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We need change to the way items are being priced


Its me.

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So i think many of us feel this way, but if you don't feel free to comment.


 


Don't you think that the rule that unusual prices on bp.tf are "PURE" prices is pretty unreasonable and stupid, and that suggestion buyouts are always capped at the PURE price and not the UNUSUAL price paid? 


 


Firstly, its quite stupid that if you are going to state that unusual prices on bp.tf are "PURE" prices, shouldn't a sale of an unusual in pure, or in unusuals be the same? For example, if i sell a unusual hat for 200 keys, someone comes up to me and offers another 200 key unusual, this would be considered that the sale was 200 keys pure since unusual prices are taken as pure prices. This would be equivalent  to selling my unusual for 200 pure keys.


 


However, this is not the case when some idiot expects overpay for their unusuals (sorry 99% of idiots on tf2, myself included). When they state that they have a buyout of 200 pure or 220 in unusuals, and someone pays 220 in unusuals, the buyout is capped at 200 pure. What kind of contradictory bullshit is that? If you guys want to state that UNUSUALS are priced pure on bp.tf then there should not be a difference in whether the buyout is set at 200 pure or 220 in unusuals. If it is paid in unusuals, (which happens 99% of the time) then the buyout should be capped at 220 keys because as stated by you guys in your rules, unusuals are listed as pure prices. 


 


In addition, we all knows that unusuals never or hardly go for the stated price on bp.tf in PURE. Only a select few unusuals can constantly sell for their bp.tf in pure value and we all know that is true. So i really feel the rule that prices on bp.tf are pure prices is severely flawed, especially if you do not take unusual buyouts as a pure price either.


 


That being said we need some change when it comes to pricing unusuals, either scrap the idea that unusuals on bp.tf are listed in pure prices (99% of them will never sell for their price in pure) or change the way buyouts cap the price, if it sells in unusuals, cap it at unusual buyout price, if it sells in pure, cap it at the pure price. Since Unusual buyout price = pure buyout price as Unusual price on bp.tf = pure price.


 


Simple.


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the not so secret secret is that

 

successful people don't blindly trust the piss poor pricing listed here.

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You're kind of rambling a bit here, but from what I can tell your main point is that if a hat is worth 100 keys, it should count the same as 100 pure in a sale. The hat and the pile of keys are each worth 100, so they should be treated the same, right?

 

It's not that simple, though. Ignoring bad/inflated prices (that's a completely different topic), there's a very good reason that a random hat worth x amount of keys (say 100) is less desirable than 100 keys. The reason is that keys are a currency, which means that you can use them to buy essentially anything in the TF2 economy, and essentially everyone will accept them. They also have a well-known value that pretty much everyone agrees on. It's also much easier to convert keys to real-world money, or across games.

 

Unusuals are also more subjective in their value--most people don't accept them at full key value because of the above reasons and they aren't interested in that specific hat, (and also because there's always some uncertainty in their values) but a small segment of the population will pay full key value for them, because they want that specific hat.

 

Furthermore, keys have the advantage of being small in value so you can use just the amount you want to; an unusual, on the other hand, is one big chunk of value that you can't divide into smaller chunks. An unusual is a bit of a headache to most, whereas keys are good for everyone. So when someone accepts 220 in unusuals for a hat, they probably value that 220 about the same as they'd value 200 keys, give or take a bit.

 

That's why overpay makes sense.

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Double post

 

So basically you are saying bp.tf should put a label on unusuals and say "PURE PRICE" ?

 

I don't think any change is needed.

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No they shouldn't , but they should not say that bp.tf prices are pure prices because they are definitely, not pure prices. It's such a bad misrepresentation because 99% of unusuals will not sell for pure at bp.tf prices. We all know that is true.

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It's such a bad misrepresentation because 99% of unusuals will not sell for pure at bp.tf prices. We all know that is true.

We don't, actually. Show us some proof.

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We don't, actually. Show us some proof.

 

 

take a minute and look through unusual price suggestions

 

pure sales are not very common

 

99% might be overstating, but its definitely a hefty majority of sales that are not all pure (also feels like more than 50% of sales include no pure at all)

 

 

so whats wrong with that?

 

NOTHING

 

whats wrong with saying prices are pure equivalences?

 

NOTHING

 

whats wrong with blindly trusting a 3rd party site run and moderated by folks actively engaged in profiteering from tf2?

 

EVERYTHING

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there was overpay rule when you had to calculate *0.9 when it sold in items, but it got removed for reason i dont know 

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words

I feel like you and I don't disagree on anything here, I just wanted to give OP a hard time because he's rambling and not making a lot of sense.

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It's not finite that you can sell an unusual for X amount of keys and then buy a hat for that X amount. That's why sellers expect overpay, so in the event that it doesn't break even if you 1:1 they still break even regardless.

 

Also they hardly go for their pure price because people are in the business for profit, that's where the suggestions come in, the keep the prices regulated so a hat can't be bought for 70 keys here but then 120 there.

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Also they hardly go for their pure price because people are in the business for profit, that's where the suggestions come in, the keep the prices regulated so a hat can't be bought for 70 keys here but then 120 there.

Having those prices cuts down on the amount of profit available, for exactly the reason you stated. The prices (even if they're awful) mostly help the nubs who can't figure out a hat's value themselves.

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Having those prices cuts down on the amount of profit available, for exactly the reason you stated. The prices (even if they're awful) mostly help the nubs who can't figure out a hat's value themselves.

I probably do not make sense to you because you do not make price suggestions, or had ur hat undervalued because of the stupid rules. If you do not have anything constructive to say, don't say it.

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I probably do not make sense to you because you do not make price suggestions, or had ur hat undervalued because of the stupid rules. If you do not have anything constructive to say, don't say it.

Actually, I provided a pretty thorough answer as to why pure was/is/should not be valued not the same as unusuals, which is constructive. The fact that you ignored it proves it's YOU who's not interested in being constructive. :P

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Actually, I provided a pretty thorough answer as to why pure was/is/should not be valued not the same as unusuals, which is constructive. The fact that you ignored it proves it's YOU who's not interested in being constructive. :P

here's the rundown.

 

A. bought a hat for ~230 keys in unusuals and the pure buyout on said had was 170, while the unusual buyout was 200.

Since all suggestions use pure buyouts to cap and not unusual buyouts, he made this post, and I do agree with him.

I think if a hat has a pure buyout of 170 and an unusual buyout of 200, and the hat sells for 220 in hats, it should be priced at 200 rather than 170.

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here's the rundown.

 

A. bought a hat for ~230 keys in unusuals and the pure buyout on said had was 170, while the unusual buyout was 200.

Since all suggestions use pure buyouts to cap and not unusual buyouts, he made this post, and I do agree with him.

I think if a hat has a pure buyout of 170 and an unusual buyout of 200, and the hat sells for 220 in hats, it should be priced at 200 rather than 170.

What YOU are saying is completely reasonable. However, that's different than what OP is saying--OP is saying that, in your example, the price should be 220. ("When they state that they have a buyout of 200 pure or 220 in unusuals, and someone pays 220 in unusuals, the buyout is capped at 200 pure. What kind of contradictory bullshit is that?")

 

He's saying that an unusual sale at 220 should be treated the same as a pure sale at 220, because a hat priced at 220 is the same as 220 keys, which is wrong.

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He's saying that an unusual sale at 220 should be treated the same as a pure sale at 220, because a hat priced at 220 is the same as 220 keys, which is wrong.

basically his problem is "why can't they be equal since they are to me." Which is downright f2p logic if you ask me.
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basically his problem is "why can't they be equal since they are to me." Which is downright f2p logic if you ask me.

 

 

I do not agree that they are equal. I am only saying that they are equal because of what bp.tf states. Unusual prices are prices in pure, ie they should be equal in terms of their prices and pure prices. That is my only issue with the statement. I get the whole overpay thing and all but wouldnt it be easier if we took prices of unusuals in "unusual price" rather than in "pure" price, since most people are going to ask for less if they pay in pure and more if they pay in unusuals? 

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You're kind of rambling a bit here, but from what I can tell your main point is that if a hat is worth 100 keys, it should count the same as 100 pure in a sale. The hat and the pile of keys are each worth 100, so they should be treated the same, right?

 

It's not that simple, though. Ignoring bad/inflated prices (that's a completely different topic), there's a very good reason that a random hat worth x amount of keys (say 100) is less desirable than 100 keys. The reason is that keys are a currency, which means that you can use them to buy essentially anything in the TF2 economy, and essentially everyone will accept them. They also have a well-known value that pretty much everyone agrees on. It's also much easier to convert keys to real-world money, or across games.

 

Unusuals are also more subjective in their value--most people don't accept them at full key value because of the above reasons and they aren't interested in that specific hat, (and also because there's always some uncertainty in their values) but a small segment of the population will pay full key value for them, because they want that specific hat.

 

Furthermore, keys have the advantage of being small in value so you can use just the amount you want to; an unusual, on the other hand, is one big chunk of value that you can't divide into smaller chunks. An unusual is a bit of a headache to most, whereas keys are good for everyone. So when someone accepts 220 in unusuals for a hat, they probably value that 220 about the same as they'd value 200 keys, give or take a bit.

 

That's why overpay makes sense.

 

 

I totally agree with what you are saying here. which is why a hat that is priced at 100 keys on bp.tf should not be implied as it being worth 100 keys pure, which is what bp.tf is always saying. Since they say, prices stated on bp.tf are pure prices. They should not be pure prices because the hat is worth less in pure since most people will pay a discount.

 

And overpay would make sense if the price of the hat is indeed 100 pure, and listed on bp.tf as 100 pure. If someone is only willing to pay 80 pure for the hat, whilst its listed for 100 pure on bp.tf and the seller is asking for 120 in overpay, thats essentially 40 keys overpay for a hat worth 80 pure, but only looks like 20 keys overpay for a hat thats worth "100" in bp.tf sense.

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I totally agree with what you are saying here. which is why a hat that is priced at 100 keys on bp.tf should not be implied as it being worth 100 keys pure, which is what bp.tf is always saying. Since they say, prices stated on bp.tf are pure prices. They should not be pure prices because the hat is worth less in pure since most people will pay a discount.

 

And overpay would make sense if the price of the hat is indeed 100 pure, and listed on bp.tf as 100 pure. If someone is only willing to pay 80 pure for the hat, whilst its listed for 100 pure on bp.tf and the seller is asking for 120 in overpay, thats essentially 40 keys overpay for a hat worth 80 pure, but only looks like 20 keys overpay for a hat thats worth "100" in bp.tf sense.

I see what you're saying. Sometimes the prices are outdated, or flat-out wrong. If people aren't willing to pay the bp.tf prices in pure, then the prices are incorrect. The intent is that the prices, which are in pure, reflect what people are willing to pay in pure. If hats are consistently selling for less than their "price", then their "price" needs to be lowered....but is it really that simple?

 

So in your example of the 100-key hat that no one will pay above 80 pure for, that looks like a classic example of an overpriced hat that should be lowered to 80 pure. On the other hand, if people are actually willing to pay unusuals that are worth 120 for it, then it probably IS worth ~100. And if people will pay 120 in unusuals but no more than 80 pure, then they're probably not being honest about the value of their unusuals.

 

There's also a downward spiral caused by quickbuyers, where they wait until someone is desperate enough to sell a hat for ~60% of its price, and then they turn around and sell it for ~90% of its price to people who think they're getting a good deal.

 

So here's a scenario that could explain why you might see a lot of pure sales well below the prices, and unusual sales more in line with the prices:

 

Person A has a 100-key hat but needs pure quick for his coke habit.

Person B offers him 60 because he knows A is desperate. B values the hat at 100 but he isn't willing to offer more, because he knows some other sucker will need rent money if A doesn't take it.

A hates the deal, but takes it out of necessity. B is laughing all the way to the bank.

B puts the hat up for sale 100.

C offers 110 in unusuals for the hat.

B accepts, as it's turning a hat he values at 100 into hat(s) valued at 110.

 

So what is the hat worth? Is 100 pure accurate?

 

Do we need to revise the overpay ratios? Do pure sales need to be ignored altogether? OH, god. The drunker I get, the more OP makes sense.

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I see what you're saying. Sometimes the prices are outdated, or flat-out wrong. If people aren't willing to pay the bp.tf prices in pure, then the prices are incorrect. The intent is that the prices, which are in pure, reflect what people are willing to pay in pure. If hats are consistently selling for less than their "price", then their "price" needs to be lowered....but is it really that simple?

 

So in your example of the 100-key hat that no one will pay above 80 pure for, that looks like a classic example of an overpriced hat that should be lowered to 80 pure. On the other hand, if people are actually willing to pay unusuals that are worth 120 for it, then it probably IS worth ~100. And if people will pay 120 in unusuals but no more than 80 pure, then they're probably not being honest about the value of their unusuals.

 

There's also a downward spiral caused by quickbuyers, where they wait until someone is desperate enough to sell a hat for ~60% of its price, and then they turn around and sell it for ~90% of its price to people who think they're getting a good deal.

 

So here's a scenario that could explain why you might see a lot of pure sales well below the prices, and unusual sales more in line with the prices:

 

Person A has a 100-key hat but needs pure quick for his coke habit.

Person B offers him 60 because he knows A is desperate. B values the hat at 100 but he isn't willing to offer more, because he knows some other sucker will need rent money if A doesn't take it.

A hates the deal, but takes it out of necessity. B is laughing all the way to the bank.

B puts the hat up for sale 100.

C offers 110 in unusuals for the hat.

B accepts, as it's turning a hat he values at 100 into hat(s) valued at 110.

 

So what is the hat worth? Is 100 pure accurate?

 

Do we need to revise the overpay ratios? Do pure sales need to be ignored altogether? OH, god. The drunker I get, the more OP makes sense.

 

 

I don't even know, its too complicated to even continue discussing it. Tbh its just how shit gets capped at B/os that really piss me off.

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I see what you're saying. Sometimes the prices are outdated, or flat-out wrong. If people aren't willing to pay the bp.tf prices in pure, then the prices are incorrect. The intent is that the prices, which are in pure, reflect what people are willing to pay in pure. If hats are consistently selling for less than their "price", then their "price" needs to be lowered....but is it really that simple?

 

So in your example of the 100-key hat that no one will pay above 80 pure for, that looks like a classic example of an overpriced hat that should be lowered to 80 pure. On the other hand, if people are actually willing to pay unusuals that are worth 120 for it, then it probably IS worth ~100. And if people will pay 120 in unusuals but no more than 80 pure, then they're probably not being honest about the value of their unusuals.

 

There's also a downward spiral caused by quickbuyers, where they wait until someone is desperate enough to sell a hat for ~60% of its price, and then they turn around and sell it for ~90% of its price to people who think they're getting a good deal.

 

So here's a scenario that could explain why you might see a lot of pure sales well below the prices, and unusual sales more in line with the prices:

 

Person A has a 100-key hat but needs pure quick for his coke habit.

Person B offers him 60 because he knows A is desperate. B values the hat at 100 but he isn't willing to offer more, because he knows some other sucker will need rent money if A doesn't take it.

A hates the deal, but takes it out of necessity. B is laughing all the way to the bank.

B puts the hat up for sale 100.

C offers 110 in unusuals for the hat.

B accepts, as it's turning a hat he values at 100 into hat(s) valued at 110.

 

So what is the hat worth? Is 100 pure accurate?

 

Do we need to revise the overpay ratios? Do pure sales need to be ignored altogether? OH, god. The drunker I get, the more OP makes sense.

 

I think the best option would be, if an item is bought in overpay, we dont cap the offer at the B/o but we do the x amount of keys x 0.9 or something which was done before.

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Tbh its just how shit gets capped at B/os that really piss me off.

 

Why? How often do you go to buy something and tell the clerk "You're only asking $50 for that? I'll give you $70 instead."?

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You kinda contradicted yourself, you said that most unusuals barely ever sell for their bp.tf price, which means that they are overpriced, if we were to change the B/O cap to not apply anymore, then the hats will become even more overpriced, and I honestly doubt that anyone would be interested in that.

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