Many of a kind hats getting single sale prices

[PlusEighteen]

I see this happening a lot. Unusuals that are 5, 9, 20+ of a kind getting price suggestions reporting one sale and having it pass. I find it extremely unlikely that a hat with 20 known versions in the system only has one recent sale.

Ex: Strange Tesla wing Mann, 19 of a kind, priced from one sale.

Alternatively, I see hats with long, recent histories getting one or two sales picked and reported and the rest ignored. (See: massed flies archer's sterling)

 

The biggest problem is that only premium members can see all sales, and premium members are for profit, so reporting sales that might reduce their pack value will not happen (unless pressured by moderation, but mods can find all sales themselves). Plus you aren't allowed to share premium search results, even to make a more accurate price. The system seems designed to fail.

 

Well, it succeeds in making the rich richer and letting vippers shark/quickbuy, but it fails in giving an accurate representation of the market, which is what I thought backpack was for, but that doesn't seem to be the case, seems to be more about devaluing other people's items since trying to raise something you own almost never passes. (Unless you're popular ofc.)

 

I don't know what I expect from this thread, this stuff tends to just get swept under the rug. Everyone knows if you don't like a suggested price you should find other sales, but that's pretty hard when histories are gated behind a paywall and the donators making suggestions don't share all the histories.

 

All backpack is doing is capitalising on sharkers. $5 will not dissuade a sharker from getting premium to shark with when you make $50+ from one successful shark.

[eXuberant]

I can see where you are coming from but i sense a lot of bullshit in what you wrote.

1)Mods check for sales , for example - https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5952ceb8cf6c7577a25b3440 , the fact that you don't know that mods check for all movements of the hat gives me an idea that your post is based on imagination and feelings rather than facts. Places where you see sales getting ignored are not usually relevant/ not traceable / or not usable  

2) "and premium members are for profit" Ugh there are price suggester s? that only price suggest and hardly trade  (Example : https://backpack.tf/u/76561198081201910 , Burny has almost 4000 price suggestions accepted , 1000 of them for unusuals , and has 0 classifield listings for sale/purchase , can provide tons of examples )

3)

2 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

reporting sales that might reduce their pack value will not happen (unless pressured by moderation, but mods can find all sales themselves).

If you are aware of what actually happens around in the backpack community you would know about the competitions being held , this brings updates to a ton of hats. Irrespective of who owns hats , there are literally tons of suggestors , if i don't update my hat , someone else will.

4)

2 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

Everyone knows if you don't like a suggested price you should find other sales, but that's pretty hard when histories are gated behind a paywall

You talk like backpack.tf hides the history from you, you can always ask people to check for sales and update you , or just ask people to make price suggestions , 9/10 people wont refuse if they are free , try asking Alberny

5)

2 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

Well, it succeeds in making the rich richer and letting vippers shark/quickbuy,

Well, the only thing that you wrote that actually makes sense , sharkers benefit a lot from premium.

 

Issue is that you can't expect bp.tf to provide this service for free , this website needs funding , and a way to generate revenue , donations directly go to whose who manage the website (mods/developers). Hosting a website , running it and maintaining it takes a LOT of Money to say the least .

 

Backpack.tf is about checking prices of items , which you CAN do without premium , its about creating price suggestions , which you CAN do without premium ( you will need assistance from a person who has premium , its about selling and buying , you can make reasonable classified listings without premium. So the core features of this website ARE FREE , i'm not here to suck backpacks dick , i also have issues specially with the ban system and how it deals with sharkers , but the points that you raised hardly make sense as you seem to have 0 clue that mods don't blindly accept/reject a suggestion , they discuss amongst themselves and check for sales , and often interact with the suggester in order to make the suggestion more accurate

[Teeny Tiny Cat]

3 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

Plus you aren't allowed to share premium search results, even to make a more accurate price. The system seems designed to fail.

 

Just to be clear on this point - we do not punish users for sharing information from premium if it's for the purpose of making price suggestions. If you join our discord there are plenty of users and moderators who are happy to provide histories or research sales and help you build suggestions.

[PlusEighteen]

1 hour ago, eXuberant said:

*snip*

1. I do know mods check for movements some of the time. I also have seen suggestions pass with a single proof when the item is several of a kind with no moderation post, often the same day the suggestion is made. I've also seen incorrect suggestions pass, so no, moderators do not research every time. Some might, but some don't. That's a person to person problem.

2. I think it's obvious that they are the exception, not the rule. 

3. Competitions to devalue everything that isn't theirs, yeah. Getting richer isn't just about getting more for yourself, it's also about making others have less.

And yeah, someone else will report your sale/purchase and they'll report based on inventory history alone, which is easily manipulated and often not correct. Or they'll report your quickbuy as a regular purchase so you can't make anything.

4. I have asked premium users making suggestions with little proof to get more, the answer is usually 'get premium lol' or 'only sale I can find' and the suggestion sits open for a month until a moderator shows up, but until then you have an open price that people use to value the item, even if it's low/high/just wrong.

 

At the very least, they could make the "last exchanged" number public, so if there are more sales more people can be aware they exist, or at least confirm there are no other sales to be reported.

 

You know different people than I do and you're involved with the community. I'm just here for business because the other options are barely options at all.

 

@teeny, how does one differentiate between someone looking to make a suggestion and someone just hunting histories? One can be both, too.

[Apo]

On 8/3/2017 at 8:45 AM, PlusEighteen said:

The biggest problem is that only premium members can see all sales, and premium members are for profit, so reporting sales that might reduce their pack value will not happen

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/59738b66cf6c7576d63a7ec4

[PlusEighteen]

10 hours ago, Apo said:

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/59738b66cf6c7576d63a7ec4

That's to protect their purchase and have a more recent price than the 3 year old one.

A 10 key drop over 3 years man, come on.

[Apo]

3 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

That's to protect their purchase and have a more recent price than the 3 year old one.

A 10 key drop over 3 years man, come on.

 

A lot of rare Halloween items have been increasing in price..

ex: 'A 150 key raise over 9 months man, come on.'  https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/War Pig/Tradable/Craftable/74

 

Previous sale with the CV Pig would have been a raise. https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197961465738#!/compare/1484006400/1484092800

Also, 2 years ago it was used in a sale for an AF KE valuing it at 500+ [even after applying overpay] (closed sugg)

So, theoretically, the drop is more than 10 keys

 

If I were to try and manipulate people to overvalue my hat, I could:

1) bring those old outdated sales up

2) compare the CV pig to other rare h'ween effect pigs, and use the outdated price to my advantage (ex: "Underpriced since its outdated, check similar effect pigs. [Spellbound Pig]").

3) try and conceal my sale to keep it outdated and "underpriced"

I know this is what some other people do, but not all.

 

Alternatively, I can suggest what it sold for recently.

(Side note: I offered both owners more than what I ended up paying (both declined those offers), but one owner really just wanted a certain hat, so I got it for them.)

[PlusEighteen]

8 hours ago, Apo said:

 

A lot of rare Halloween items have been increasing in price..

ex: 'A 150 key raise over 9 months man, come on.'  https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/War Pig/Tradable/Craftable/74

The War Pig was sold by a top 30 for their buyout, and the buyer made the suggest to protect their purchase. What did they pay for the veil they offered? I'm confident it wasn't 500 keys, or they would have sold the veil for pure.

War Pig is also 5 of a kind, but getting a single sale price. Also the veil is duplicated but using the clean price?

 

Your second one is another top 100 trader. People with tons that can heavily overprice and eventually sell because they have the only one on the market, and people like you that claim the thing you bought is worth what you paid because you paid it and no one else bought one in the last 3 months.

 

Is that what I have to do? Find hats that have had no movements in the last 3 months, then overpay hard for one and put in a suggestion at my payment?

[Apo]

5 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

The War Pig was sold by a top 30 for their buyout, and the buyer made the suggest to protect their purchase. What did they pay for the veil they offered? I'm confident it wasn't 500 keys, or they would have sold the veil for pure.

War Pig is also 5 of a kind, but getting a single sale price. Also the veil is duplicated but using the clean price?

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Rare halloween items have been on the rise in general.

 

5 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

Your second one is another top 100 trader. People with tons that can heavily overprice and eventually sell because they have the only one on the market, and people like you that claim the thing you bought is worth what you paid because you paid it and no one else bought one in the last 3 months.

Your logic here is wrong. Just because an item is 1/1 market doesn't mean it will sell for an insane/high/bp price.

 

Anyways, I'm a collector, so 1 of 2 things will happen.

 

1) [Less likely] Another collector will buy the hat off me for something higher (I am not listing it for sale)

2) [More likely] I will cash out eventually and end up losing a decent amount of money, selling to a for profit trader.

 

5 hours ago, PlusEighteen said:

Is that what I have to do? Find hats that have had no movements in the last 3 months, then overpay hard for one and put in a suggestion at my payment?

If you want to. Good luck reselling for that though.

If you're in it for profit, and not because you like the hat, you're gonna have a bad time.

[MeFigaYoma]

You seem to be overestimating the number of usable sales on the average unusual. For an example, let's take my recent suggestion on the Nuts n' Bolts Tippler's Tricorne: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5974d092cf6c75527026ee75

 

There are 36 in existence. How many of those have had a sale in the past two months? A grand total of two (mods: sorry if this is too much sharing from Premium Search, I can delete if you want); this one and this one. Now, as a price suggester, you must go through every recent sale and look for ones that are

1. Not bulk
2. Not cash
3. Not quicksells
4. Not outliers
5. Not for outdated hats with no other usable sales
6. Not happen over the span of 5 minutes so that nothing shows up in the compare
7. Not be duped sales below the current clean price / when there are higher clean sales
8. Not tf2mart

Most sales fall into at least one of these categories, so they are not usable. I'd say around half the time there are no usable sales even when there are recent sales shown in Premium Search. Of course you don't notice those times because no suggestion is made. To you it looks like "usable" sales are cherry-picked out of a sea of dozens of recent exchanges for the benefit of the conspiring Premium profit whores and corrupt price moderators, who only seek to overprice their own hats or devalue yours. This is simply not the case.

[PlusEighteen]

19 hours ago, MeFigaYoma said:

*snip*

I see plenty of 1, but I see quicksells reported as normal trades all the time, such as https://backpack.tf/suggestion/596dd594cf6c7541002aeff4 and if you only report one sale (and the rest are 'bulk' or 'untraceable' because adding someone to ask what they paid/sold is unheard of) you don't have any outliers. 

Sales that happen over 5 minutes are only invalid if you go by backpack history alone, which again, is easily manipulated.

Cash sales are reported all the time. No, you can't see the value from trade history alone. You'd have to actually speak with someone involved with the trade, which does happen.

 

I believe that sometimes you only have one usable sale. But in those situations there should be a wait for more sales, not a price change to what one person out of 20+ owners agreed on.

 

And really, a nnb tippler? Try something where all sales won't be within a few dollars of each other, like the sunbeams winter woodsman.

21 hours ago, Apo said:

 

20 hours ago, Apo said:

I think you missed the point of what I was saying. Rare halloween items have been on the rise in general.

Yeah. Limited edition items largely owned by top level traders that can ask anything they want and eventually sell because there's no competition. I think it's fair to say that the first two years of Halloween effects have settled and are now primarily in the hands of permanent owners or for profit traders that will never lower their prices. (like 2OG with his 6 month old listings right at backpack value)

 

Scroll down the classifieds for harvest moon, darkblaze, or poisoned shadows hats. Tell me how many are NOT owned by people in the top 1000 users. (remember ranking doesn't count marketplace inventory.)

21 hours ago, Apo said:

Just because an item is 1/1 market doesn't mean it will sell for an insane/high/bp price

It depends on the item and how much demand there is. Honestly 1:1 items shouldn't be priced at all, since they're worth whatever the person that wants it is willing to pay, since there's zero competing sellers to price against. You might be able to have an idea of what it's worth based on similar hats and effects, but the fact that it's one of a kind means it will never sell for less than the seller wants, unless they knowingly lower their price.

 

 

My main issue is that people are looking at one side of the backpack history and taking that as fact, when that just simply is not true a lot of the time. You have a broken system and people blindly relying on that broken system creating broken results that people are blindly interpreting as truth.

 

I mean, I want this fixed. I want the system to work. I don't want to have to exploit the limits of the system to make profit like the top level does. How often do you see a suggestion with a top level's purchase instead of a sale? Unless it was two top levels trading with each other of course.

 

I also really love the constantly changing definition of "quicksell." If you own a hat and don't list it for 6 months, then list it for sale and sell same day, that's not a quicksell because the history shows you had it 6 months. If you buy an item off SCM, it's never a quicksell because there's no way to see how long it was there. If you buy something on marketplace, it's only a quicksell if the seller claims it was or it has an accurately traceable history, which doesn't record asking prices, so history doesn't help anyway.

 

At this point I'm considering setting my pack to private just so my sales and purchases stop being traced incorrectly. Just push everything to marketplace and take offers there. I can also trickle down my prices to acceptable amounts easily.

 

I want to be done with this lost cause. I like making money here (and I honestly wanted to try doing trades as a second job) but getting sabotaged all the time by ignorant people with incorrect information is getting so old. The rules protect the top level and screw over everyone else.

 

I do believe that most people suggesting are just reporting their interpretation of the histories without much malicious intent, but histories are just not accurate or reliable. People are relying on a broken system for facts. That's a problem I can't just ignore.