welp *sharking* is safe now

[The Brave Little Kitten]

http://forums.acefortress.com/threads/no-longer-accepting-shark-reports.18473/
 

 

gg

[Sheep]

It was kinda silly for a sharker to have a place dedicated to reporting sharks anyway.

 

http://forums.acefortress.com/threads/confession-of-a-scammer.17352/

 

"that's illegal"

 

"scam" 

 

What an idiot.

 

I would read more but i don't want to get turned on  mad while laughing at the same time.

 

 

[@@@@@@]

Who cares about "sharking"? EVERYONE has done it. You can't prove or disprove it.

[The Killjoy]

I'm innocent until proven guilty

[Chief D]

Never heard about that site before. Also, can't you report to sop as well? or steamrep or something. Also, change the title please, some people might find it offensive.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

welp jewing is safe now

Please be more offensive.......

Never heard about that site before. Also, can't you report to sop as well? or steamrep or something. Also, change the title please, some people might find it offensive.

MCT/Ace were the only ones who would deal with shark reports.

SR does NOT mark sharks, and SOP doesn't deal with sharkers(as they're part of SR). Currently if you're proven to be a shark you get banned by MCT and there affiliates (UTC/UHC/MCT/TF2Trader/OP/Ace)

[Distinctively Vincent]

Didn't even know this site exists.

 

I recall at least one instance of steamrep taking action and marking a shark. Anyone know if they do so regularly and roughly how successful they are in getting them marked?

 

Edit: There's my answer right above I guess

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Didn't even know this site exists.

 

I recall at least one instance of steamrep taking action and marking a shark. Anyone know if they do so regularly and roughly how successful they are in getting them marked?

SR does NOT mark sharks at all. The worst that can happen to a shark is they get banned from trade servers/have their rep tarnished. (SOP will often Forum ban shark/close their rep thread)

[Distinctively Vincent]

Yeah, you're definitely right. Found the case I was thinking of, the fellow's banned from several sites but he's otherwise unmarked on steamrep.

[Puddilicious]

So what percentage of the value of an item is considered sharking? 50%? 20%?

 

It's funny cause you could say trading 6 normal hats for a Logo Trilby is sharking, yet paying 90 buds for a Burning Team Captain isn't sharking.

 

In the first case, you're making like 1.5 buds profit. In the latter case, you're making 10 buds profit. Sharking seems like a stupid thing to care about.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

So what percentage of the value of an item is considered sharking? 50%? 20%?

 

It's funny cause you could say trading 6 normal hats for a Logo Trilby is sharking, yet paying 90 buds for a Burning Team Captain isn't sharking.

 

In the first case, you're making like 1.5 buds profit. In the latter case, you're making 10 buds profit. Sharking seems like a stupid thing to care about.

Sharking by definition is taking advantage.

 

So buying a 10 bud unusual for 1 bud is not necessarily sharking. If the buyer knows a hats general worth, what he sells it for means nothing. I.e. if someone with an unusual worth 10 buds is asking for 5 buds, then its not sharking, because the simple fact that hes asking for 5 buds shows that he has a general idea of what its worth (whether that idea is correct or not doesn't really matter).

[Distinctively Vincent]

A person who accepts 90 buds on a burning Team Captain is clearly aware of the value of buds and the potential of the burning Team Captain. They know what they can get from it, their decision to take less than its potential is fully informed. A person trading a logo Trilby for 6 normal hats is fully unaware of how valuable an unusual is compared to the normal hats and, if informed, would not have made that trade. Odds are very high the individual with the 6 normal hats took advantage of the trader's lack of knowledge and lied, manipulated, and pressured the victim into trading.

 

The issue is not how much profit is being made. The issue is intentionally taking full advantage of someone's lack of knowledge.

 

That's not to say there isn't a fuzzy line. As brought up by the 50% vs. 20% question, it can't be absolutely quantified. But looking at it strictly from the perspective of how much one trader is 'profitting' is completely ignoring the primary reason why sharking is so widely detested.

[Puddilicious]

Sharking by definition is taking advantage.

 

So buying a 10 bud unusual for 1 bud is not necessarily sharking. If the buyer knows a hats general worth, what he sells it for means nothing. I.e. if someone with an unusual worth 10 buds is asking for 5 buds, then its not sharking, because the simple fact that hes asking for 5 buds shows that he has a general idea of what its worth (whether that idea is correct or not doesn't really matter).

I guess all you have to say is "you can probably get more for that hat" after you make your offer and you're scott free from any accusation of sharking.

[Puddilicious]

A person who accepts 90 buds on a burning Team Captain is clearly aware of the value of buds and the potential of the burning Team Captain. They know what they can get from it, their decision to take less than its potential is fully informed. A person trading a logo Trilby for 6 normal hats is fully unaware of how valuable an unusual is compared to the normal hats and, if informed, would not have made that trade. Odds are very high the individual with the 6 normal hats took advantage of the trader's lack of knowledge and lied, manipulated, and pressured the victim into trading.

 

The issue is not how much profit is being made. The issue is intentionally taking full advantage of someone's lack of knowledge.

 

That's not to say there isn't a fuzzy line. As brought up by the 50% vs. 20% question, it can't be absolutely quantified. But looking at it strictly from the perspective of how much one trader is 'profitting' is completely ignoring the primary reason why sharking is so widely detested.

Let's assume the guy who's accepting the 90 buds for his Team Captain doesn't know that it's worth 100 buds. Is he being sharked?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I guess all you have to say is "you can probably get more for that hat" after you make your offer and you're scott free from any accusation of sharking.

Not really. "You can probably get more" could mean anything between 1 scrap to 100 buds more, and isn't really informing the seller of anything he doesn't already know.

 

To truly avoid the accusation of sharking:

The situation: Someone put up a Trade on OP/TP trying to sell a 3 bud unusual for 1 weapon

What happens: A bunch of people add the guy saying its barely worth the weapon (<--Sharks). BUT a good samaritan also adds him and informs him that the hat is worth roughly 2 buds (200 Refined), i'd be more than happy to do the trade, but you should know this is a horrible deal for you.

 

@Gold, No, as long as the person has a general idea its not sharking, i value my p energy mirror around 3 buds (bptf values it around 1.8), would i be sharking if i paid 2 buds for it? or if i tried to sell it for 3? --No, because not everyone values unusuals exactly the same. So, as long as the seller has a general idea of the hats worth its not sharking.

[Puddilicious]

Not really. "You can probably get more" could mean anything between 1 scrap to 100 buds more, and isn't really informing the seller of anything he doesn't already know.

 

To truly avoid the accusation of sharking:

The situation: Someone put up a Trade on OP/TP trying to sell a 3 bud unusual for 1 weapon

What happens: A bunch of people add the guy saying its barely worth the weapon (<--Sharks). BUT a good samaritan also adds him and informs him that the hat is worth roughly 2 buds (200 Refined), i'd be more than happy to do the trade, but you should know this is a horrible deal for you.

 

@Gold, No, as long as the person has a general idea its not sharking, i value my p energy mirror around 3 buds (bptf values it around 1.8), would i be sharking if i paid 2 buds for it? or if i tried to sell it for 3? --No, because not everyone values unusuals exactly the same. So, as long as the seller has a general idea of the hats worth its not sharking.

I'm saying he has no idea what it's worth and is accepting the 90 buds just cause he likes the offer. Is he being sharked?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I'm saying he has no idea what it's worth and is accepting the 90 buds just cause he likes the offer. Is he being sharked?

So, i'm assuming he unboxed the Tc and was offered 90 buds, and he has no clue what its worth ($1 or $4000)

I'd still say no.

Is he really being taken advantage of?

Also, unusuals are very subjective, there are no set prices.

 

Except, keep in mind, of someone is willing to take 90 buds then they're clearly a profit trader (no average player would take 90 of the same item), so the fact that he would accept the 90 buds shows he probably has some idea of their worth (as hes a trader), and therefore has a rough idea of his item's worth.

[Puddilicious]

So, i'm assuming he unboxed the Tc and was offered 90 buds, and he has no clue what its worth ($1 or $4000)

I'd still say no.

Is he really being taken advantage of?

Also, unusuals are very subjective, there are no set prices.

At what point does it become sharking though? 80 buds? 70 buds? 50 buds?

 

Obviously 90% doesn't meet your criteria for sharking, but I assume that there is some percentage that would?

[Distinctively Vincent]

I'm not going to be dragged into an arbitrary nitpicky theoretics argument. If someone knows enough to understand a big pile of buds is desirable, they know enough to understand or, at the very least, how to seek out unusual value.

[Puddilicious]

So, i'm assuming he unboxed the Tc and was offered 90 buds, and he has no clue what its worth ($1 or $4000)

I'd still say no.

Is he really being taken advantage of?

Also, unusuals are very subjective, there are no set prices.

 

Except, keep in mind, of someone is willing to take 90 buds then they're clearly a profit trader (no average player would take 90 of the same item), so the fact that he would accept the 90 buds shows he probably has some idea of their worth (as hes a trader), and therefore has a rough idea of his item's worth.

Knowing what a buds is worth has nothing to do with knowing how much a certain unusual hat is worth. He could simply know that buds are worth 20+ keys and having 90 of them offered to him is just an amazing offer. At the same time, he could have no idea what the unusual hat is worth.

[Puddilicious]

I'm not going to be dragged into an arbitrary nitpicky theoretics argument. If someone knows enough to understand a big pile of buds is desirable, they know enough to understand or, at the very least, how to seek out unusual value.

He could know that 1 buds is desirable, which doesn't necessarily mean he knows anything about unusual hats or their value. You'd be surprised how many people would fall under such a category.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Knowing what a buds is worth has nothing to do with knowing how much a certain unusual hat is worth. He could simply know that buds are worth 20+ keys and having 90 of them offered to him is just an amazing offer. At the same time, he could have no idea what the unusual hat is worth.

Except the fact that he knows what a bud is worth implies that he has some idea as to the worth of an unusual, therefore not sharking. Also, i'm with vince, you're making up theoretical stories which will never actually happen. Plausible stories: Someone buys a burning tc for a couple ref, or for 100~ buds. So, the seller either has no idea (since he sold it for a couple ref), or a pretty good idea since he sold it for 100~ buds. End of story.

 

Also, there is no set percent, its scenario-specific.

 

Furthermore, you can make the assumption, if someone knows what a bud is worth, then you can assume they also have a general sense to the value of an unusual.

[Chief D]

Well, edited the title. Go on.

[Puddilicious]

Except the fact that he knows what a bud is worth implies that he has some idea as to the worth of an unusual, therefore not sharking. Also, i'm with vince, you're making up theoretical stories which will never actually happen. Plausible stories: Someone buys a burning tc for a couple ref, or for 100~ buds. So, the seller either has no idea (since he sold it for a couple ref), or a pretty good idea since he sold it for 100~ buds. End of story.

 

Also, there is no set percent, its scenario-specific.

 

Furthermore, you can make the assumption, if someone knows what a bud is worth, then you can assume they also have a general sense to the value of an unusual.

I take issue with your assumption that anyone who knows what a buds is worth will always knows what unusual hats are worth too, but I'm fine to agree to disagree on the matter. I think you have spent too much time around traders. I actually play TF2 and talk to many non-traders on a daily basis. I can assure you that knowledge of unusual hats and their worth is not known to the majority of TF2 players and that the value of buds is much more commonly known.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I take issue with your assumption that anyone who knows what a buds is worth will always knows what unusual hats are worth too, but I'm fine to agree to disagree on the matter. I think you have spent too much time around traders. I actually play TF2 and talk to many non-traders on a daily basis. I can assure you that knowledge of unusual hats and their worth is not known to the majority of TF2 players and that the value of buds is much more commonly known.

O, i agree that more people know about buds than unusuals, BUT if someone is offered 90 buds, then its quite clear what they have is quite valuable, so they're not going to just think they're getting a "Really really good deal" (which is the case of most sharks).