VVD wins Dutch elections

[Erik]

This morning I woke up to the great news that the VVD won the dutch elections, for the third time in a row. 

 

Basic dutch government information

The parliament has 150 seats. There are about 30 parties, and you need 76 seats to form a government. Sometimes parties get less than 76 seats, so they need to form a coalition. The VVD has won the elections with 33 seats. The anti-muslim party PVV has 20, however, nobody wants to form a coalition with them. So even though they are the second biggest party, it's high likely that they won't make it into the government.

 

Results of our election today: 

 

 

 

The VVD is a centre-right party. A distant government, low taxes, low benefits, healthcare in private sector, relatively strict immigration, anti-populism, pro-EU.

 

The Dutch are somewhat divided at the moment. There's a lot of failed integration due to mass immigration by people from other countries. Another party called the PVV, led by Geert Wilders, wanted to ban mosques, Koran and stop muslim immigration. As you'd expect, it's mostly yelling and accomplishing nothing. Therefore I am glad that the VVD won, as it's a rightwing party but not an extreme party.

 

The main reasons that I voted for the VVD is because I am a rightwing supporter myself. Although the Dutch rightwing is probably somewhat centre in the USA. The VVD got us out of financial issues during 2010-2016, lowered our national debt, improved our police forces, got more people employed and much more.

 

Another notable thing is that the left parties got completely crushed. The PvdA went from 38 to 9 seats. The top parties at the moment are mostly the VVD, PVV, CDA en D66. CDA is a Christian party and the D66 is also a centre party.

 

More info:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/16/europe/netherlands-dutch-results/index.html
Feel free to read this.

 

What do you think about the dutch elections? Did far right populism take a hit here? Will this also influence the upcoming French and German elections with Le Pen?

[puddingkip]

VVD is hardly a centre right party, they're full on right wing. And I truly feel bad for the PVDA, that's a serious fucking blow to them. But it's on them for promising the world leftist ideals and then ruling in a right wing government. Really surprised with how well DENK did as well but overall I'm quite happy with these results. This will be a VVD-CDA-D66-CU government I think, and it looks almost certain that D66 will be part of the new government which is nice because it makes me feel like my vote mattered

[Erik]

VVD is hardly a centre right party, they're full on right wing. And I truly feel bad for the PVDA, that's a serious fucking blow to them. But it's on them for promising the world leftist ideals and then ruling in a right wing government. Really surprised with how well DENK did as well but overall I'm quite happy with these results. This will be a VVD-CDA-D66-CU government I think, and it looks almost certain that D66 will be part of the new government which is nice because it makes me feel like my vote mattered

The VVD describes themselves as centre-right wing though. But yeah, the PvdA got absolutely slaughtered in the elections lol. 

 

I think that the D66 will the in the government as well, given that they're #3 biggest party with 19 seats. VVD + CDA + D66 + whatever party that has 5 seats or more

[Apeiron]

incoming edit after watched snowden

[Zeus_Junior]

Was waiting for you to make a topic on this :^)

 

I'm just happy the PVV didn't get the most votes. Feel bad for the PvdA and Wilders only showed up at the last 2 days of the election because thats when the most people watch, smart move Wilders.... smart move....

And then there's that thing with turkey... meh

 

Not entirely happy with the outcome of it all

[Erik]

Was waiting for you to make a topic on this :^)

 

I'm just happy the PVV didn't get the most votes. Feel bad for the PvdA and Wilders only showed up at the last 2 days of the election because thats when the most people watch, smart move Wilders.... smart move....

And then there's that thing with turkey... meh

 

Not entirely happy with the outcome of it all

Well let's be honest, the VVD got kinda lucky with the whole Turkey situation. Many people who were thinking between the VVD and PVV definitely voted on the VVD because of how Rutte handled the situation. Also, PvdA betrayed their own beliefs and voters, I don't really feel bad for them. 

 

Wilders indeed only showed up a short time before the elections, since he mostly twitters from his couch judging about how other people handle stuff. Although he did gain 5 seats, they'll be worthless if he doesn't get into the government.

[Foamy the Fearsome]

I'm not overly surprised by the results. Politics is not my strong suit, nor something I am particularly interested (those two are probably related to one another), so my opinion on stuff may be off and my logic is usually flawed in some way.

I do not follow all the debates and am not fully aware of all stances of all parties, which is why I did not and generally do not vote. People often call me "shallow", "careless" or right down "stupid" for not doing so. They tell me its blank voters or non-voters like me are the reason the country "is turning to shit", and then try to convince me to vote anyway (more often than not trying to convince me to vote as per their beliefs). I do not spend enough time researching or following what everyone is doing to have a fair understanding of what all parties want exactly; I only hear their "main goals and promises", which usually only consist of general ideas or large changes that are not realistic, and I feel like it'd be silly for me to vote. I'm glad other people do feel comfortable with that, but I don't. Aside from that, there is not a single party with which I agree on all matters. "Picking the one that fits me best" sounds a lot like "pick the least evil" to me, and still means I'd be voting for someone that wants to change things I do not wish to be changed. I understand the flaw in my rationale, but it is one of the reasons why I am uncomfortable voting in such a situation.

People also tell me to "just vote something so the PVV wont win". Voting as a whole isn't really my thing already, let alone strategically voting. Plus, that assumes that I am completely anti-PVV, which I am not (bring in the hatred). They're being depicted here as the "Anti-muslim party", which is understandable based on the way their leader presents himself commonly, but it is definitely no accurate description of what they actually "stand for". I actually agree with a lot of their stances, but I would never vote for them because of their poorly formatted and unrealistic solutions to their problems and the way they depict specific cases with disrespect. Wilders is just a clever man that knows how to politics; he knows when to appear and how to use the news in his advantage to suade people that there is a problem that needs to be solved. Many people here vote for him simply because he is well-known (despite rarely showing up at debates or interviews). I do not think he would be a capable leader; I think he is only capable of convincingly displaying his displeasure, voicing opinions that many people share but are afraid to voice, and pointing out things that can improve, without providing actual solutions. Some people fear he will take over, but that will not happen because of how the system works. He will not get the majority of votes by himself because there are way too many competitors, and even if he does, he doesn't have viable solutions in the form of new laws he would successfully be able to implement; there are simply too many political organs and failsafes to prevent a single person from ruling.

The way I see it, the Dutch government is excessively scattered; despite many parties claiming they would not mind coexisting in a coalition, many prefer not to join forces with the other parties. People see this as a bad thing, I really don't. As there are no excessively great, popular or capable parties, it means that from the larger 6 or 7 parties, there won't be a "solid" winner (i.e vvd is considered the winner here, but that does not mean that they get to rule as they please per say). To get a majority, they need to work together, and that requires concessions, generally resulting in the most extreme ideas of all individual parties to be cut off, providing a kind of conservative middle-ground, which is something I am completely okay with.

What I do not understand is why people are consistently so negative about how things are at the moment. People keep telling me change is needed and that with "this crappy government" we won't get anywhere, but are things really that bad? The Dutch are among the happiest people in the world; overall we are healthy, wealthy and reasonably educated. Our Lorenz-curve is moderately leveled, we have a relatively low rate of unemployment compared to the rest of the world, as well as compared to the rest of Europe, and our air is relatively clean. I do not see why radical changes are needed.

Therefore I think the system as it currently is works just fine, regardless of my vote, as it basicly consists of mainy failsafes that prevent the country from being led by a single, onesided leader, resulting in very few radical changes that - in my eyes - are not necessary.

 

[Erik]

 

People also tell me to "just vote something so the PVV wont win". Voting as a whole isn't really my thing already, let alone strategically voting. Plus, that assumes that I am completely anti-PVV, which I am not (bring in the hatred). They're being depicted here as the "Anti-muslim party", which is understandable based on the way their leader presents himself commonly, but it is definitely no accurate description of what they actually "stand for". I actually agree with a lot of their stances, but I would never vote for them because of their poorly formatted and unrealistic solutions to their problems and the way they depict specific cases with disrespect. Wilders is just a clever man that knows how to politics; he knows when to appear and how to use the news in his advantage to suade people that there is a problem that needs to be solved. Many people here vote for him simply because he is well-known (despite rarely showing up at debates or interviews). I do not think he would be a capable leader; I think he is only capable of convincingly displaying his displeasure, voicing opinions that many people share but are afraid to voice, and pointing out things that can improve, without providing actual solutions. Some people fear he will take over, but that will not happen because of how the system works. He will not get the majority of votes by himself because there are way too many competitors, and even if he does, he doesn't have viable solutions in the form of new laws he would successfully be able to implement; there are simply too many political organs and failsafes to prevent a single person from ruling.

 

What I do not understand is why people are consistently so negative about how things are at the moment. People keep telling me change is needed and that with "this crappy government" we won't get anywhere, but are things really that bad? The Dutch are among the happiest people in the world; overall we are healthy, wealthy and reasonably educated. Our Lorenz-curve is moderately leveled, we have a relatively low rate of unemployment compared to the rest of the world, as well as compared to the rest of Europe, and our air is relatively clean. I do not see why radical changes are needed.

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more with those statements. When the financial situation got worse in 2010, people blamed the VVD, but that entire situation started in America, with the Wall Street banks. It wasn't really the VVD's fault. After 8 years of the VVD we actually got out of the crisis very well. And like you said, we've got a good healthcare system, wealthy and a good education system. People complain way to much about everything and just need someone as their punchbag, and that punchbag happens to be the VVD. Mainly because the PVV blames them for everything and their supporters blindly follow/support everything the PVV says. 

 

The PVV has only 1 paper on which they explain what they stand for, however, they provide zero solutions so I don't really see any future in them leading our country. Meanwhile other parties got entire books with over 100 pages. And then of course is the 'muslim-issue', which is mainly based on aggressive youngsters and refugees. PVV supporters don't seem to understand that the leading Dutch government doesn't even decide that. It's actually the EU parliament. Let's say the PVV got 80 seats (extremely unrealistic) and they'd be the government on their own, and they say 'The Netherlands will no longer provide space for refugees' and then the EU Parliament overturns that decision and decides that 40,000 more refugees can be held here. Then all the people who voted on the PVV (because thats mainly why they vote PVV) are screwed because then the only reason they voted on the PVV is in the water.

 

While the PVV also has valid points, they don't explain them anywhere. Wilders doesn't appear in TV shows. Wilders doesn't appear in TV debates. He doesn't appear in interviews. He only jumps in when something happened that is slightly odd. For example, you never hear from Wilders but as soon as a terror attack happens anywhere, his twitter explodes (no pun intended) and he and his followers go wild on Social Media.

 

So yeah, that's mainly why I wouldn't vote for PVV. It's just a party for the people who disagree with the current government's views and feel the need to give them the finger. 

 

 

Also, so far it's only dutch people commenting. I was wondering how other people, who aren't dutch, look at this election and maybe even who they'd vote for. Since I've seen articles about this on BBC and CNN frontpages a few times now

[Zeus_Junior]

-

Wilders indeed only showed up a short time before the elections, since he mostly twitters from his couch judging about how other people handle stuff. Although he did gain 5 seats, they'll be worthless if he doesn't get into the government.

Huh, reminds me of some orange guy?

[Erik]

Huh, reminds me of some orange guy?

That's 2 separate situations though, let's not discuss Trump here

[Professional Map Painter]

Meme magic didn't work this time.