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IS GOD REAL?!


ThisEngiThough

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  • 2 weeks later...

I dont think genesis is meant to be taken so literally. I think its a poetic sort of take on God's creation of the universe.

 

the issue is that the bible is open to interpretation, so no one really knows what the main points are.. obviously there are generally accepted theories/ideas, but at the end of the day each person has to decide for himself what is being said

 

this causes issues when politicians try and push/support laws based on the judgement of their religion; it is incredibly biased and therefor, should be illicit (based on the suggested separation of church and state in the Constitution for the United States of America)

 

however, that being said, when one is raised by religion, in a religious house, in a religious state, practicing their religion, the religion starts to be a factor that defines them as a person. It WILL influence their decisions, which results in a huge upset in the intended message of separation of church and state vs the real world, where politicians actively use their religious beliefs (and moral beliefs, perhaps founded by religious teachings) to try and pass laws

 

Sorry for going on into the Government side of this, but in my opinion no, the Christian God does not exist. 

I don't believe there is a "maker" of the universe; but I do believe that there are entities within our universe that one day we may call gods (Or if they were here today we would call them gods)

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HarryG's Ten Commandments

1. An omniscient being would not need it's followers to say aloud that they are sorry for their wrongdoing, it would already know if they were

2. An omnipotent being would not punish all of its creations with "Original Sin" if said being instilled the tendency to do wrong in these creations, as well as creating a serpent that would tempt them to do wrong. "Here's free will and eternal life. Oh, you did free will wrong, I'm taking eternal life away."

3. An omnipotent, all good and all-loving being, if it wanted to save its creations from this sin (pretending for a minute of course that it was not this beings fault anyway, which it very much is), would sacrifice itself out of love instead of creating a human Son and then forcing this Son to sacrifice itself. This is not all good, this is the being literally creating its own scapegoat (it's own son, no less) to avoid taking any responsibility or part in the matter.

4. This same all good and all loving being would not force one of its most loyal followers to wait until the brink of death to conceive, and then ask that same follower to murder this only child as a sacrifice to it.

5. An omniscient being would not have to ask Cain where Abel was.

6. An all loving and all good being would not create a flood to kill all humankind based on the broad and normative statement that all of humanity except for one family was evil. Broad and normative statements are used by people to cover a wide expanse of fields with one statement because we are NOT all knowing.

7. A being that is all good would not cause floods, disease, murder, the DEVIL, the serpent, plagues etc. Saying that these acts are justified does not make them good, a "good" person does not attack others for being bad; or for any reason but self defense. "God" was not acting in self defense in any of these incidents. This therefore effectively disproves that an omnipotent being could also be all good.

8. A finitely powerful being uses the word "good" as a normative statement to attempt to broadly capture positive qualities; an omniscient being would use its complete understanding of positive qualities to make every Pope of the Church as perfect as this being was, especially if these Popes have infallible knowledge on church matters, according to the church. However "God" has not created every leader of its Church as a perfect unfailing being as many previous Popes (Europe a few centuries ago is a great example) have been well known for secret murders and corruption, taking bribes to declare certain statements as "the word of God".

9. Following the same principle, this being would not make any of the priests that "convey the word of the Lord" so that they molest children and (again, medieval Europe on this one), taking bribes.

10. Finally and perhaps most importantly, an omnipotent being that claims to be all forgiving would not condemn all souls that do not confess every single one of their "mortal" sins aloud to a priest straight to hell for all eternity without exception.

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1. An omniscient being would not need it's followers to say aloud that they are sorry for their wrongdoing, it would already know if they were

I think you're confusing the rite itself with acknowledgement of mistake & regret.

(it's not that God doesn't know - it's a way for a sinner to acknowledgement his sin & wants to repend)

 

2. An omnipotent being would not punish all of its creations with "Original Sin" if said being instilled the tendency to do wrong in these creations, as well as creating a serpent that would tempt them to do wrong. "Here's free will and eternal life. Oh, you did free will wrong, I'm taking eternal life away."

3. An omnipotent, all good and all-loving being, if it wanted to save its creations from this sin (pretending for a minute of course that it was not this beings fault anyway, which it very much is), would sacrifice itself out of love instead of creating a human Son and then forcing this Son to sacrifice itself. This is not all good, this is the being literally creating its own scapegoat (it's own son, no less) to avoid taking any responsibility or part in the matter.

Some theodicies would argue that God wants the 'best' for us - which we would not be able to acchieve without free will.

This however, does not mean that bad decisions are good

... much like you can't claim "it's not murder because this is not a dictatorship"

 

6. An all loving and all good being would not create a flood to kill all humankind based on the broad and normative statement that all of humanity except for one family was evil. Broad and normative statements are used by people to cover a wide expanse of fields with one statement because we are NOT all knowing.

if my knowledge about chrisitanity doesn't fail me - it has to do with Lilith. Noah & his wife being the only 'pure' human (decendant of Adam & Eve), while others not.

Also, as, at that point in time, it's only 10th generation - I'm not sure if refering it to "all humankind", while correct, might not give an accurate depicition

 

7. A being that is all good would not cause floods, disease, murder, the DEVIL, the serpent, plagues etc. Saying that these acts are justified does not make them good, a "good" person does not attack others for being bad; or for any reason but self defense.

Do consider God is not "a person" (it's not equal vs equal, but superior vs inferior). so ...

Would you consider a human taking medication against a non-fatal disease (killing millions of bacteria) by definition evil (or whatever you consider not 'good')?

Or someone who's eating more meat then is biologically required (if any, for that matter?) ?

 

Saying "good" people only kill in self defense ... that's an EXTREME narrow box you put yourself in.

 

8. ... However "God" has not created every leader of its Church as a perfect unfailing being as many previous Popes ...

Err ... I'm not sure that there are any streams of christianity that consider any being other then Jesus Christ a "perfect unfailing being" (and even Jesus, there are some streams that differ in oppinion)

 

10. Finally and perhaps most importantly, an omnipotent being that claims to be all forgiving would not condemn all souls that do not confess every single one of their "mortal" sins aloud to a priest straight to hell for all eternity without exception.

I think you're confusing the rite itself with acknowledgement of mistake & regret.
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There's an equal amount of evidence for that pink unicorn that orbits pluto, and a God(s).

 

No evidence = no reason for me to believe it.

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I think you're confusing the rite itself with acknowledgement of mistake & regret.(it's not that God doesn't know - it's a way for a sinner to acknowledgement his sin & wants to repend)Some theodicies would argue that God wants the 'best' for us - which we would not be able to acchieve without free will.This however, does not mean that bad decisions are good... much like you can't claim "it's not murder because this is not a dictatorship"if my knowledge about chrisitanity doesn't fail me - it has to do with Lilith. Noah & his wife being the only 'pure' human (decendant of Adam & Eve), while others not.Also, as, at that point in time, it's only 10th generation - I'm not sure if refering it to "all humankind", while correct, might not give an accurate depicitionDo consider God is not "a person" (it's not equal vs equal, but superior vs inferior). so ...Would you consider a human taking medication against a non-fatal disease (killing millions of bacteria) by definition evil (or whatever you consider not 'good')?Or someone who's eating more meat then is biologically required (if any, for that matter?) ?Saying "good" people only kill in self defense ... that's an EXTREME narrow box you put yourself in.Err ... I'm not sure that there are any streams of christianity that consider any being other then Jesus Christ a "perfect unfailing being" (and even Jesus, there are some streams that differ in oppinion)I think you're confusing the rite itself with acknowledgement of mistake & regret.

Just perusing through some of your flawed logic here (not even counting that you ignored a few of my commandments completely, and that even one of my commandments would disprove the God Thesis):

By the Christian Bible, ALL humans are descended from Adam and Eve. They were the first humans; Herego we are all descended from them. That's where the original sin concept comes from. Catholics believe that Mary is a perfect sinless being and all Popes have infallible knowledge. Considering that you have this many glaring errors right there shows me you probably need a little more education on the topic; therefore I won't be discussing this here any further. I've made my point, and clearly I'm right. Goodbye.

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By the Christian Bible, ALL humans are descended from Adam and Eve. They were the first humans; Herego we are all descended from them.

1. However, since Noah was the only survivor of the great flood, we are also all decendant of him. And as Noah was decended of Adam & Eve, so we are all decendant of them.

 

Of those we know as descendents of Adam & Eve (Jabal,Jubal, Tubal-Cain, Naamah, etc on Cain's side; Methuselah & Lamech etc on Seth's side) non are noted to be killed by the flood. (of those noted, Methuselah died 7 days before the flood; Lamech 5 years)

 

2. Lilith, Adam's first wife, is not considered a "human" but a demon (though made from the same dirt stuff Adam was made off) and she had children with him as well

 

As far as I recall when God saw the earth was corrupted -- he saw that the only "pure" offspring as Noah.

 

Catholics believe that Mary is a perfect sinless being and all Popes have infallible knowledge.

1. And yet a 2 second google search learns you that Marie is considered "perfect" in the sense that she's sinless; not littlerly a perfect being.

 

2. Papal infallibility applies when he defines the "doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church" (to quote wikipeida)

 

a.k.a. When the Pope says "condoms are bad", then that is the stance of the Church in that matter.

That's not the same as having having knowledge - it's having authority.

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If I had a choice between rational thinking and doing good to the world or believing that allah split the moon in two or that the earth is flat, I'd have to go with the rational thinking one

 

(No)

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Try to think about the purpose of life

Then imagine why religions started appearing

 

As an atheist I sometimes feel existentially empty when I stare at the sky at night, and I'm just like "Yeah, alright, we're more evolved animals amongst others on a random planet somewhere in space. We live, then we die, it's over, voilà."

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Until we can find actual scientific evidence that God(s) or these so called "Higher Powers", There will never be any way for us as humans to actually know for sure.

But as humans, we tend to fill in many of the things we don't know. Religion is the byproduct of that trait we humans possess.

 

With that said, I think anyone should at least have the freedom to believe what they want to believe. You really shouldn't be forced into anything you want to believe in. Heck, I am an atheist but nearly everyone in the town I live in are christian. But I can't blame them, if they want to believe then I won't think of them less than me just because their beliefs are different from mine.

However, the moment someone tries to legitimately force their beliefs onto me, I will bring out my lines upon lines of reasonable arguments of why I just can't believe in anything other than nothing.

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I prefer to believe there is a force that we are unable to understand, and hoping I am right, than living in the certainty after death my existence, my will, my power of being able to think, will be erased forever.

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This forum is all liberal atheist gun hating PC pro choice leftists (or whatever the European equivalent of that is cuz a lot of people here are Europeans). <~~fact not flaming admins

 

So Uhhhh...gonna get lotsa no's (if I get banned for this statement consider it proof of my statement)

But uh yea gods real. Some people think so some people don't. Some people are lucky enough they were raised to believe in him, some get sudden realizations when they didn't believe, some experience or witness miracles to convince them. Some believe but then some lefty professor told gave them a superiority complex to believe that because they think they have science stuff on their side theyre smarter. (Happened to my gay uncle lol)

 

But yea gods helped me out a lot. I don't go to church often but when I do it's when I'm really down and it always 'cleanses' me spiritually and emotionally I guess (no priest Pedo jokes pls) sometimes when bad stuff happens to me I blame God but then I realized it's just part of our experience here.

 

*fun fact, the amazing atheist, a revered figure in the atheist community has a video of him pouring hot oil and melted hot butter on his **actual** micropenis, and another where he inserts a plantain into his rectum*

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This forum is all liberal atheist gun hating PC pro choice leftists (or whatever the European equivalent of that is cuz a lot of people here are Europeans). <~~fact not flaming admins

 

So Uhhhh...gonna get lotsa no's (if I get banned for this statement consider it proof of my statement)

But uh yea gods real. Some people think so some people don't. Some people are lucky enough they were raised to believe in him, some get sudden realizations when they didn't believe, some experience or witness miracles to convince them. Some believe but then some lefty professor told gave them a superiority complex to believe that because they think they have science stuff on their side theyre smarter. (Happened to my gay uncle lol)

 

But yea gods helped me out a lot. I don't go to church often but when I do it's when I'm really down and it always 'cleanses' me spiritually and emotionally I guess (no priest Pedo jokes pls) sometimes when bad stuff happens to me I blame God but then I realized it's just part of our experience here.

 

The thing is you can't expect to go into a discussion insult everyone, shit on people's upbringing, the people they respect and then expect people to be civil with you. If anything you wont be "get losta no" because you believe in God but because you think that it's okay to shit talk people and then try to take the moral ground by saying anyone that disagrees with you it's because they dont believe in God. You are free to believe in whatever you like as long as you dont cause any harm this forum.

 

The argument you presented is that you can say that "god's helped me alot" the argument is that it doesnt prove God is real you can certainly believe that whatever problem you had that God went out of his way to help you but you cannot assert that you are superior to others because you believe in God.

 

Life is full of challenges and whether or not one believes in God doesnt make an observable difference, if 2 people are starving the one who believes in God wont magically be less hungry than the other but if they both survive the one who believes in God may claim that God helped him survive whilst the atheist will just think that he survived there is no way to prove God doesnt exist nor is there a way to prove he doesnt. 

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Some believe but then some lefty professor told gave them a superiority complex to believe that because they think they have science stuff on their side theyre smarter.

Tip: when trying to paint a picture that others incorrectly believe they are smarter ... do it with correct grammar and spelling.
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Sometimes, I wish I believed in a god or higher power as it seems like a comforting thing in a way. Unfortunately, I've never been able to logically bring myself to believing in one.

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This forum is all liberal atheist gun hating PC pro choice leftists (or whatever the European equivalent of that is cuz a lot of people here are Europeans). <~~fact not flaming admins

 

So Uhhhh...gonna get lotsa no's (if I get banned for this statement consider it proof of my statement)

But uh yea gods real. Some people think so some people don't. Some people are lucky enough they were raised to believe in him, some get sudden realizations when they didn't believe, some experience or witness miracles to convince them. Some believe but then some lefty professor told gave them a superiority complex to believe that because they think they have science stuff on their side theyre smarter. (Happened to my gay uncle lol)

 

But yea gods helped me out a lot. I don't go to church often but when I do it's when I'm really down and it always 'cleanses' me spiritually and emotionally I guess (no priest Pedo jokes pls) sometimes when bad stuff happens to me I blame God but then I realized it's just part of our experience here.

 

*fun fact, the amazing atheist, a revered figure in the atheist community has a video of him pouring hot oil and melted hot butter on his **actual** micropenis, and another where he inserts a plantain into his rectum*

 

Fun Fact: there is a a rampant disease in the Catholic Church called child molestation by priests.  This of course says about as much about the existence (or non-existence) of god as does the fact that some youtuber shoves vegetables up his ass. 

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Honestly it's a tough one, but when you think about it there are more than 1 religion worshipping a different god...

 

that made me think these people we "worship" as gods were once just really amazing men/women and had an impact on our planet so huge that people believed they were some sort of god.

 

However, I am not sure what I believe. I'd like to think there is a god, but eh we'll find out when we die lol.

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