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i'm surprised it took as long as it did for a straight guy to start telling everyone that people, 100% of the time, choose a sexual orientation. and to cast aside any research as lunatic science. i'm also not surprised that gender and sex are the exact same thing to him.

 

sex ed and social ed have a looooong way to go.

I'm not sure either. I guess sex=genitals, so trans people are of one sex, but of the other gender?

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Wow. I don't even know how to reply to that. I'd like to know which definition of 'natural' you're using here.

 

 

I'm seriously surprised to hear you say that.

 

So your saying that its personal choice who you're attracted to, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with who you are? really?

 

 

Look in the mirror, what do you have on you? Look, you have something hanging from your midparts: you are a male. You were born to mate with a female.

 

You attempt to mate with other males. NEWS FLASH--> you are doing it WRONG! That is not how yo do it! You are doing something nature did not intend you to do! Therefore it is unnatural.

 

Oh, you have attractions/urges? When you were 16 and you have the urge to drive the mini-van at 150 mph, did you do it? When your boss/teacher made a spectacle of you in front of everyone else, did you go buy a gun, come back and kill your boss/teacher because of an "urge"?

 

Just because you have "attractions" or "urges" doesn't mean you HAVE TO SATIATE THEM. We are HUMANS, we can control ourselves.

 

Has it occured to you that maybe not all urges or attractions are natural :o ? So if you play on your unnatural attractions, well, you die off and im saying LITERALLY die off because you don't reproduce.

 

You can be gay, whatever do what you please, but DO NOT tell me that it is completely natural and nature intended some people to be gay. Give me a break.

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Ok, acting on being gay could be seen as unnatural. Fine. But that doesn't mean it's not natural. If someone pisses you have you have the urge to retaliate. Whether it not you do it is a choice, but the urge isn't a choice. So do homosexuals choose to have sex with the same gender? Yes. Do they choose to be attracted to the same gender? No.

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Look in the mirror, what do you have on you? Look, you have something hanging from your midparts: you are a male. You were born to mate with a female.

 

You attempt to mate with other males. NEWS FLASH--> you are doing it WRONG! That is not how yo do it! You are doing something nature did not intend you to do! Therefore it is unnatural.

 

Oh, you have attractions/urges? When you were 16 and you have the urge to drive the mini-van at 150 mph, did you do it? When your boss/teacher made a spectacle of you in front of everyone else, did you go buy a gun, come back and kill your boss/teacher because of an "urge"?

 

Just because you have "attractions" or "urges" doesn't mean you HAVE TO SATIATE THEM. We are HUMANS, we can control ourselves.

 

Has it occured to you that maybe not all urges or attractions are natural :o ? So if you play on your unnatural attractions, well, you die off and im saying LITERALLY die off because you don't reproduce.

 

You can be gay, whatever do what you please, but DO NOT tell me that it is completely natural and nature intended some people to be gay. Give me a break.

 

So you are saying we were not designed to masturbate because that does not involve someone of the opposite sex.  By fact, all urges and attractions are natural.  To survive we must want.  If you lacked want and would not eat then you would die (<super basic example).  At verious times and places it is not beneficial to act on them but how ca you translate that to intimacy. 

 

Edit:  If a God is designing it then that is a question for that entity.  Nature does not design it allows (evolution).  One can argue by fact that sexual orientation is not a determinant of survival.

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Ok, acting on being gay could be seen as unnatural. Fine. But that doesn't mean it's not natural. If someone pisses you have you have the urge to retaliate. Whether it not you do it is a choice, but the urge isn't a choice. So do homosexuals choose to have sex with the same gender? Yes. Do they choose to be attracted to the same gender? No.

Technically speaking homosexuals are people who actually have sex with people of the same gender. People who are attracted to people of the same gender are homophiles iirc.

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Technically speaking homosexuals are people who actually have sex with people of the same gender. People who are attracted to people of the same gender are homophiles iirc.

Technically....but imo (and most) if you're attracted (turned on) by the same gender, then you're gay. 

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Technically....but imo (and most) if you're attracted (turned on) by the same gender, then you're gay. 

Yeah, gay people are homophiles.

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I will never understand how people can say homosexuality is natural.

If you want to talk about natural and unnatural, it is natural to view homosexuality as unnatural behavior. Why? For all of written history, heterosexuality is the only way species have propagated. Mating between a male and a female is normal and natural and has been that way since the beginning of time. Mating between two males or two females is impossible. There is ZERO evidence of functional homosexuality in nature. You have to teach someone that homosexuality is "natural" because why?-- it goes against everything we see and experience in nature: male is male, female is female, male mate with female, female have baby, propagate species. repeat.

 

(I am purposely leaving out asexuality and other isolated phenomena, they do not pertain to this discussion)

 

I am only only ONLY answering the question: "is homosexuality natural?". Ask yourself, is what im saying wrong? Did I say anything that is false?

 

I have nothing left to say

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I will never understand how people can say homosexuality is natural.

 

If you want to talk about natural and unnatural, it is natural to view homosexuality as unnatural behavior. Why? For all of written history, heterosexuality is the only way species have propagated. Mating between a male and a female is normal and natural and has been that way since the beginning of time. Mating between two males or two females is impossible. There is ZERO evidence of functional homosexuality in nature. You have to teach someone that homosexuality is "natural" because why?-- it goes against everything we see and experience in nature: male is male, female is female, male mate with female, female have baby, propagate species. repeat.

 

(I am purposely leaving out asexuality and other isolated phenomena, they do not pertain to this discussion)

 

I am only only ONLY answering the question: "is homosexuality natural?". Ask yourself, is what im saying wrong? Did I say anything that is false?

 

I have nothing left to say

You're making the assumption that the sole purpose of sex is reproduction, which it really isn't. 

 

Sex helps you connect with another person allowing you to share a deeper bond. It allows you to be more productive, it makes you less depressed, etc... If the sole purpose of having sex was to reproduce, then surely there would be a more effective way of doing so (since its possible for woman to have sex without getting pregnant).

 

Unlike most mammals, who only have sex when in heat, humans have sex all the time. So, if the sole purpose of sex was reproduction then why have sex if the woman isn't fertile? Most animals exhibit signs when they're in heat, yet humans don't. So why? If the sole purpose was reproduction then why would humans not make other humans aware that they're fertile and ready for impregnation like most other animals? 

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You're making the assumption that the sole purpose of sex is reproduction, which it really isn't. 

 

Sex helps you connect with another person allowing you to share a deeper bond. It allows you to be more productive, it makes you less depressed, etc... If the sole purpose of having sex was to reproduce, then surely there would be a more effective way of doing so (since its possible for woman to have sex without getting pregnant).

 

Ok all that may be true.

 

That doesn't make it natural. It still doesn't work that way.

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Ok all that may be true.

 

That doesn't make it natural. It still doesn't work that way.

It happens in nature. People aren't forced. How is it not natural?

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It happens in nature. People aren't forced. How is it not natural?

if your definition of natural is anything that happens in the confines of nature, that is pretty broad. I dont know if anything can be called unnatural in that case.

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if your definition of natural is anything that happens in the confines of nature, that is pretty broad. I dont know if anything can be called unnatural in that case.

It is broad, yes. What is the definition you're using?

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Let me put it this way, maybe it will open up my perspective to you.

 

Can you walk on your hands? Are you physically able to?

-Well yes, some people can but some people arn't physically able to.

 

Does walking on your hands fulfill some of the same needs that walking on your feet does?

-Yes, you get to point A to point B just as if you used your feet. Maybe a bit slower.

 

Is there times in the animal kingdom where an animal has walked only on their two front limbs? (That does not normally do so)

-Yes, it happens

 

Is there a case where an animal has exclusively used its front two limbs to walk and has completely ceased from walking like others of its species have.

-Um...

 

Can a person to adopt a lifestyle of walking on their hands exclusively or in addition to using their feet?

-I guess...

 

We already know you can walk on your hands, now is the human body designed/built to "walk" with the hands.

-No, not really.

 

Now answer this quesion:

Is walking on your hands natural or unnatural, like, actually go upside down and suspending yourself on your hands?

What if you went out in public or at a friends house and started asking around "Is it natural for human being to walk on their hands?" What kind of response would you expect to get.

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That doesn't make it natural. It still doesn't work that way.

Sir J-j-jon, PhD in Natural Phenomenons 

 

Guys, I think he knows what he's talking about here. I mean, he IS a scientist.

 

Now answer this quesion:

Is walking on your hands natural or unnatural, like, actually go upside down and suspending yourself on your hands?

What if you went out in public or at a friends house and started asking around "Is it natural for human being to walk on their hands?" What kind of response would you expect to get.

TIL Homosexuality can be compared to how an organism moves around.

Sir J-j-jon, PhD, you'll never cease to amaze

 

Why in the world is this even a question that is being asked?

 

It is painfully obvious that homosexuality is unnatural as in it is a person's choice. Do you seriously have to ask?

 

I don't care what lunatic "scientists" say about hormone imbalance or natural occurrence. I don't care if scientists found an idiot horse or crazed monkey who mistook a male for a female and tried mating with it. I don't care if they found two males or two females that took care of a baby. The only time you have the excuse that you were "born that way" is if you are one of the 1 in 1000000000000 people who are actually born with the WRONG pair of genitals, otherwise take a look in the mirror to find out how you were born.

 

I am amazed that there is serious debate, it should be a no-brainer.

Do you have any gay friends or acquaintances? Have you ever asked them? Do you have any proof to back up your claim? 

Geez, for a guy with a PhD in Natural Phenomenons, you sure don't know exactly how to work the Scientific method, eh?

 

Also, there are at least 3 transexuals in my school of 2500 alone.

I think the odds of being born that way is more than 1 out of 1000000000000

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Sir J-j-jon, PhD in Natural Phenomenons 

 

Guys, I think he knows what he's talking about here. I mean, he IS a scientist.

 

 

TIL Homosexuality can be compared to how an organism moves around.

Sir J-j-jon, PhD, you'll never cease to amaze

 

 

I didn't know you needed a PhD in anything to answer the question: "is homosexuality natural". It is a pretty simple question.

 

-> Human body not designed/built to engage in homosexual sex yet you can and people do

-> Human body not designed/built to engage in walking on hands yet you can and people do

 

???

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Sir J-j-jon, PhD in Natural Phenomenons 

 

Guys, I think he knows what he's talking about here. I mean, he IS a scientist.

 

TIL Homosexuality can be compared to how an organism moves around.

Sir J-j-jon, PhD, you'll never cease to amaze

 

Do you have any gay friends or acquaintances? Have you ever asked them? Do you have any proof to back up your claim? 

Geez, for a guy with a PhD in Natural Phenomenons, you sure don't know exactly how to work the Scientific method, eh?

 

I think it's more about opinions.

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Ok....

 

Natural doesn't imply its how we were designed. Natural means it happens by nature, i.e. out of ones control, i.e. "born that way". 

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I didn't know you needed a PhD in anything to answer the question: "is homosexuality natural". It is a pretty simple question.

 

-> Human body not designed/built to engage in homosexual sex yet you can and people do

-> Human body not designed/built to engage in walking on hands yet you can and people do

 

???

I've never seen someone walk on their hands before, 'cept photoshop. Have you? Like, out side of the interwebs?

And you weren't really answering anything when you said this was a "no-brainer".

 

People are born homosexual, just like people are born with behaviors and limbs...

Unless they were in a relationship with the other sex and it turned out badly, so they went the other direction

But even then I'd say the body knew it wasn't going to work out.

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Ok....

 

Natural doesn't imply its how we were designed. Natural means it happens by nature, i.e. out of ones control, i.e. "born that way". 

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Ok....

 

Natural doesn't imply its how we were designed. Natural means it happens by nature, i.e. out of ones control, i.e. "born that way". 

 

 

I've never seen someone walk on their hands before, 'cept photoshop. Have you? Like, out side of the interwebs?

And you weren't really answering anything when you said this was a "no-brainer".

 

People are born homosexual, just like people are born with behaviors and limbs...

Unless they were in a relationship with the other sex and it turned out badly, so they went the other direction

But even then I'd say the body knew it wasn't going to work out.

Let me refer you two to my original post:

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6494-how-natural-is-homosexuality/page-3&do=findComment&comment=72044

You are not "born" homosexual. I do not care if scientists and other people tell me that you can be. You are born with either male or female parts and you are born to mate with the opposite sex.

 

If scientists told me the sky was green, gravity is a figment of my imagination, and some people are born to mate with their own sex I would not believe them one bit.

 

Oh but I have urges: Let me refer you to my second post

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6494-how-natural-is-homosexuality/page-3&do=findComment&comment=72192

 

It is possible for urges and attractions to be unnatural. It came from your human brain. You are supposed to mate with the opposite sex not with the same sex, that is how life works. Sure, you can do it and sure, it may placate your need for intimacy and emotion blah blah blah but that still doesn't change the fact that that is not how the human body functions.

 

We are different from animals, your guy's definition of natural makes that distinction, right? "Natural: existing in nature and not made or caused by people"

 

Homosexuality as it exists in humans (for intimacy and emotion etc. etc.) does not exist in nature. Homosexually as a function of reproduction does not exist in nature.

 

Homosexuality is unnatural

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It is possible for urges and attractions to be unnatural. It came from your human brain. You are supposed to mate with the opposite sex not with the same sex, that is how life works. Sure, you can do it and sure, it may placate your need for intimacy and emotion blah blah blah but that still doesn't change the fact that that is not how the human body functions.

 

We are different from animals, your guy's definition of natural makes that distinction, right? "Natural: existing in nature and not made or caused by people"

 

Homosexuality as it exists in humans (for intimacy and emotion etc. etc.) does not exist in nature. Homosexually as a function of reproduction does not exist in nature.

All fetuses start out as females until later in the pregnancy when they either become a male or continue to become a female. Either way, everyone starts out a woman. So, that means that its possible for a man to be born with a woman's brain;, a brain thats attracted to the opposite sex (i.e. a man). 

 

Yet all species have a sub-group of homosexuals. And last time i checked most animals are probably too stupid to make a conscious decision to have sex with the same gender; keep in mind, most animals mate based on pheromones--so why would an animal choose to mate with an animal thats not excreting the correct pheromones? Clearly, said animal is attracted to the "wrong" pheromones; i.e. the pheromones of the same gender. 

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All fetuses start out as females until later in the pregnancy when they either become a male or continue to become a female. Either way, everyone starts out a woman. So, that means that its possible for a man to be born with a woman's brain;, a brain thats attracted to the opposite sex (i.e. a man). 

 

Yet all species have a sub-group of homosexuals. And last time i checked most animals are probably too stupid to make a conscious decision to have sex with the same gender; keep in mind, most animals mate based on pheromones--so why would an animal choose to mate with an animal thats not excreting the correct pheromones? Clearly, said animal is attracted to the "wrong" pheromones; i.e. the pheromones of the same gender. 

 

Situation A would be called a birth defect.

 

Situation B doesn't exist. There is evidence of broad homosexuality "sub-groups" in nature like there is in humans.

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