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That comes from a man who then insults the whole European Parliament by saying none of them "have ever done a proper job in their lives, or worked in business, or worked in trade, or indeed ever created a job."

The very same members of the EP that are acting like petulant children.

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Hey, remember when you said

 

Perhaps you should read things through properly before blurting out your opinion on the statistics.

Allow me to give the same advice to you

*Literally pulls out the numbers; states whilst you are correct, you imply that over half are unhappy.*

"Ah yes you have not looked it through and have simply blurted your opinion"

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*Literally pulls out the numbers; states whilst you are correct, you imply that over half are unhappy.*

"Ah yes you have not looked it through and have simply blurted your opinion"

 

 

So ...

First you accuse me of not understanding the numbers. You were wrong.

Next you accuse me of lumpling categories together. You were wrong.

Now you accuse me of linguistical mistakes?

 

It's not like I said "more then 50% is not happy" (which might also be right, but confusion as 'not happy' might mean 'not in the happy category' or 'in the unhappy category')

 

Sorry, but we're talking about a poll about a poll with 3 categories. I didn't imply anything. If you're unable to process that < 50% in categroy A doesn't mean > 50% in category C, that is not my problem.

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You people do realize money is not everything? You cant put a price tag on freedom. 

UK has a strong economy and it will take a hit, but that wont be even close to crash the whole country. 

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So ...

First you accuse me of not understanding the numbers. You were wrong.

Next you accuse me of lumpling categories together. You were wrong.

Now you accuse me of linguistical mistakes?

Quite, I was wrong on the first, needed you to clarify on the second but I'm not quite sure what you mean by the third

Have you got source on the numbers anyway? The link the guy posted came up as an error to me :L

 

Edit: OK So it was brought to my attention that I seemed angry and was somewhat rude in earlier posts, sorry didn't mean for it to come off that way :(

I quite enjoy the back and forth debating and bringing new unheard of stuff to the table, I'll try and be more conscious of what I put in the future in order to avoid looking like a prat and offending anybody.

I honestly wouldn't keep coming to debates if I didn't enjoy them and I hope the rest of you enjoy them also.

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Quite, I was wrong on the first, needed you to clarify on the second but I'm not quite sure what you mean by the third

Have you got source on the numbers anyway? The link the guy posted came up as an error to me :L

 

Edit: OK So it was brought to my attention that I seemed angry and was somewhat rude in earlier posts, sorry didn't mean for it to come off that way :(

I quite enjoy the back and forth debating and bringing new unheard of stuff to the table, I'll try and be more conscious of what I put in the future in order to avoid looking like a prat and offending anybody.

I honestly wouldn't keep coming to debates if I didn't enjoy them and I hope the rest of you enjoy them also.

To be fair, I probbably overracted myself too.

 

As for the source - it's a tweet. it probbably doesn't say more then that.  As far as validity goes, I actually don't trust those numbers anyway (if you round correctly, as a decent source would do, three numbers can't reach 98. there's no way to split the remaining 2% over 3 numbers, all dropping under 0.5 )

 

 

However, my broader point was based in a synical saying, that democracy is the tyranny of the majority: You can't say it's a democratic choice because the majority of people is "happy about it or doesn't care", because likewise, one could make the same argument that it's an undemocratic choice as the majority of people is "unhappy about it or doesn't care".

 

 

 

Heck - completely seperate from the issue at hand, I'm more in favor that a non-mandatory referendum either has >50% of the population voting one way, or >2/3 of the participants voting that way. To prevent the both the 'fickle masses' and the 'vocal minority vs silent majority' syndrom.

Because, to go back to Brexit, like the results or hate the results, it's an undeniable fact that at the time of the vote (which is only one point in time, yes, but an extremely important point) a majority (a slight majority, yes, but still a majority) was thinking one way.

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That said, there is a real danger here and it's not one that will disappear with a populist government.  The problem is how monetary policy is managed (hint: it's totally undemocratic and that is true for virtually every Western country).  Here's how this might play out in terms of monetary policy (hypothetical scenario): 

 

Britain enters a recession, brought about by inflation of the pound and low confidence from the market (remember, I said hypothetical, this might happen, it might not.  We don't know at this point).  In order to keep consumer spending high, Britain's central bank lowers interest rates even further.  The logic behind that is to get more money into the hands of consumers in the form of loans (e.g. mortgages, lines of credit, etc.).  People think this is great at first, because they now have access to more money than they did before.  The effect that will have though is to drive up certain markets, and the primary "benefactor" will be the housing market, which will be driven up by low interest rate mortgages.   So basically, housing prices rise even though you're technically in a recession (to be clear, you don't have more money - you just printed more of it).  This in turn creates a housing bubble that sees properties achieve unrealistic valuations.  But as long as the interest rate is low, people continue to be able to afford high housing costs because the banks are giving them access to mortgages.  

 

I'd hate to say 'I told you so' but...

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/bank-of-englands-carney-sees-need-for-summer-stimulus-after-brexit-shock/article30702137/

 

"Investors already largely expect the Bank to cut interest rates over the summer, taking them below their already record low of 0.5 per cent to possibly as low as zero."

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I'd hate to say 'I told you so' but...

 

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/bank-of-englands-carney-sees-need-for-summer-stimulus-after-brexit-shock/article30702137/

 

"Investors already largely expect the Bank to cut interest rates over the summer, taking them below their already record low of 0.5 per cent to possibly as low as zero."

 

At least the FTSE100 is up at a 2016 high today.. haha, righttt?

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Britain enters a recession, brought about by inflation of the pound and low confidence from the market (remember, I said hypothetical, this might happen, it might not.  We don't know at this point).  In order to keep consumer spending high, Britain's central bank lowers interest rates even further.  The logic behind that is to get more money into the hands of consumers in the form of loans (e.g. mortgages, lines of credit, etc.).  People think this is great at first, because they now have access to more money than they did before.  The effect that will have though is to drive up certain markets, and the primary "benefactor" will be the housing market, which will be driven up by low interest rate mortgages.   So basically, housing prices rise even though you're technically in a recession (to be clear, you don't have more money - you just printed more of it).  This in turn creates a housing bubble that sees properties achieve unrealistic valuations.  But as long as the interest rate is low, people continue to be able to afford high housing costs because the banks are giving them access to mortgages.  

 

Adding on to this are overseas investors who will start buying out the market causing even more of a bubble driven by the falling pound. This is similar to what's happening to Aussie right now due to the unstable oil market the main Aussie exports dropped which in turn lowered our AUD significantly and the "fate" of our economy unstable (from ~88usd to now barely 70usd) which lead to overseas investors buying up houses causing a bubble which is now a major problem over here. Then because houses cost so much people dont spend...etc a loop.

I wouldnt be surprised if UK falls to a similar fate and there are plenty of loopholes which are next to impossible to catch as well unfortunately :S

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http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-czech-president-idUKKCN0ZH4AV

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36681475

 

idk why anyone would want to leave NATO, but this could be the beginning of the end for the EU. It's sad that people have to rely on far-right extremists for eurosceptism, though. In a way, this is similar to the build up to WW2 - with the EU playing the role of the League of Nations, national governments playing the role of Weimar Germany, the far-right playing the role of the Nazis, and the far-left playing the role of the KPD. I just hope it doesn't go down the same route.

 

I guess we should be thankful for UKIP, regardless of what your opinion of them is (I'd only vote for them in European elections), as otherwise people would turn to actual racists - the BNP.

 

Could also compare the EU to the HRE and their squabbling duchies as well.

 

edit:

 

I fear for this country's futureI really doBunch of whinging fascists against democracy. It's like a giant echo chamber (anyone remember the "milifandom"?), and I bet half these people didn't even vote yet they act like we're going to deport all the immigrants and go back to the 50's. For millenials, it's all about "muh holidays in Spain" and "muh year abroad". As if we have to be part of a failing political union in order to have such things. Most probably think the EU is Europe and that CAP isn't fucking over farmers in Africa at this very moment. I wonder if they even realise that 32% of the country voted against transferring sovereignty to Brussels in 1975 yet there were no protests back then.

 

As one commenter put it:

 

"One gets the impression that these self absorbed narcissists are so clueless as to events beyond Planet Islington, they actually don't know what's going on in the rest of the EU."

 

Still waiting for the punishment budget, WW3 and the end of western civilisation though. Oh, and here comes the European nationalism. Disgusting.

 

And now even the BBC has gone mad. Apparently you'll always be an immigrant if you're not Anglo-Saxon, and if you vote leave you're an "Uncle Tom". They're literally turning into the BNP in order to promote their pro-remain agenda. Meanwhile, over in Brussels.

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Adding on to this are overseas investors who will start buying out the market causing even more of a bubble driven by the falling pound. This is similar to what's happening to Aussie right now due to the unstable oil market the main Aussie exports dropped which in turn lowered our AUD significantly and the "fate" of our economy unstable (from ~88usd to now barely 70usd) which lead to overseas investors buying up houses causing a bubble which is now a major problem over here. Then because houses cost so much people dont spend...etc a loop.

I wouldnt be surprised if UK falls to a similar fate and there are plenty of loopholes which are next to impossible to catch as well unfortunately :S

 

Word for word exactly what's happening here too.  Our dollar is ridiculously low and foreign investors are treating our housing market like a stock exchange.  Foreign investment, coupled with a self regulating real estate industry for 10+ years and a ridiculously low interest rate for domestic buyers, are the reasons why for example the Vancouver housing market is one of the most overvalued in the world.  

 

Foreign investors come in, buy properties with cash (usually even over the asking price because who gives a f**** about a hundred grand when you're a multi millionaire and getting a 30% discount on cheap Canadian dollars).  Domestic buyers desperately want to get in the market (because they're being told that the market will never crash and prices can only go up) and the banks make that possible by giving out high mortgages which are justified by artificially low interest rates.  

 

To bring this back to the Brexit issue, the problem is when you have "deregulation" (e.g. housing market) coupled with regulation (the central banks).  It doesn't work.  You can't have one side of the equation running itself while the other side is artificially inflating currency.  That is exactly what happened in 2008 and it appears that we doomed ourselves to repeat this cycle.  You're being promised all this freedom via deregulation, but the central banks are by definition the exact opposite of a free market mechanism.  I really hope the Brits recognize this economic contradiction when some politician will inevitably try to sell it to them as a good thing.  All you're doing is delaying the inevitable (and probably making the inevitable worse as time goes on) severe economic downturn which must happen because we're so indebted that we can barely see a way out anymore.  And Britain will go more into debt, that is for sure.....

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https://www.timeshighereducation.com/comment/brexit-pity-parties-show-how-out-of-touch-academia-is- another interesting article

 

From the comments:

 

Here is why we celebrate Brexit. It is anti racist. That means that Europeans with low skills or no skills at all are not looked upon as being better than other races and nations. So that is one false idea about people who voted to leave properly dealt with. That means that those who wanted to remain are indeed the true racists as it appears they have no insight to the consequences of E.U. laws concerning free movement of European people on other nations and races. The next concerning point is that academia appears to have absolutely no insight to the wider consequences of those E.U. rules. The hugely clear consequence is, they certainly did not anticipate a win for Leaving the E.U. So where does this leave us when considering the intellect of the academics who wanted to Remain. Ignorance plays its part. Ignorance of life outside the university and ignorance of the needs and aspirations of local people on the doorstep of the university. This ignorance of local peoples needs and aspirations cannot continue. Not once has this academic group bothered to self assess themselves. Far from it they have justified their entrenched and very backward thinking, both about people living immediately around them in their local areas, and by placing a remote undemocratic bureaucratic institution ahead of those people. This ignorance is their achilles heel. Clearly more needs to be done to ensure that academics are accountable to local people in the vicinity of a university.

 

It is hilarious to see the remain commentators here (and elsewhere) apoplectic because other people hold a different view and ticked a different box on the ballot paper. It is how democracy works. Deal with it. Furedi's article is wonderfully accurate. Thank you. Probabilistically, many academics voted for Brexit. I did. Many did too. What is more, the probability is that 52% of people who voted to leave come from a variety of ages, social classes, professions and so on. That includes academics. No one has any valid evidence that majority of academics voted to remain therefore will shouty remainers stop announcing that they speak on behalf of other academics without wheeling out a meagre survey with more methodological holes and less sampling validity than fishnet tights. Academics will not admit to having voted to leave the EU because they will be accosted by loud-mouthed pontificating remainers like the ones we see hear responding to Furedi's article. They froth at the mouth but they should show some decorum and accept that the referendum was democratic. Brexit won. Deal with it. There will no doubt be further comments from remainers egging one on to respond to their pity party by decrying words like racist, pleb and so on. It is beyond the pale. Remainers, 1. Do you know what the EU does to non-European students and migrant workers? Pre-Brexit UK shuts overseas students out unless they are very, very rich (see the visa criteria). You can’t migrate to the UK to study or work unless you are an oil mogul’s kid or essentially a white EU citizen. You might be the most highly skilled non-EU job applicant but, sorry, if you’re not EU white go take your competitiveness as a migrant worker elsewhere. We should have a points system in which anyone, regardless of what country they come from, has an equal chance of coming to the UK. The EU is a ridiculous way of shutting out Asians, Africans, North Americans and people from the rest of the world. “EU freedom of movement†is good for shouty remainers carousing to France for their crates of wine and brie but it is a travesty to people excluded from the EU. 2. Do you know what the EU does to farmers outside the EU? The EU is a trade engine whose tariffs and protectionist measures crush farmers and manufacturers in developing countries so that they sell at a loss or forget selling to the EU. The EU won’t pay a fair market price because it can get away with it muscling the poor to take whatever trade deal the EU offers. 3. Do you know what the EU does to UK workers? It raises unemployment and pushes down wages. That is a fact. It is appalling when UK companies took to advertising jobs in the EU and not in the UK, barring UK workers from applying. One can go on and on about the UK’s right to sovereign law-making and so forth but I suspect that the apoplectic remainers are too far gone up their * to listen to anything that anyone has to say unless they are sheep agreeing with them.

 

Nigel Farage ... that's the guy who wanted a second referendum if the score was 52-48, right?


*whispers*

... what?

oh, my mistake. he wanted a second referendum if he lost by 52-48.

 

... Funny how that goes.

 

 

 

david-cameron-david-cameron-the-leave-ca

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