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RIP TF2 Betting Sites


foxx

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Geel is going to close saloon.tf and sweetstakes.tf after everyone withdraws their item. Also Julian closed double.tf There is a notification that he is going to close the sites. I think its considered underage gambling. Betting was fun and I think it has a huge part in community. What do you guys think about this ?

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Edit: just saw that double tf is closed temporarily due to exploits and it will be up soon. (Cant edit post on phone)

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This is my first time using bp tf forums on phone. I didnt know that button was for liking a post. And if there is another topic about the same problem i will appreciate if you can send a link.

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I think its considered underage gambling.

 

I don't know, is a child gambling considered underage gambling?

It's about time this happened.

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Funny because Pokemon had Underage gambling in those games

So pretty sure tf2 made a economy for people to make Underage gambling and bait little birds to give em their worms. Pretty sure that's were Underage gambling came from  

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfp9YdVejqs

 

 

RIP.. This guy decided to bet and lost everything.. Turns out he wanted the tf2 logo pyro beanie(his favorite hat) which I had, but don't have enough to pay for it. I sold it anyway.. but the video.. It was his bade and he can't get his hat back :3 Turns out I was featured in the video somehow. 1 like= 1 <3

 

Not for me but him. 

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Funny because Pokemon had Underage gambling in those games

 

Pokemon doesn't allow underage gambling because there isn't any form of gambling in the game. Nothing in the game has any monetary value whatsoever.

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Funny because Pokemon had Underage gambling in those games

So pretty sure tf2 made a economy for people to make Underage gambling and bait little birds to give em their worms. Pretty sure that's were Underage gambling came from  

 

Are you talking about the game corner in pokemon? Because there is a big difference between gambling some number on a screen which have no monetary value compared to what is essentially poker chips (which is worth real world money) of various values for skins.

 

The main difference is that skins hold monetary value, heck after 200 sales steam requires you to fill out forms for IRS with your trading history...etc since any profit made from trading is technically considered income. The point about the tf2/cs:go gambling community is that there are no regulations at all, any form of online gambling has certain laws which need to be followed to whoever you're providing the service to and because all trading is done on the steam platform they are essentially facilitating illicit gambling. The websites can be sued as well...etc but yeah.

 

Afaik for most countries if you provide a form of online gambling you need to have a licence or follow certain laws...etc eg here in Aussie it's illegal to provide and/or advertise any form of online gambling to aussie citizens

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Isn't unboxing a form of underage gambling as well? I don't see anyone complaining about it.

 

Not exactly, unboxing you pay for a randomly generated skin/item and you get said item. Kinda like a kinder surprise, you buy the chocolate and you're promised a X toy inside from Y collection.

 

EDIT: Actually not too sure since before a skin/item wasn't considered a form monetary value since it was the community which placed prices on it. But since steam has essentially made the economy like a stock exchange and has actually acknowledged that it is and has the potential to generate income (refer to my comment about the IRS forms in my above comment)... Guess it's one of those things where no one has sued them yet so they will keep doing it until they are?

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Wasn't double.tf exposed for being a scam site?

Was merely just bugs + Steam servers not working at times, causing people to lose credit. Those previous bugs were fixed.

 

@OP

"Betting was fun and I think it has a huge part in community."

 

Betting and gambling can be fun at times, however, when the fun stops, stop. And even then, sometimes, too much fun can be bad.

 

Some people, in real life and in the CS:GO + TF2 community, see gambling as a way of making money, completely ignoring that it is meant for pure entertainment of using a bit of money. However, due to the lack of regulation for things such as online gambling with items, people can develop such an addiction and continue to gamble as to attempt to make money, especially if they've won a decent amount from gambling before. Addiction can turn a man into his deepest fears and as such, it's good to see that some sites have actually considered disallowing US users to gamble, because of fear of legal action.

 

Well, instead of me ranting about this issue more with my words, I'll just show you some stuff off of Geel's comment wall. A picture is a thousand words. I'd be guessing that about 70% of these are children under the age of 18.

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coouD5n.png

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Not exactly, unboxing you pay for a randomly generated skin/item and you get said item. Kinda like a kinder surprise, you buy the chocolate and you're promised a X toy inside from Y collection.

 

EDIT: Actually not too sure since before a skin/item wasn't considered a form monetary value since it was the community which placed prices on it. But since steam has essentially made the economy like a stock exchange and has actually acknowledged that it is and has the potential to generate income (refer to my comment about the IRS forms in my above comment)... Guess it's one of those things where no one has sued them yet so they will keep doing it until they are?

Since like half the thread is talking about pokemon /exaggeration

That makes me want to raise a point: Isn't buying an opening a Pokemon trading card pack the same as buying a key and opening a crate? The cards in a pack are random and you have a small chance to get a rare foil card.

 

Has Nintendo been sued over Pokemon trading cards?

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Not exactly, unboxing you pay for a randomly generated skin/item and you get said item. Kinda like a kinder surprise, you buy the chocolate and you're promised a X toy inside from Y collection.

 

EDIT: Actually not too sure since before a skin/item wasn't considered a form monetary value since it was the community which placed prices on it. But since steam has essentially made the economy like a stock exchange and has actually acknowledged that it is and has the potential to generate income (refer to my comment about the IRS forms in my above comment)... Guess it's one of those things where no one has sued them yet so they will keep doing it until they are?

 

In my opinion it's undoubtedly gambling now.  We know exactly how much every item is worth now through SCM and like I said in the other thread "Nobody unboxes CSGO cases to get FT blues".  People unbox today because there's a chance that they'll make more than the investment of their key, by getting a red or a knife.  Most of the time they won't though.  So you spend 2.50 for the small chance that you'll get something worth more than 2.50.  If that's not gambling, what is it then?  

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Since like half the thread is talking about pokemon /exaggeration

That makes me want to raise a point: Isn't buying an opening a Pokemon trading card pack the same as buying a key and opening a crate? The cards in a pack are random and you have a small chance to get a rare foil card.

 

Has Nintendo been sued over Pokemon trading cards?

 

 

And to take that further, isn't that pretty much the same thing as baseball cards which have been around for many decades?  

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That makes me want to raise a point: Isn't buying an opening a Pokemon trading card pack the same as buying a key and opening a crate? The cards in a pack are random and you have a small chance to get a rare foil card.

 

Has Nintendo been sued over Pokemon trading cards?

The thing is that isnt considered gambling, you're purchasing cards and you're promised X amount of cards from a designated collection. The cards themselves have a value placed upon them by the users via demand/supply. Compared to steam where they have turned it into a stock market where all items have a global value and have a common place to sell and buy with them taking a cut of every sale.

 

It depends highly on the scale and how it's done, by definition it is a gambling (you're wagering money on a certain event to occur) but in the eyes of the law you're simply purchasing a product.

 

Compared to betting sites where you're wagering skins (which have monetary value, enough that valve submits your trading history to IRS to avoid tax evasion) for more skins and it isn't considered nor can it fall under anything else anything else.

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Has Nintendo been sued over Pokemon trading cards?

 

I'm betting at least one person as tried as I've had to explain to customers many times how trading card packs work when they try to return a pack because they didn't get the cards they wanted.

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The thing is that isnt considered gambling, you're purchasing cards and you're promised X amount of cards from a designated collection. The cards themselves have a inherent value placed upon them by the users via demand/supply. Compared to steam where they have turned it into a stock market where all items have a global value and have a common place to sell and buy with them taking a cut of every sale.

Couldn't the same be argued with crates? That you are buying a random item from a designated collection with the items having value placed upon them by users via supply/demand.

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Couldn't the same be argued with crates? That you are buying a random item from a designated collection with the items having value placed upon them by users via supply/demand.

Which is what I stated in my first comment? The reason i said I'm not too certain since the premise is different since it's "baseline" value is placed there via SCM, having a central trading hub and taking a cut from the sales means it's no longer trading but like a stock market. Before it was essentially like trading cards but since the addition of SCM it has made it blurry.  The thing about law is that you can get fucked over for a technicality, they dont have to show that the entire model for unboxing they can just argue that because the "items" themselves have a inherent baseline value placed on from it's parent company and by extension of that it is now a form of gambling. Thing is it isnt "breaking the rules" until someone sues them and in this case they aren't suring about unboxing but suing valve for facilitating illicit gambling because all trades/services are on valve's platform.

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Out of curiosity I did a little Googling, and in 1999 a group of parents actually sued Nintendo for promoting gambling with their trading cards.  Given that said cards are still sold in stores (and Magic and sports trading cards were long before them), I'm guessing the suit was thrown out or lost.  Like I said in the CS:GO discussion, I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine there's a substantial difference between a crate, blind bag or booster card pack, where you always get something for your money, and gambling where it's an all-or-nothing situation, even if all of those instances involve an element of luck regarding the rate of return on your investment.  

 

Also, Valve (and Nintendo, etc.) can claim that the items you purchase have either no or minimal inherent value, even if obviously their respective communities are willing to pay much more for some items than others.  I'm not sure online gambling sites can use the same excuse, if they allow you to purchase keys as a form of poker chip / fiat for real-world currency (I've never used one, so I might be way off here).  

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Anybody up for a rooster fight in my basement? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Winner gets a a small amount of one million keys

Also opening crates is like betting for a grand prize.Such as going in with all odds, such as getting an unsual with 1% out of everything or losing one key and just earning back 1.33 ref

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