Hmm first ban from autpost

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Everyone deserves respect in my opinion. I respect those who insult me. And I don't insult back. But again, people are different.

eh, i've gotta disagree. 

 

Growing up i was always told to treat others the way i want to be treated; if someone can't be bothered to treat me with respect, then why should i be bothered to treat them with respect (other than to be the "better"-man)?

[Blue Screen of Death]

eh, i've gotta disagree. 

 

Growing up i was always told to treat others the way i want to be treated; if someone can't be bothered to treat me with respect, then why should i be bothered to treat them with respect (other than to be the "better"-man)?

 

The bold face is one of the reasons. The fact that someone doesn't treat me well is not enough for me to change my principles. Treating well/respecting an enemy/someone that treated you badly is one of the greatest challenges a human can face. And this is tied to forgiveness. But this is another discussion and belongs to another forum

 

EDIT: If I were to treat people like they treat me as a TF2OP Admin, I'd become and do exactly what people complain about: banning based on personal feelings, hand pick people to harass/ban just because, and use the ban hammer for no valid reason just to show power.

[✔ P I X E L A T E D ✔]

This is why making the calls is hard. What is a slight insult? Are there degrees of insults? How to establish them? This discussion is endless.

Either allow everything or block what one considers insulting. And there's no way to have a list of insults and their degrees compiled.

 

I see that consistence sometimes may be a problem, and believe me, we are trying our best to minimize it as much as possible. But as long as the human factor exists, there will never be perfection as the human itself is not perfect.

 

I'm not offended by it. But yes, I'm defensive because I see all these arguments and claims without no supporting evidence. And I'll tackle every single one of them. If I have a problem with someone or with a site, I contact them/their owners to get an explanation/solution. I really don't think it's necessary to make a big fuss and announce it to everyone - this always end up in a flame war/trash talk.

 

As for NSFW, I've seen reports from people saying they could see porn on their work computers. The fact that Sneeza makes the rules still remains.

 

I used bad words with people I know for a long time or am familiar with, because I know how they will take them. But we are talking about public places here, and similarly to real life, you need to have boundaries.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7dQh8u4Hc

[Pyrocide]

Everyone deserves respect in my opinion. I respect those who insult me. And I don't insult back. But again, people are different.

 

 

 

You should use your thicker skin next time then, and not insult people back. This would keep you away from bans and avoid the trash talk with no supporting evidence you originated.

 

 

 

I didn't "flip" anything, your entire post was directed at me. Why would the last quote not be?

 

 

I already explained what you refer as "banning practices and inconsistencies within the TF2OP site's moderation team", and many have already understood what I've been trying to tell you, I don't think I'm making it too hard to understand.

disagree, not everyone on this earth deserves respect. While MOST do, some just cannot be bothered with it and thus do not deserve it. 

 

My post was a response to you. That last sentence was not directed AT you. Awesome understood what I was saying but I honestly cannot tell at this point if you are deliberately trying to be thick or just take what I am saying as a legitimate direct attack at you. Seems like you want an attack here, but benefit of the doubt here. It is unfortunate that you seem to take what I say as an attack but TBH I have no reason nor have I been given any justification to do so. 

 

Where is the trash talk claim coming from? I asked a simple question which again was answered PAGES back. You continually bring up trash talking which I have explained was either about past mods or a current issue that I see. 

 

I understand that you think there are levels of insults while I believe an insult is an insult is an insult. You and I have different views yet you still insist on being right, if there is a right in this one. Let it go. I have; I have accepted the ban and just do not care anymore to continue trying to discuss the same subject matter over and over in a different way. If you think I am offending you and wont accept my apology, fine, have the "offensive" material. My opinion is my opinion, regardless of where it is posted. I respect the rules of the forum, and of OP. I don't make duplicate trades, I don't spam, I don't shark, I don't scam. I mostly follow the insult rules like many mods of past have. If you have a problem with me bringing up previous mods, the past is still relevant. All is not forgiven/forgotten just because the bad mod was removed or "talked too". 

 

EDIT: verbiage use change. wrong to disagree. 

 

This time I am really headed out to bed.

[KoDoRiN]

disagree, not everyone on this earth deserves respect. While MOST do, some just cannot be bothered with it and thus do not deserve it.

It's just matter if common decency really. Not everyone is perfect, it doesn't cost much to be nice.

[Blue Screen of Death]

disagree, not everyone on this earth deserves respect. While MOST do, some just cannot be bothered with it and thus do not deserve it. 

 

That's fine. But people on TF2OP deserve respect.

 

 

My post was a response to you. That last sentence was not directed AT you. Awesome understood what I was saying but I honestly cannot tell at this point if you are deliberately trying to be thick or just take what I am saying as a legitimate direct attack at you. Seems like you want an attack here, but benefit of the doubt here. It is unfortunate that you seem to take what I say as an attack but TBH I have no reason nor have I been given any justification to do so. 

 

Then don't use second person personal pronouns or words like "mate". This only directs the speech to a singular person.

I don't need or want any attacks. The only attack made here I see was yours against the site's staff on handling offenses. You used only one case (your own) as evidence, questioning the "banning practices and inconsistencies within the TF2OP site's moderation team". If Liddo counts as the entire site's moderation team, then I will stand corrected.

 

 

 

I understand that you think there are levels of insults while I believe an insult is an insult is an insult. You and I have different views yet you still insist on being right, if there is a right in this one. Let it go. I have; I have accepted the ban and just do not care anymore to continue trying to discuss the same subject matter over and over in a different way. If you think I am offending you and wont accept my apology, fine, have the "offensive" material. My opinion is my opinion, regardless of where it is posted. I respect the rules of the forum, and of OP. I don't make duplicate trades, I don't spam, I don't shark, I don't scam. I mostly follow the insult rules like many mods of past have. If you have a problem with me bringing up previous mods, the past is still relevant. All is not forgiven/forgotten just because the bad mod was removed or "talked too".

 

There's no right or wrong. There is what we (and anyone else) interpret as an insult, and that varies from people to people. You think that's an insult and deserves a ban, that's fine. You can do that when you have your own site and rules. 

 

You can have your opinion, but if you carry it publicly like this be ready to be confronted.

 

How does an act a mod did one year ago reflects the work we do today? Just because someone made stupid bans in the past it means that  the bans we do today are stupid as well? The past mods and their actions are irrelevant, unless proven otherwise. And that's the proof I'm asking for.

[Underscore]

I don't see any insult here? If you think spending time creating alt accounts is a good way of living, that's fine. It takes me 2 seconds to find and ban them. If that's how you want to spend your time, go ahead. Nobody's stopping you. I just think it clearly demonstrates that you cannot accept punishments for your actions. Your number of friends, IQ level and sex frequency has nothing to do with this discussion. If you don't understand what I meant before, I'll paraphrase it: there are plenty of other places to trade items on the web, you don't need to keep creating accounts that will be eventually banned in order to trade things. And other people banned will tell you the same thing.

 

And I believe I have never been unprofessional or rude to you. I let you appeal your ban via Steam chat, what I usually don't do, and discussed your case with several other people. You went and contacted other people behind my back instead of waiting for me to reply to you, and keeps creating topics and posts about this here. Should I consider this an insult too?

 

 

By the way, your case was ruled by Sneeza himself.

 

actually they do, blue screen of death. it proves im better than most of outpost and that I am superior to many of the admins... LOL

 

EDIT: this is out of The gReat Below, abandon thread while you can

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

actually they do, blue screen of death. it proves im better than most of outpost and that I am superior to many of the admins... LOL

 

EDIT: this is out of The gReat Below, abandon thread while you can

very constructive :/

[Hatch Rawer Beryl]

actually they do, blue screen of death. it proves im better than most of outpost and that I am superior to many of the admins... LOL

 

EDIT: this is out of The gReat Below, abandon thread while you can

 

Could someone give him a warning point? Everything he posts is useless garbage.

 

(sorry for being off-topic)

[Pyrocide]

That's fine. But people on TF2OP deserve respect.

 

Then don't use second person personal pronouns or words like "mate". This only directs the speech to a singular person.

I don't need or want any attacks. The only attack made here I see was yours against the site's staff on handling offenses. You used only one case (your own) as evidence, questioning the "banning practices and inconsistencies within the TF2OP site's moderation team". If Liddo counts as the entire site's moderation team, then I will stand corrected.

 

There's no right or wrong. There is what we (and anyone else) interpret as an insult, and that varies from people to people. You think that's an insult and deserves a ban, that's fine. You can do that when you have your own site and rules. 

 

You can have your opinion, but if you carry it publicly like this be ready to be confronted.

 

How does an act a mod did one year ago reflects the work we do today? Just because someone made stupid bans in the past it means that  the bans we do today are stupid as well? The past mods and their actions are irrelevant, unless proven otherwise. And that's the proof I'm asking for.

I will try and make this as clear as possible to the best of my ability.

 

1. Sticks and stones, mate. This was a blunt reminder of the phrase "sticks and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt me".

2. Grow thicker skin and cry about it if that helps. This was a sentence that should have been phrased "People need to grow..." After reading it again I can see the confusion from the receiving side. That was my fault.

3. It is true that I brought into question the banning practices based on my event alone because I saw a problem in the logic behind it. As stated before, this is a community not affiliated with any other site than its own. What is said here by an individual shouldn't be reflected as the site's views. If you see it as such, I feel sorry for you.

4. Bans of the past are still a reputation of the site and still hold true to an extent. Keep in mind that most people remember when they have been wronged. You may abide the forgive and forget rule, however a lot of people myself included do not. Brings to mind another phrase, Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. That isn't to say that all bans are "stupid" or wrong. Instantly perma-banning phishers, good.  But I am leery of just blindly following bans by mods in general. An example: Many people still see bp.tf as the only reason that raised the key price. Never mind the fact that all of the proof came from TF2OP, bazaar, tf2-trader, screenshots from users etc. However it is still a bad reputation seen by many that bp.tf is responsible.

5. I think that if you ban for insults, IMO you cannot fully justify banning for an extremely vulgar insult and not doing anything for just a "slight" insult. You shouldn't pick and choose which insults get a ban and which do not. If you ban for one, you ban for all. Honestly though, I do not think insults should be bannable offense as there are worse things on public television being said/seen than what some avatar said in an online trading community.

6. Liddo is part of the team and thus reflects that mods as a whole. I do not think Liddo's personal opinion, religious/political views or age are those of the rest of the mods, but when he puts on his mod cap he becomes just that, a mod. You are a mod, Sneeza is technically a mod, Helen is a mod. There are bad eggs that have supposedly been dealt with, but they too were part of the mods team and thus are blanketed under that header. Its like all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

7. People receive respect when they respect others. I respect people I meet for the first time, elders, military brother and sisters and those who are deserving it. If you cannot stop yourself from being a disrespectful worm in one sentence then you never had my respect to begin with.

Lastly, I did post it here in a public forum to get opinions of others knowing full well TF2OP mods might see it/be linked to it. You chose to confront me on a personal level, which is fine, in fact I welcomed it, maybe something good would have come from it talking directly to a mod. Alas nothing did, but there was always hope. This is also a C.Y.A. documented instead of just screen shots to show what was said in case the discussion went south, much of that has to do with the trust factor of the mods as a whole, you know the whole "Fuck Off" ban reason. I have maintained civility throughout all of this and have tried to portray my standings and why I posted here. You see it as an attack, so be it. It was originally a discussion that has since gone into something much more than ever intended.

 

Past this clarification as plainly as I can make it out to be I do not believe this discussion is going anywhere. I still question the mods' (as a whole, not Liddo as an individual mod) banning practices and will continue to do so until something is done to make it across the board consistent, if you cannot accept the fact that I as an individual, user and donator of your site has some issues and decided to voice them here rather than risk a perma-ban, then there really is no reason for you to be here. I enjoy discussions that are leading to an end. I enjoy confrontations that have an end, may be a long time to get there, but still it has an objective. This one has been circling the same hole for pages now without really coming to an end. You don't believe there is a problem as human error/judgement is acceptable when certain offenses get banned while other similar offenses do not. I do. If at anytime you wish to ask my help or even to bounce ideas off of me on how to remedy it, I'm all ears/eyes. But until them, cheers mate.

 

Agree to disagree is the appropriate last response here I think.

 

Last note: Underscore, just stop. You are becoming an incessant nuisance that is getting increasingly more annoying with every useless post. It was funny the first post, but since then its now just pathetic plea for attention.

[F CHARLIE]

1. Imo the term "autpost" is indicative of the likely hood of finding a large number of idiots in a large population.

 

2. I agree with the staffs attempts to keep the site profesional and pleasant. A lot of guys treat their trades like its their property.

[Professional Map Painter]

Very constructive to the discussion, thanks.

Please read the forum description next time, nobody takes these threads seriously. These "bad admin" compilations are so old because the great and powerful Mr.Man got banned/no longer updates his site . If similar things happened on other sites, I'm sure that someone would have a record of them but they don't.,  Out of all the other trading sites, only Scrap.tf and Steamrep have been involved in scandals to my knowledge.

[Pyrocide]

Please read the forum description next time, nobody takes these threads seriously.

Actually, when wolfi moved it, that description is no longer valid. lol

[Professional Map Painter]

Actually, when wolfi moved it, that description is no longer valid. lol

B-b-but it was originally in the Great Below.

[Woifi The Viking]

Please read the forum description next time, nobody takes these threads seriously. These "bad admin" compilations are so old because the great and powerful Mr.Man got banned/no longer updates his site . If similar things happened on other sites, I'm sure that someone would have a record of them but they don't.,  Out of all the other trading sites, only Scrap.tf and Steamrep have been involved in scandals to my knowledge.

I have seen much more questionable trade-post and source-op bans than outpost bans, just throwing that in here. And I haven't seen a single bazaar ban until yet so...

[Mr. Man]

Please read the forum description next time, nobody takes these threads seriously. These "bad admin" compilations are so old because the great and powerful Mr.Man got banned/no longer updates his site . If similar things happened on other sites, I'm sure that someone would have a record of them but they don't.,  Out of all the other trading sites, only Scrap.tf and Steamrep have been involved in scandals to my knowledge.

 

I'd actually be embarassed if I were a mod there. Hence why I completely left everywhere at the same time. Since I now actually work instead of wasting my time on the internet, I get to sit back and make snarky remarks while watching all the drama. I still get plenty of Autpost submissions everyday. I just don't even bother updating because I am lazy as fuck.

 

Oh, if you are going to ban people for shaming, you should ban everybody in that Facepunch thread. Let's see how that works out. Then again, Autpost isn't known for maintaining any sort of standards so I don't have any expectations. I'd suggest you cut your current moderation staff and compensate new hires properly. 

 

Though it's now at least 1000x more fun AND I don't have to kiss anybody's ass 

[jorisk322]

Please read the forum description next time, nobody takes these threads seriously. These "bad admin" compilations are so old because the great and powerful Mr.Man got banned/no longer updates his site . If similar things happened on other sites, I'm sure that someone would have a record of them but they don't.,  Out of all the other trading sites, only Scrap.tf and Steamrep have been involved in scandals to my knowledge.

MrMan was banned here? Wouldn't be the first community he got banned from...

Also, I never connected the words 'autpost' and autism. Thought it was just a miss-spelling of Outpost..

 

I think I fully agree with BSOD here though. 'Fuck off' and 'lowball' are not on the same level. You (Pyrocide) say both should be responded to in the same way because the rules allow neither of them. In my opinion that's like saying people who steal a car should get the same punishment as people who steal a bike; they both broke the rules, so they should receive equal punishment.

On the topic of 'growing a thicker skin'. Some people just get 'more insulted' by insults than others. Just because you don't really mind when people insult you doesn't mean you should go around insulting other people.

Saying people should just grow a thicker skin is almost an insult in itself. Just to show you an example of how words CAN hurt: I have been repeatedly insulted myself when I was younger (ie I was bullied), and I'm dealing with social anxiety issues right now because of it (can't be sure of course, but it's been proven it can, and in many cases, does cause it). That's a big problem in day to day life. This might be a little bit more extreme than someone telling someone else to fuck off on a TF2 trading website, but that doesn't really matter. Why allow insults if they're not needed, and can potentially do harm?

[Meltron]

I am le scared help me ((

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/TyDOkhk.jpg

You are already perma banned^^

[F CHARLIE]

May I throw in my two cents?

 

Looking back at LiddoJunior, perhaps he just became excited with his new duties? It happens. It happens to me too; how you are dedicated to administrating correctly, but end up being too overzealous and pick out the simplest things that in fact match the rules. They may meet the rules' criteria, but aren't necessarily...necessary. Eventually one would realize this and end up becoming more calm and professional.

 

P.S., thank you for the unban. :3

 

 

 

If I were Liddo in that case I would have added pyrocide and talked to him about it.  Asked him to kool it.  Is that wrong of me to think that way?

[jorisk322]

If I were Liddo in that case I would have added pyrocide and talked to him about it.  Asked him to kool it.  Is that wrong of me to think that way?

Adding someone over such a small offense/offence would be a waste of time. It was just a short ban...

[Pyrocide]

 

In my opinion that's like saying people who steal a car should get the same punishment as people who steal a bike; they both broke the rules, so they should receive equal punishment.

Adding someone over such a small offense/offence would be a waste of time

 

Not really the same crime though. Grand theft vs petty theft. One is a felony while the other is a misdemeanor.

 

What is a more accurate comparison is stealing a Phantom vs stealing a Civic. Both are grand theft (auto) and both are felonies just one car is a tad more expensive. They are treated the same regardless of cost of the car.

 

I did not add Liddo for that exact reason btw.

 

As a side note, just read some of the entries on your site Mr.Man. Not really what I would call typical Outpost or humorous trades. Specifically speaking about the Marxmann one. No idea why that would be considered as funny a jab at the user.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Not really the same crime though. Grand theft vs petty theft. One is a felony while the other is a misdemeanor.

But they are both theft, and they both do receive a punishment. 

[jorisk322]

I did not add Liddo for that exact reason btw.

I wasn't reacting to you adding him (I didn't even know you did). From your side it could make sense if you didn't understand why you were banned. I meant it would be a waste of time for moderators to add everyone for every little thing they did wrong to discuss the punishment.

[Liddojunior]

This turned into a discussion over something i dont think was intended. 

 

I don't believe there was a double standard. 

 

You can say "lowballer" is just slightly offensive, but I dont believe it is out of line. I thought hiding his post, was enough. What is lowballer, a person who offering a lowball. Lowball is an unrealistically low offer.

If you get honestly offended by being told that you made a very low offer (are a lowballer), im sorry. You could have made a report saying that you were offended. Instead it was a report about a unnecessary comment about prices, which it was. 

 

I thought i handled it correctly, and if any other admin or moderator at outpost, thinks otherwise. I would like for them to tell me, so i can learn to handle future cases more appropriately. 

 

To sum my thought process up: 

Pyrocide - Completely out of line. First ban, and gets a small ban.

Other user - Complains about prices. Gets comment hidden. Is very new, and wasn't in my opinion out of line that i needed to ban him. I'm sure seeing his comment hidden was a warning for the new user.

 

But I'm sure pyrocide knows and understands why he got a small ban. 

 

@ Charlie. I can't go and add and wait to be added. By every user who breaks the rules.  And I don't plan to play favoritism to the community members that i know. 

[Pyrocide]

@Awesome, I guess if you want to blanket term everything down to its simplest form to prove a point; you got me.