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xosmin

i don't get it

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xosmin

why was the x2 classifieds listing cap removed for premium users ?

 

according to this, doubling the listings was a mistake

http://imgur.com/LG5upu0  (http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/user/5658-rafiozol/)

 

according to this:

 

http://imgur.com/a/nUPZI, it was a perk included in the premium  package

http://backpack.tf/premium/subscribe  -> A 2x bonus to your Classifieds listing cap (applied after everything else).

 

 

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cares

The 2x multiplier still applies, just before we applied a 2x additional multiplier for everyone. So if you had premium you'd have 4x the listings. That has been removed now, with some limits and bonuses changed.

 

Before you would have 100 base, +100 for joining the group/twitter. Now the free slots you can get are capped to 100 (70 base + 30 group/twitter). Donations now grant 5 slots per $1 instead of 2 per $1. The $35 bonus is now +25 instead of +20 (was intended to be +10).

 

Suggestion slots remain the same, but I plan on adding an incentive to non-unusual suggestions soon.

 

The FAQ and other site pages never mentioned the hidden 2x multiplier, hence why it was removed.

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Pyotoru

WTF. I also have like half less clasifieds slots than before, which is unfair. Its like forcing users to pay more for slots. And all is made without any information for users...

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Jessica

WTF. I also have like half less clasifieds slots than before, which is unfair. Its like forcing users to pay more for slots. And all is made without any information for users...

I totally agree, it's been this way since i first started playing this game a few years ago. Donators get everything yet people who spend ACTUAL money don't get free listings and stuff and now we got our listings CUT down.

 

Donator get fancy coloured font

Donator gets to refresh backpacks 45 seconds PREMIUM IS 2 MINUTES.

 

they get so many nice perks that is PERMANENT, if you are premium for 2+ years and then cancel ALL your perks go away it don't show you contributed shit to the website.

 

Basically it just feels like they favour donators over premium at this point.

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Teeny Tiny Cat

Basically it just feels like they favour donators over premium at this point.

 

Given that premium goes to the site owner, and donations go to the mods (who do a ridiculous amount of work for barely any pay, tbh) I'm not sure what would lead you to think that. Premium has numerous benefits, not just listings, and if you'd read the conditions to begin with you would have realised that the number of listings you were getting was a bug the whole time. The number you SHOULD have been getting was lower and very clear in the FAQ.

 

Funny how nobody reports the bug while they're enjoying the benefits of it, but they're quick to complain when it's fixed.

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polar

WTF. I also have like half less clasifieds slots than before, which is unfair. Its like forcing users to pay more for slots. And all is made without any information for users...

 

Just to be clear, the rules / faqs haven't changed at all. When you donated, you should have known exactly what you were getting, as that is listed very clearly. The fact that you were granted 2x more than was listed is a bug. But I guess no user reported that bug for two years :P.

 

1. Donators get everything yet people who spend ACTUAL money don't get free listings

2. Now we got our listings CUT down.

3. if you are premium for 2+ years and then cancel ALL your perks go away it don't show you contributed shit to the website.

 

I think you're being a little dramatic here.

 

1. Implying that donators donating two keys ($4.00) is not the same as premium users giving $4.00 via paypal is uncalled for. Selling two keys on marketplace is so ridiculously easy - keys basically = cash now.

 

2. Yes, the listings were cut. See my comment above. This was a bug. No one reported it for 2 years.

 

3. "ALL your perks go away" - what do you mean? All premium perks are the same as they have always been. Nothing has changed at all. The bug giving you 4x bonus instead of 2x as shown on the faq / premium pages was just that - a bug. When you signed up for premium, you could have easily verified that.

 

Saying premium is inferior to donations is comparing apples to oranges. Premium has always been designed as a service for the premium search service we have. But in addition to that, the 2x bonus premium users have that donators don't is huge. A 5 dollar donation gives 25 listings. Premium doubles the cap (70 bonus listings + 15 more if you are part of the steam group). That's a huge advantage. And that advantage stacks with the other things you can do for extra listings.

 

EDIT: And just to be clear, we're not trying to nickle and dime people here. Cares isn't on a hunt to find ways to jip people. He's trying to optimize the site - find ways to make things run faster, reduce load on the database. This was one of the things he identified - every single user was getting 2x the number of listings they should have been getting. As you can imagine, that's quite a bit of burden on the site.

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Jessica

Given that premium goes to the site owner, and donations go to the mods (who do a ridiculous amount of work for barely any pay, tbh) I'm not sure what would lead you to think that. Premium has numerous benefits, not just listings, and if you'd read the conditions to begin with you would have realised that the number of listings you were getting was a bug the whole time. The number you SHOULD have been getting was lower and very clear in the FAQ.

 

Funny how nobody reports the bug while they're enjoying the benefits of it, but they're quick to complain when it's fixed.

I didn't know it was a bug, I actually began using this website after this apparently bug happened - check yourself on my account creation for the site.

 

and good for you, I am admin of a really busy trade server and I never once cared about getting paid or anything, actually I'm there all day every day most days. I don't complain.

I also used to work for an online game company from the ages of 16-24 and have you know I actually didn't get paid at all until I was 18 and when I did I was getting under £4 an hour until I hit 21. I technically started working for them as a trial moderator when I was a kid and when I hit 16 the head moderator hired me as an actual admin and she'd pay me with ingame currency as I was too young to officially have a job at the company.

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Teeny Tiny Cat

I didn't know it was a bug, I actually began using this website after this apparently bug happened - check yourself on my account creation for the site.

 

and good for you, I am admin of a really busy trade server and I never once cared about getting paid or anything, actually I'm there all day every day most days. I don't complain.

I also used to work for an online game company from the ages of 16-24 and have you know I actually didn't get paid at all until I was 18 and when I did I was getting under £4 an hour until I hit 21. I technically started working for them as a trial moderator when I was a kid and when I hit 16 the head moderator hired me as an actual admin and she'd pay me with ingame currency as I was too young to officially have a job at the company.

 

The FAQ listed the correct figures at the date you joined, so once again... you could have easily checked and you would have seen you were getting more than you were entitled to.

 

None of this is relevant. The point of noting where donations go was to point out to you the the site owners and developers have no incentive to favour donors over premium users, given that donations don't go to them. We don't get a lot from donations and none of us do it for the pay anyway. We volunteer our time to help the community.

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Julia

2. Yes, the listings were cut. See my comment above. This was a bug. No one reported it for 2 years.

It wasn't a bug. It was added intentionally, though it wasn't added to the FAQ.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats#announcements/detail/975396203460887584

 

"The classifieds listing cap has been universally doubled."

 

I don't mind the update, though.

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Jessica

The FAQ listed the correct figures at the date you joined, so once again... you could have easily checked and you would have seen you were getting more than you were entitled to.

 

None of this is relevant. The point of noting where donations go was to point out to you the the site owners and developers have no incentive to favour donors over premium users, given that donations don't go to them. We don't get a lot from donations and none of us do it for the pay anyway. We volunteer our time to help the community.

Polar just said its 2 years. I began using this site for premium on August 2015. I did not abuse a bug in any way my listings have always been at 200 ever since I bought premium.

 

Also my listings are at 140 not 200 I would like to show you a reply and also a screenshot of my listings

 

NftVRWd.png

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Teeny Tiny Cat

Can you just go read the FAQ? :P You can literally still have 200 listings and I already explained how elsewhere. You are complaining about nothing.

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Jessica

So nobody gonna even respond to Julia's comment that just proved this whole bug thing as wrong?

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Teeny Tiny Cat

Fiskie made a change and didn't alter the FAQ to reflect it, so as far as our responses to you go there is no difference. The publicly available information to you was the same.

Cares has changed the system and the FAQ is now accurate. If you want to understand how to get more listings, read it. You can still get 200 with basic premium and no additional costs.

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Sniper Slicer

Hi xosmin, thanks for making this topic!

 

Here's my 2¢ ...

 

It seems like this correction will entice users to spam more bots to keep the same number of listings. So the extra cost goes to the bot providers instead of bp.tf when everything would be completely dead in the water without bp.tf. I would feel better about it if there were some "premium bot" subscription (for $9.99/mo?) that still had the 4x limit so the extra cost would benefit bp.tf directly. It makes even more sense now that I read it back to myself because only a bot can easily create/manage that many listings.

 

I'm going to look around to see if there is a way to donate on behalf of a bot.tf bot but again I would feel better about it if it were a re-occurring sub to bp.tf. 

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Woifi The Viking

I wanna mention that the listingnumber will get a rework now. By the looks of it donators will be awarded more. Some people who donated a good amount will have more listings than before this change. Other changes have been made as well, so in the end its not just removing 2x listing from every user. You should be able to calculate how many listings you get now with all the numbers that are listed on the FAQ page: http://backpack.tf/help/faq

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Pyotoru

It wasn't a bug. It was added intentionally, though it wasn't added to the FAQ.

 

https://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats#announcements/detail/975396203460887584

 

"The classifieds listing cap has been universally doubled."

 

I don't mind the update, though.

That moment when new feature was added and nobody changed FaQ and later feature was removed "because it was a bug" which wasnt as Julia shown.

That feeling... Feels like what Valve did with Righteuos Bison penetrating shots.

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cares

That moment when new feature was added and nobody changed FaQ and later feature was removed "because it was a bug" which wasnt as Julia shown.

That feeling... Feels like what Valve did with Righteuos Bison penetrating shots.

 

You could also see it as a WIP solution that stayed for quite some time. Now we have a better, more fair system in place.

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Pyotoru

You could also see it as a WIP solution that stayed for quite some time. Now we have a better, more fair system in place.

Nah, i see it as taking away something that was given, not so cool. Also fact that admins were lying in their posts that "it was 2 year old bugs" also feels bad - you, polar and Teeny Tiny Cat, all 3 lied in this topic.

 

Edit. takinng back my words about you lying, didnt see any word about "bug" in any of your post, only info about removing 2x multiplier that wasn't mentioned anywhere in FaQ...

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cares

Nah, i see it as taking away something that was given, not so cool. Also fact that admins were lying in their posts that "it was 2 year old bugs" also feels bad - you, polar and Teeny Tiny Cat, all 3 lied in this topic.

 

Edit. takinng back my words about you lying, didnt see any word about "bug" in any of your post, only info about removing 2x multiplier that wasn't mentioned anywhere in FaQ...

 

Actually we're giving more listings for donating now.

 

Yeah, you have less free ("starter") listings, but you were never entitled to any.

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Teeny Tiny Cat

Nah, i see it as taking away something that was given, not so cool. Also fact that admins were lying in their posts that "it was 2 year old bugs" also feels bad - you, polar and Teeny Tiny Cat, all 3 lied in this topic.

 

We did not and would not lie, we passed on the information we were given from devs. That is what we always do. I was told it was a bug, so that is what I told users.

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neemo

I wanna mention that the listingnumber will get a rework now. By the looks of it donators will be awarded more. Some people who donated a good amount will have more listings than before this change. Other changes have been made as well, so in the end its not just removing 2x listing from every user. You should be able to calculate how many listings you get now with all the numbers that are listed on the FAQ page: http://backpack.tf/help/faq

Holy crap, yeah this really benefits donators+premium.

I had around 640 but now I have 894.

One of my bots had around 640 -> 868

and my other bot had like 780 -> 1128

I was planning on donating today because I needed more listings but I guess I have enough for now lol

 

Honestly, I thought it was weird I was getting 4 listings per $ donated but I just assumed it was intended. Definitely sucks for those who were using 400 listings. You'd need to donate $20 (~10 keys) to get back the same amount.

 

Base = 200 for premium (previously 400)

Now = 200 + 10x | Previously = 400 + 4x (where x = $1 donated)

200 + 10x = 400 + 4x

6x = 200

x = 33.33, any amount donated over this would give you more now - assuming no extras

 

also lmao - http://backpack.tf/u/76561198011321852- top donator would have over 11k listings

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Jessica

Holy crap, yeah this really benefits donators+premium.

I had around 640 but now I have 894.

One of my bots had around 640 -> 868

and my other bot had like 780 -> 1128

I was planning on donating today because I needed more listings but I guess I have enough for now lol

 

Honestly, I thought it was weird I was getting 4 listings per $ donated but I just assumed it was intended. Definitely sucks for those who were using 400 listings. You'd need to donate $20 (~10 keys) to get back the same amount.

 

Base = 200 for premium (previously 400)

Now = 200 + 10x | Previously = 400 + 4x (where x = $1 donated)

200 + 10x = 400 + 4x

6x = 200

x = 33.33, any amount donated over this would give you more now - assuming no extras

 

also lmao - http://backpack.tf/u/76561198011321852- top donator would have over 11k listings

I always had a total of 200 listings with premium never anymore than 200.

 

I guess people who had x4 had an account way before I did on this website.

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Axle Change

Not gonna lie, seems pretty underhanded. The fact that no announcement was made anywhere is really off putting, I legitimately assumed it was a bug at first. Calling it more or less is kind of a load of crap IMO. It isn't even "Against the rules" for the listing bonuses, etc. to be outright removed, but that doesn't mean it is right. I'm all for site improvements, but halving premium listings without any warning, and removing a feature that was not actually a bug, without even notifying anyone is just a dick move.

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Teeny Tiny Cat

It was halved without warning because the dev thought it was a site bug. He has since rectified it with some changes that address the original issue in a better way.

 

People make mistakes occasionally, there's nothing underhanded about that.

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Axle Change

It was halved without warning because the dev thought it was a site bug. He has since rectified it with some changes that address the original issue in a better way.

 

People make mistakes occasionally, there's nothing underhanded about that.

Simply changing listings isn't the only issue here.

My main gripe is that no public announcement anywhere was made, and that the entirety of the issue was quite misleading to users. Is it actually against any laid out rules to change the listing caps? No. But is it underhanded to make changes privately? I would say yes. In purchasing premium, generally people expected that they could get 400 listings. Whether or not that belief was misplaced is another question, but I personally think that doesn't even matter as no clear effort was made to clarify the situation.

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