had made nearly as much transactions as Julia, or some of the other people with major influence in this economy, I would have made a few mistakes, and the fact that one mistake every 2 years, or one every 40,000 trades, so long as the person reaches 3x that, can lead to a permanent ban.... It just doesn’t seem like the right way to enforce ethics. I support banning people for trading with scammers 100%, but also agree that there should be more that goes into it. 

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Bahamo    17
Bahamo

The point of banning people that trades with scammers is to discourage people from scamming because noone will buy scammed items. So removing the points or reseting it would make the reason useless.

 

Heres a tip: Just dont be greedy and trade with scammers ;)

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Weedoof    1087
Weedoof
13 minutes ago, Bahamo said:

The point of banning people that trades with scammers is to discourage people from scamming because noone will buy scammed items. So removing the points or reseting it would make the reason useless.

 

Heres a tip: Just dont be greedy and trade with scammers ;)

 

Have you even read anything in the thread so far? The whole reason this discussion is happening is because people don't always realize they're trading with scammers until it's too late. We're human, we make mistakes. Sometimes these mistakes cost us a lot, as a few people ITT have stated. Knowingly trading with scammers is one thing, accidentally doing so because you're in a rush or have something else that requires more attention at the time is quite another.

 

In my opinion, as far as the topic goes - I feel the rules were created with the best of intentions, and should be treated as such. However, for large traders it can become an issue, as three trades over four or more years can cause the death of your career, as has been stated numerous times. I do like Torb's idea, though, where you lose a point every 6 months. Maybe in addition to that, reaching 6 total points could result in a mark? In my opinion, accidentally trading with scammers two or three times by mistake is one thing, but if you haven't learned after five or six, at that point it's on you.

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Toughsox    598
Toughsox

Trading with scammers is a no-no for obvious reasons. Those that bitch about the rules are the ones usually caught up in them.  As a Staff member of Outpost, I can say that MANY permanently banned users have been offered a chance at another appeal.  The majority of them are turned down for the following reasons....... 

A: Usually they are requested for their trade history during their ban time and most of the times, they never learned any lesson and continued to trade with scammers. 

B: Or, as it most typical, they make an alt account and evade that original ban.

 

PS....one of you that whined how unfair Outpost is and was perm banned just had another new alt of yours banned.   You're welcome   B)

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Bahamo    17
Bahamo
49 minutes ago, Weedoof said:

 

Have you even read anything in the thread so far? The whole reason this discussion is happening is because people don't always realize they're trading with scammers until it's too late. We're human, we make mistakes. Sometimes these mistakes cost us a lot, as a few people ITT have stated. Knowingly trading with scammers is one thing, accidentally doing so because you're in a rush or have something else that requires more attention at the time is quite another.

 

Yeah they made mistakes but they didnt learn, now theyre at 2 strikes. Which means its still their fault. Not the system.

 

Now the tip isnt for them. Its for everyone because usually scammers have a "nice deal" which is basically equivalent to selling your soul to the devil, which in this case getting banned. Now once again, dont be greedy and trade with scammers.

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HASSAN    38
HASSAN
1 hour ago, Weedoof said:

In my opinion, as far as the topic goes - I feel the rules were created with the best of intentions, and should be treated as such. However, for large traders it can become an issue, as three trades over four or more years can cause the death of your career, as has been stated numerous times. I do like Torb's idea, though, where you lose a point every 6 months. Maybe in addition to that, reaching 6 total points could result in a mark? In my opinion, accidentally trading with scammers two or three times by mistake is one thing, but if you haven't learned after five or six, at that point it's on you.

This is the best proposal I’ve ever seen IMHO. 

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Mr Furley    51
Mr Furley

My opinion, as a trader who has been around for far too long, is that the sites should block the scammers. People should be free to buy on the classies or mp or even outpost w/o worrying. In the sign up process it should check for issues. Still if it was a trade from a server yes check but sites should do the majority of the work

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Torb | Elite Spell Trader™    274
Torb | Elite Spell Trader™
38 minutes ago, Toughsox said:

Trading with scammers is a no-no for obvious reasons. Those that bitch about the rules are the ones usually caught up in them.  As a Staff member of Outpost, I can say that MANY permanently banned users have been offered a chance at another appeal.  The majority of them are turned down for the following reasons....... 

A: Usually they are requested for their trade history during their ban time and most of the times, they never learned any lesson and continued to trade with scammers. 

B: Or, as it most typical, they make an alt account and evade that original ban.

 

PS....one of you that whined how unfair Outpost is and was perm banned just had another new alt of yours banned.   You're welcome   B)

Didn't know outpost was still around. Half the time you cant even access the site, the other half its just a place for people to catalog their past offers. Not too sure how its relevant to this thread either, op has their way of doing stuff, bptf does too.

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HappyCat    0
HappyCat

 

why cant people remove their comments it makes for weird things like this that has nothing to do with the thread

 

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Torb | Elite Spell Trader™    274
Torb | Elite Spell Trader™
16 minutes ago, HappyCat said:

I just got sharked :C im a newbie and I just traded a ton of items just beacause he said the item was special beacause it had items. I was looking on scrap.tf to see how much it would sell and it would sell for only 4 ref when he said it was 12 ref ;C

 

um don't wanna be rude but in what way is this relevant to the discussion?

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DanielDee    79
DanielDee

I have seen numerous very wealthy noobs get banned on here when there not even aware of this site. Hell about 3 years ago i started playing mvm with someone who had over 10K hours 800 tours who never even heard of THIS site. Who also dropped two pans and had a BP worth about 9K so assuming all players know this site is a bit far fetched to say the least. As i stated before though. If people arent aware of this site and trade with scammers on trade servers then the ban here will make very little difference at all. if they continue to trade on said servers. It only affects noobs when regular experienced traders go to trade with this noob who snapped up what was perceived to be a bargain after doing background checks. Penalising noobs gustapo style who trade with scammers will not solve anything. Noobs will go elsewhere regardless of ban status if they are not even aware of the third reich here.

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Bahamo    17
Bahamo
31 minutes ago, DanielDee said:

I have seen numerous very wealthy noobs get banned on here when there not even aware of this site. Hell about 3 years ago i started playing mvm with someone who had over 10K hours 800 tours who never even heard of THIS site. Who also dropped two pans and had a BP worth about 9K so assuming all players know this site is a bit far fetched to say the least. As i stated before though. If people arent aware of this site and trade with scammers on trade servers then the ban here will make very little difference at all. if they continue to trade on said servers. It only affects noobs when regular experienced traders go to trade with this noob who snapped up what was perceived to be a bargain after doing background checks. Penalising noobs gustapo style who trade with scammers will not solve anything. Noobs will go elsewhere regardless of ban status if they are not even aware of the third reich here.

At least scammers now have harder time trading since most traders uses this site and follow the rules right? There wont be a lot of rich noobs in the world for them to trade.

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