Puppier Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I wanted to ask what the view is regarding using the new trust system to give +rep to people you know in real life. I have a couple friends who do TF2 trading and I definetly trust them, and I know they've done numerous amounts of trades as well. Even if you do trust them, is there a stigma on giving +rep to people you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacustjack Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 No. Nobody knows that you know them and nobody really cares either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Pitt Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 My opinion is that's probably the best case of giving +rep, knowing them personally for a long time and knowing they've never scammed anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It does not matter. Very few pedantics care about rep, only when doing cash trades. And backpack.tf rep? for trading stuff with refined metal or keys? GTFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
✔ P I X E L A T E D ✔ Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Gotta love people contradicting brad, but tbh I have to agree. Just because you know them doesn't really help, even if you can vouch for them it doesn't count for anything unless you are trustworthy. And there's the problem of "you could be in on the act etc". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Completely agree with Brad. I personally have given rep to people I have known for 10+ years and who I completely trust. This is "trust" and not "+rep, good trader." You may never have even traded with the individual, but you know them on a personal level more than anyone else can and are able to vouch for their integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 It does not matter. Very few pedantics care about rep, only when doing cash trades. And backpack.tf rep? for trading stuff with refined metal or keys? GTFO the purpose of bptf rep is to only rep people you actually trust since you'll get -rep every time someone you've +rep'd becomes a scammer. @Brad How does that -rep work....Like what happens if you've repped a someone who becomes a scammer. Does your total just go down 1, or is there actually a -trust point added with: "You've repped someone who became a scammer...be more cautious" or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 the purpose of bptf rep is to only rep people you actually trust since you'll get -rep every time someone you've +rep'd becomes a scammer. The question in my mind is who cares about + or - backpack.tf, sourceop or any other rep ? Backpack.tf has notoriously allowed trade/ VAC banned people from steam to use this website in the past, hence abetting them just because the mods/admins knew them from some time, WTF. Should they not get a *-tust* with a note tagging them as accomplice to cheaters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The question in my mind is who cares about + or - backpack.tf, sourceop or any other rep ? Backpack.tf has notoriously allowed trade/ VAC banned people from steam to use this website in the past, hence abetting them just because the mods/admins knew them from some time, WTF. Should they not get a *-tust* with a note tagging them as accomplice to cheaters? Vac banned means absolutely nothing, and the only reason trade banned users get banned on trading sites is because they can't trade; there are plenty of people who get falsely trade banned. And a LOT of people care about SOP rep. Go try and do a paypal trade without rep; its annoying as fuck--you literally have to jump through hoops to pull it off. Scammers are all banned here, so thats not an issue. If you don't know anything about paypal trading, than you probably shouldn't be commenting about it. P.s. vac banned users aren't banned on any trading sites (unless of course they also happen to be scammers/have a trade ban). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Vac banned means absolutely nothing, and the only reason trade banned users get banned on trading sites is because they can't trade; there are plenty of people who get falsely trade banned. And a LOT of people care about SOP rep. Go try and do a paypal trade without rep; its annoying as fuck--you literally have to jump through hoops to pull it off. Scammers are all banned here, so thats not an issue. If you don't know anything about paypal trading, than you probably shouldn't be commenting about it. P.s. vac banned users aren't banned on any trading sites (unless of course they also happen to be scammers/have a trade ban). I have sold about 400+tf2 keys without any sort of SOP rep in last 2 months or so (I only sell when I need cash of something), so do not give me that SOP rep crap. My trade would still be there on SOP, if you care at all. All the buyers went first, irrespective of who they were. Even Geel from scrap.tf, was not an exception. Falsely trade banned? Are you saying that Valve's decision was incorrect? I have no words on this for you. And VAC bans implies cheating in game - which is more or less like depriving the fair gamers of a fair and aweswome game experience. That could be very well termed as being scammed of their game time. PS: If you are going to term a rep as trust on this website then should very well acknowledge all the possible ways of breach of trust too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Pitt Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 the purpose of bptf rep is to only rep people you actually trust since you'll get -rep every time someone you've +rep'd becomes a scammer. @Brad How does that -rep work....Like what happens if you've repped a someone who becomes a scammer. Does your total just go down 1, or is there actually a -trust point added with: "You've repped someone who became a scammer...be more cautious" or something? It's a good question, still working out the specifics but most likely an automated permanent -rep type of deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Pitt Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The question in my mind is who cares about + or - backpack.tf, sourceop or any other rep ? Backpack.tf has notoriously allowed trade/ VAC banned people from steam to use this website in the past, hence abetting them just because the mods/admins knew them from some time, WTF. Should they not get a *-tust* with a note tagging them as accomplice to cheaters? This is a funny comment. You're saying this like I knowingly allowed scammers to use the site. When I first started this site, I didn't even know SteamRep existed. The first staff guy (Parazit) was a tagged scammer and I didn't even know. When I found out, he was removed from staff and I implemented the SteamRep status on the site and at the same time blocked tagged scammers from using most of the site functions. Eventually, I became aware of a WebAPI from VALVe that allowed me to see if the person was trade banned, and that was added then. VAC ban doesn't mean anything about trading, but the information is there. It's up to you to make a decision about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have sold about 400+tf2 keys without any sort of SOP rep in last 2 months or so (I only sell when I need cash of something), so do not give me that SOP rep crap. My trade would still be there on SOP, if you care at all. All the buyers went first, irrespective of who they were. Even Geel from scrap.tf, was not an exception. Falsely trade banned? Are you saying that Valve's decision was incorrect? I have no words on this for you. And VAC bans implies cheating in game - which is more or less like depriving the fair gamers of a fair and aweswome game experience. That could be very well termed or being scammed of their game time. PS: If you are going to term a rep as trust on this website then should very well acknowledge all the possible ways of breach of trust too. Selling without rep is easy, buying, becomes much harder--especially if you're buying something more than a key. I.e. have fun buying a $600 unusual without rep. Yes. Plenty of people who have been trade banned for bullshit reasons. And go ask an outpost/sr/sop admin if vac banned users are allowed to use the site. Guaranteed the answer is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 This is a funny comment. You're saying this like I knowingly allowed scammers to use the site. When I first started this site, I didn't even know SteamRep existed. The first staff guy (Parazit) was a tagged scammer and I didn't even know. When I found out, he was removed from staff and I implemented the SteamRep status on the site and at the same time blocked tagged scammers from using most of the site functions. Eventually, I became aware of a WebAPI from VALVe that allowed me to see if the person was trade banned, and that was added then. VAC ban doesn't mean anything about trading, but the information is there. It's up to you to make a decision about it. I have no doubts in my mind that you did not knew about Steamrep (your moderators however were and they chose to ignore it), and believe me I do not give a damn about that trash website. I am only refering to it as your trust model uses that website as it's core. I was a very rigorous trade untill last year. I saw many "marked scammers" allowed to use backpack.tf despite of their tags and bans from steamrep and outpost. As far as being trade banned was concerned, the perfect example here would be the case of LONG218. That douchebag was trade banned from Valve on apparent accusations of trading with carders, and yet, despite knowing all about it you and your moderators chose not to ban that guy from this website, let me add even your beloved Helen archived the report against him (she did not bann him). He was awarded ban for being a prick with the suggestions. Is that sort of action worth of trust? PS: If you are going to term a rep as trust on this website then should very well acknowledge all the possible ways of breach of trust too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Selling without rep is easy, buying, becomes much harder--especially if you're buying something more than a key. I.e. have fun buying a $600 unusual without rep. Yes. Plenty of people who have been trade banned for bullshit reasons. And go ask an outpost/sr/sop admin if vac banned users are allowed to use the site. Guaranteed the answer is yes. Lol dude you are one hypocrite guy. Decide first if SOP is required at all or not? I can even give you examples where people have bought unusuals (tf2 + dota2 both) worth $600 without any SOP rep thread or that sort of rep system ( I would need to dig alot but I am sure I had some friends who sold their stuff to newbies) Dude I am least concerened about other websites while on this forum. Brad is trying to implement a trust system and not a rep system. There are shit number of ways to breach a user's trust. If you are going to award +trust based on the years you have known that person, the person may have just made an account 1 week ago, then -trust should be awarded to the same bunch if the same user get's VAC banned automatically. It's a matter of terminology that Brad is trying to adopt there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have no doubts in my mind that you did not knew about Steamrep (your moderators however were and they chose to ignore it), and believe me I do not give a damn about that trash website. I am only refering to it as your trust model uses that website as it's core. I was a very rigorous trade untill last year. I saw many "marked scammers" allowed to use backpack.tf despite of their tags and bans from steamrep and outpost. As far as being trade banned was concerned, the perfect example here would be the case of LONG218. That douchebag was trade banned from Valve on apparent accusations of trading with carders, and yet, despite knowing all about it you and your moderators chose not to ban that guy from this website, let me add even your beloved Helen archived the report against him (she did not bann him). He was awarded ban for being a prick with the suggestions. Is that sort of action worth of trust? PS: If you are going to term a rep as trust on this website then should very well acknowledge all the possible ways of breach of trust too. I knew long for a long time, and theres no way he knew the keys were carded; he was just a dumbass. As soon as he found out they were carded he began to sell them for buds and then sell the buds. If he knew they were carded then he would've been doing that all along--and wouldn't have gotten stuck with 1500~ keys in his backpack; AND if he knew anything about paypal trading he also wouldn't have been charged back over a thousand dollars. Long was just a dipshit who should never have been paypal trading. He was stupid and got screwed. Did he scam anyone? No. Was he marked as a scammer? No, because he wasn't one. He was just stupid. O, and as for one of the bullshit vac bans, check out Paty (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198047194260/) He was perfectly trustworthy, got hijacked and valve pretty much told him to go fuck himself. Dude I am least concerened about other websites while on this forum. Brad is trying to implement a trust system and not a rep system. There are shit number of ways to breach a user's trust. If you are going to award +trust based on the years you have known that person, the person may have just made an account 1 week ago, then -trust should be awarded to the same bunch if the same user get's VAC banned automatically. It's a matter of terminology that Brad is trying to adopt there. You seriously need to think before speaking. There are plenty of people who've been vac banned who are perfectly trustworthy. Theres a big difference between using a hack and actually scamming--and most of the people who've been vac banned were using a troll hack anyway. And of course, Brad is going to put some system in place to prevent fake/bullshit trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppier Posted January 30, 2014 Author Share Posted January 30, 2014 I personally like the trust system. SteamRep is only for if someone scammed you and you have absolute proof. There is one person in paticular I almost traded with that gave me the creeps that I've been able to point out to other people now. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I knew long for a long time, and theres no way he knew the keys were carded; he was just a dumbass. As soon as he found out they were carded he began to sell them for buds and then sell the buds. If he knew they were carded then he would've been doing that all along--and wouldn't have gotten stuck with 1500~ keys in his backpack; AND if he knew anything about paypal trading he also wouldn't have been charged back over a thousand dollars. Long was just a dipshit who should never have been paypal trading. He was stupid and got screwed. Did he scam anyone? No. Was he marked as a scammer? No, because he wasn't one. He was just stupid. O, and as for one of the bullshit vac bans, check out Paty (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198047194260/) He was perfectly trustworthy, got hijacked and valve pretty much told him to go fuck himself. You seriously need to think before speaking. There are plenty of people who've been vac banned who are perfectly trustworthy. Theres a big difference between using a hack and actually scamming--and most of the people who've been vac banned were using a troll hack anyway. And of course, Brad is going to put some system in place to prevent fake/bullshit trust. So you are saying that Valve made the wrong decisions here because you knew those trustworthy people? I give up. You win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 So you are saying that Valve made the wrong decisions here because you knew those trustworthy people? I give up. You win. He was a SR mm up until he got banned, he had so many better alternatives then what he did. You give up? I'm not the one who lives in the past with his head up his ass. O, and then there was the issue that was going on about a year+ ago where middlemen were getting trade banned. Theres a reason why for a period of time, virtually everyone stopped middlemaning (including SR mm). Eventually all those trade bans either got reverse or the time of the trade ban expired. So, yes, valve fucks up all the time. Seriously....don't go badmouthing someone if you don't know what you're talking about; it just makes you look like a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogeyman™ Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 He was a SR mm up until he got banned, he had so many better alternatives then what he did. You give up? I'm not the one who lives in the past with his head up his ass. O, and then there was the issue that was going on about a year+ ago where middlemen were getting trade banned. Theres a reason why for a period of time, virtually everyone stopped middlemaning (including SR mm). Eventually all those trade bans either got reverse or the time of the trade ban expired. So, yes, valve fucks up all the time. Did valve appoint those middlemen? Did valve knew that they were middlemen at all when they got banned? Did valve not reverse their bans when they were informed of the truth with definitve proofs? So to put a constraint on an individual knowing that he or their known accomplice are causing an inconvenience to their customer is fucked up. Mate your idologies would fuck up a business pretty bad. Bad mouthing? Dude I have not made any bias comments on any individual just because I know him. I have based my comments on the profound actions of Valve. You are the one actually defending people because you claim to know them personally or they might have done you a few favours. I would ask you to re-consider your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Did valve appoint those middlemen? No, but middlemanning a trade is now a crime (ban worthy)? hmmmm interesting. Did valve knew that they were middlemen at all when they got banned? Yes Did valve not reverse their bans when they were informed of the truth with definitve proofs? No, many of the banned users had to wait months before the ban wore off and then were on probation for months. So to put a constraint on an individual knowing that he or their known accomplice are causing an inconvenience to their customer is fucked up. These middlemen were all legit and providing a useful service for people, and in no way inconveniencing anyone. Mate your idologies would fuck up a business pretty bad. Bad mouthing? Dude I have not made any bias comments on any individual just because I know him. I have based my comments on the profound actions of Valve. You are the one actually defending people because you claim to know them personally or they might have done you a few favours. I would ask you to re-consider your statement. Yet you're the one who's complaining about how sites are run and pretending that valve is infallible. Yea, your right, i don't just look at whats on the surface, i look into things and see whats really going on--something you clearly never learned how to do. And again, lets be sure to judge sites based on their actions years ago; because theres no possible way that a fully formed site could ever be different than the same site when it was still in its infancy. Clearly the only thing you know about long is he made key suggestions, he was an idiot/troll, and he had lots of keys, oh, and he got trade banned. Thats it. You clearly have no idea about anything else that happened with him. So how could you possibly say anything bad about him without knowing everything. Shit you caught me...*Brad, i guess i'll just have to give back that bribe you gave me, sorry i couldn't do a better job*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 @Awesome, don't let an idiot drag them to their level and beat you with experience. He has no idea what he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppier Posted January 31, 2014 Author Share Posted January 31, 2014 Completely agree with Brad. I personally have given rep to people I have known for 10+ years and who I completely trust. This is "trust" and not "+rep, good trader." You may never have even traded with the individual, but you know them on a personal level more than anyone else can and are able to vouch for their integrity. Personally, when I used to run a minecraft server my rule was: "No one gets admin unless I can punch you in real life or I've known you for 3 years" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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