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What happened to TF2-T?


Gren

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I am not here to defend SOP, I am not affiliated with them in any way, and I don't stand to gain anything from you using any particular website for reputation threads. I am well aware of past issues with SOP, and I don't need to re-review the drama from ages past. Their past "rep threads are gone" scare is a very legit reason to not have your reputation thread on SourceOP, and I can think of other solid reasons, but it says nothing about the legitimacy of reputation threads they do have, or about whether you should have a reputation thread elseware. Just because a reputation thread won't last forever doesn't mean a trader shouldn't trust it as valid reputation, or that they should trust profile comments. Any site can take reputation threads offline, or like MCT/TF2-T the whole site could vanish the next day. I don't care where you have a reputation thread - and several other examples have been given here. You're well-known enough you might not even need one. Hell, Steamgifts.com from what I gather has something against SteamRep and you'd probably fit in nicely there. With as many communities I've seen go dark, I'd recommend someone have several threads and spread their reputation out instead of relying on one source like you did. What I am saying is to stop telling people to trust profile comments as reputation.
 
Profile comments are more handy for you because they leave you in control. That runs in sharp contrast with the purpose of reputation threads, where by nature you do not control them. It's similar in principle to a trusted third party or score board, because both traders trust that source for reputation, and trust that neither trader has the ability to moderate their own reputation per the 3rd party's policies. If you can moderate your reputation thread, it's not valid. Ability to moderate reputation threads is even more handy for scammers. Ever see those scammy YouTube videos with high search rankings and rating disabled after a couple "likes", where you see a ton of appraising comments and comments appear open but if you try to comment yourself it goes into a moderation queue? Exactly the same concept here. It works wonders for the scammers trying to stand out and look legit, and to some extent is has the same effect with you, but it doesn't differentiate you from another one of many scammers playing the same game and it's something we strongly discourage people from trusting if they don't want to get scammed.
 
This kind of "You shouldn't trust reputation threads because look what happened to me! Trust profile comments instead!" fear mongering is exactly the kind of thing we see scammers passing to victims to make themselves look legit. They make all the same arguments about why profile comments a valid/ideal form of reputation, just like we see them linking your Reddit threads when a victim points out a BANNED tag for PayPal scams, right as they scam another victim ignoring all the warning signs. You like it because it's easy to get, and easy to keep. Actual reputation is hard to build and maintain. You don't see this as an issue because you haven't been scammed, and will probably either catch other red flags or only trade with people you already know and trust. Problem is, reputation threads aren't about you, and your ability to be trusted, they're about everyone else, and their evaluation of unbiased information about whether you are trustworthy. Sure you know your "+rep" comments are legit, but how is everyone else in the community, who you claim should trust them, supposed to verify they're legit? By taking your word for it? Should they take a scammer's word for it? Other traders who don't have the luxury of being well known or having reliable contacts they can sell to without worrying about getting scammed by, need something legitimate they can rely on to determine if a buyer/seller can be trusted. If they see experienced and well-known traders like you asserting they should trust profile comments as a deciding factor on whether to trust a buyer/seller, and take what you say at face value, they will inevitably get scammed because of it.

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So your well aware of SOPs past yet your happy to throw out this statement - "they've been around about as long as trading has existed in TF2 and have long been regarded as a premier source of reputation threads"

 

Where did I say you should trust profile rep and not trust forum rep? This is what you seem only to be discussing but this is not what I have been saying.

 

What I am saying, to safeguard your own legit rep the safest practice is to ask for it to be placed on your profile, as there are evident risks in trusting 3rd parties to own your reputation.

 

The legitimacy of what + Rep is placed on a users profiles as well as on forums is always going to be up for question. But this is not what I am trying to point out, simply I am saying it's best to own your own rep. 

 

There are many practices to post legit and evident rep on your profile and there are also practices to identify bullshit rep.

 

Combining profile rep, with these practices is the clear winner imo.

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Sure you know your "+rep" comments are legit, but how is everyone else in the community, who you claim should trust them, supposed to verify they're legit? By taking your word for it?

 

No, obviously they will not take your word for it and will be expected to use some logic, the same as they would when going through forum rep.

 

Lets consider a couple different + Rep types

 

- There's the ones from Bobsplosion which holds a lot of weight

 

- There's the ones for lvl 1 accounts which also seem to have a lot of + rep all in a short space of time these hold 0 weight and instantly makes the person you are dealing with suspicious

 

- Then there's ones with detailed information, and evidence of the said trade, As an example of good requested rep to be left on your profile:

 

+ Rep, I sold this user a Sunbeams Modest to this user for PayPal, he sent the funds first and I then sent the item (item ID= xxxxxxxxxx)

 

With this requested note the ID can be tracked if need be, if there was a chargeback there will be a pending report or a tag on SteamRep. If I am looking at this rep I can very quickly click on their name, see the legitimacy of that account and factor that in with the other + Reps and move on.

 

In short you can manage how well your reputation is presented.

 

With good practices + Rep on profiles can be undeniable and as mentioned before risk free of being deleted.

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tldr nobody cares just talk more about creamygoodness & tiensto  I MEAN SOME ADMIN 

 

I like creamy, mud always seemed to be thrown at his direction but to me none of it stuck. Do you know anything I don't? You can PM me if you like :)

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This is their comment (assuming from YOTO, but since i'm banned I can't confirm)

"So basically yeah, I really can't bring myself to care about your bullshit trading threads or "rep." you suggest we burden ourselves further simply because you didnt pay attention? go cry on reddit about it or something I see your point for an archive but it would be a waste (for the site to keep it) and counter productive to keep traders around here."

https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/1w5xcs/sourceop_has_removed_all_tradingrelated_sections/

Suggest you research your accusations more thoroughly. You have a habit of posting false statements often enough I would assume by now you would have started to fact-check (or stop intentionally misleading) so you stop embarrassing yourself.

 

(Sorry for the late reply, did not see this thread until recently)

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Suggest you research your accusations more thoroughly. You have a habit of posting false statements often enough I would assume by now you would have started to fact-check (or stop intentionally misleading) so you stop embarrassing yourself.

 

(Sorry for the late reply, did not see this thread until recently)

 

So you pretty much just posted nothing in reply and have just left a note trying to discredit me...

 

You saying I have a habit of posting false statement is a false statement in itself.

 

What have I posted that isn't fact?  how about you tell me about 3 of them?

 

I have highlighted many legit concerns that exist and this is another one of these.

 

Was that quote from you or someone else? I can't log in to the said thread as you need an account to sign in which I don't have so I assumed it was you as you are know to have I don't give a fuck attitude.

 

But to the point it should be evident that SOP shouldn't be trusted to be holding rep with the presented facts that.

 

- You have deleted high profile rep based on nothing else than personal feelings (fact)

- SOP has hidden rep previously (fact)

- A SOP Rep has said they don't care to much about rep (fact)

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Do your own fact checking, stop misleading others, I posted no such comment and I'm sure you are aware of that already and simply dont care if you intentionally misinform others (its your thing to do). It also is no secret that SOP banned users/scammers who attempt to leach off the site after being banned have certain threads removed from view as a way to discourage them from visiting, rep thread and any recent sales threads, no conspiracy on that one (less then a dozen times a year users are caught doing this, probably another dozen warnings given to members  [not bans])

 

But that is not what happened in your case (after you intentionally mislead others saying your thread was deleted, and proven it was not) you simply were wiped from our site, no trace of you at all left. You agreed to our site rules that say we can do just that. The only one here with a vendetta is you being butthurt over it and why you keep bringing it up.

 

SR thread Ref: http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/97426

SOP site rules Ref: http://forums.sourceop.com/misc.php?do=vsarules

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Do your own fact checking, stop misleading others, I posted no such comment and I'm sure you are aware of that already and simply dont care if you intentionally misinform others (its your thing to do). It also is no secret that SOP banned users/scammers who attempt to leach off the site after being banned have certain threads removed from view as a way to discourage them from visiting, rep thread and any recent sales threads, no conspiracy on that one (less then a dozen times a year users are caught doing this, probably another dozen warnings given to members  [not bans])

 

But that is not what happened in your case (after you intentionally mislead others saying your thread was deleted, and proven it was not) you simply were wiped from our site, no trace of you at all left. You agreed to our site rules that say we can do just that. The only one here with a vendetta is you being butthurt over it and why you keep bringing it up.

 

SR thread Ref: http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/97426

SOP site rules Ref: http://forums.sourceop.com/misc.php?do=vsarules

 

You said I have consistently mislead others but can't point to anything. You are making that claim not me so it's on you to prove that I am misleading others.

 

I said i assumed it was you, and I said that I can't log into that page. But besides the point what I have said still holds true and the fact that you deleted my reputation adds weight to what I was saying. I am simply stating facts which is evident. So you linked a thread where there's evidence of you deleting my Rep based on a personal issue.

 

Did you not delete my rep based on a personal issue? How about answer this question with a simple yes or no.

 

What I am saying here is that users shouldn't feel safe in having their rep hosted on SOP.

 

My reasoning is that:

 

A: In SOP history a rep has said they don't care about rep

B. They have previously hidden all rep

C. You a SOP rep has deleted my rep based on a personal issue

 

Can you understand how these highlight and are strong evidence in the point I am raising here? that people should think twice about posting their rep on SOP. Lets leave personal issues aside and focus on the facts. Lets say I mislead a million people which I haven't, these don't take away from these facts and you saying that I mislead people (without being able to provide evidence) is just a means to discredit me and take away from the facts.

 

You pointing to the SOP rules highlights this even more as in your rules you state you can remove content, ect and have done so, this is my point. As a private website you have the power to delete users rep for any given reason. I am not saying you can't do this, I am saying that you can do this and this is why people should post their rep where it can remain protected.

 

I did not post here to make things personal, I posted here to give my opinion on why I think leaving rep on your profile is better than trusting 3rd party websites to manage them. The way SOP handles some rep is evidence and how TF2-T has folded is also evidence, these facts can't be disputed and this is why I am of the belief that if you want to safe guard your rep, then ask for it to be left on your profile.

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Fact: no.

 

haha ok, well you did delete my rep for personal or non personal reasons. If it wasn't a personal reason then I don't why else.

 

But fact still stands, you did delete my rep with no reason given. I mentioned this with other things as to why I feel third party sites shouldn't be trusted to manage rep. I've made my point clear.

 

Just to quote your partner admin at SR

 

"I am well aware of past issues with SOP, and I don't need to re-review the drama from ages past. Their past "rep threads are gone" scare is a very legit reason to not have your reputation thread on SourceOP,"

 

This is what it's about, that SOP and it's shady history is reason not to have rep hosted there. Feel free to dispute this and the issue at hands but you can't so instead you look to try and discredit me. Lets say I lied a million times and you have evidence of this (you can't even present points when trying to discredit me) those lies don't make the statement here false.

 

So either contribute to the discussion or move along.

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1. You imply it was me (wrongly) 2. Already stated reason. You wanted a simple yes/no answer, you got one, dont be mad its not what you expected.

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1. You imply it was me (wrongly) 2. Already stated reason. You wanted a simple yes/no answer, you got one, dont be mad its not what you expected.

 

1. Read back, I said I assume and have good reason to assume and you haven't provided evidence to say otherwise so I still assume it's you. It really doesn't matter anyway and doesn't take away from the discussion either way.

 

2. 0ZOsPYq.png

 

But yeah your co workers don't even trust your website to manage rep and you haven't given any reasons into why people should trust SOP to manage rep. So unless you can prove otherwise and with the solid evidence I have presented. SOP shouldn't be trusted to manage rep. Your free to dispute, but really you came here in attempts to discredit me to shift away from the presented facts. This is what you do when there's discussions and you have nothing to add but don't like the presented facts.

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You are well known for believing your own version of the "truth", I am not here to convince you otherwise, that is a pointless endeavor. Just wanted to correct some of your misinformation and warn others not to take your "assumptions" as "fact" as you present them to be.

 

Thanks for the chat.

B)

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You are well known for believing your own version of the "truth", I am not here to convince you otherwise, that is a pointless endeavor. Just wanted to correct some of your misinformation and warn others not to take your "assumptions" as "fact" as you present them to be.

 

Thanks for the chat.

B)

 

haha as assumed, I've provided clear evidence and you have nothing to dispute it.

 

What I have said is SOP and 3rd party partners shouldn't be trusted to hold rep.

 

You obviously got upset about the SOP part and came in to try and discredit me, without disputing my claims to the topic at hand.

 

Fact: You have deleted my REP

Fact: A SOP rep has said they don't care about rep

Fact: Your own SR Staff member has said SOP shouldn't be trusted to manage rep

Fact: SOP shouldn't be trusted with holding rep with the above being considered

 

FYI you haven't corrected anything, you have left no evidence, like i said feel free to dispute any of the above claims which highlights why SOP shouldn't be trusted.

 

You can't so on your way.

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But yeah your co workers don't even trust your website to manage rep and you haven't given any reasons into why people should trust SOP to manage rep. So unless you can prove otherwise and with the solid evidence I have presented. SOP shouldn't be trusted to manage rep. Your free to dispute, but really you came here in attempts to discredit me to shift away from the presented facts. This is what you do when there's discussions and you have nothing to add but don't like the presented facts.

What co workers are those? If you're referring to me (we're not "co workers" because SteamRep admins are unpaid volunteers), I never said I don't trust SOP to manage reputation. On the contrary I'd trust a SourceOP reputation thread more than I'd have trusted a TF2-Trader thread in the past few months, considering they weren't actively monitored or moderated - SOP reputation is harder to establish and maintain (your ban is evidence of this), which is part of why it's valuable. And no, that doesn't mean I'm defending anything about their past; trusting them to continue hosting reputation is not the same as trusting the content they actually do host. I just said there are reasons not to have your reputation on their site. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution, and there are multiple reasons why certain individuals would be better off elseware. Whether you or anyone else trusts SourceOP and in what capacity, is a personal decision for that person to make. If you don't trust SOP that's fine, but that doesn't mean you and everyone else should give credibility to profile comments.

 

And now you're calling out YATO for "attempts to discredit me"? Isn't that what that Reddit propaganda post you just made, conveniently right after YATO's reply, was about? The original version before you edited it even said something about a message "to discredit me" on some forums without naming them or giving a link... In the matter of YATO replying here, if you rip on someone's community, that community's admins have a right to come and defend themselves. Don't you think that's fair? Not to mention, as community admins who get to see the aftermath of people scammed "because he had more +reps than me" way more than we care to, both YATO and myself have very serious concerns about your latest push for traders to trust profile comments as legitimate reputation. Which contrary to your point above,

What I am saying here is that users shouldn't feel safe in having their rep hosted on SOP.

you're actually advocating people do away with 3rd-party hosted reputation threads altogether, and trusting profile comments, as seen here:

 

I think at this point it's best to be leaving rep on your profile as well or if possible on the steam forums.

We see this from different perspectives, my perspective is from the user, where yours is from a rules standpoint. As a user I trust them a lot and my best practices involves using them as a means of undeniable certainty of who the poster is which I can't always do with a forum post. 

 

My simplest & most evident check:

 

Is to go to their profile > do the standard quick checks > go to their first couple "+ rep" comment > look at when dated and consider that >  search those accounts in backpack.tf > Continue that cycle until i feel comfortable

 

It's quick, comes with 100% poster proof & and isn't at risk of being deleted.

 

The evidence of this check pointing the poster to the account is undeniable where with a forum post the same could not be said, this statement alone should highlight why profile rep is better than forum rep.

 

A good example of profile comment for me is a comment from toughsox, I have a ban on tf2outpost.com and he left a note saying that people can trade with me without having to worry about a ban. Some traders didn't want to run a risk and trade with me then get banned but pointing them to that message from toughsox sorts that concern out. If someone had a +Rep with detailed notes from a friend or yours or a very trusted trader then that should hold massive weight when weighing things up.

 

If I didn't have profile rep my trading would have been a lot harder and i'm sure it's the same with other affected users. If someone didn't have profile rep and had decided to delete all their comments at some point they could then even be considered a suspicious account to some.

...I posted here to give my opinion on why I think leaving rep on your profile is better than trusting 3rd party websites to manage them. The way SOP handles some rep is evidence and how TF2-T has folded is also evidence, these facts can't be disputed and this is why I am of the belief that if you want to safe guard your rep, then ask for it to be left on your profile.

 

This is about traders following best practices we set out to keep them safe, and you working overtime to undermine them because of some kind of personal vendetta.

 

If we were really posting here to discredit you, it would be obvious. Would you like me to try some loaded BigMac187 tactics real quick, to see what that would look like?

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SNIP

 

You said that in this thread clearly "I am well aware of past issues with SOP, and I don't need to re-review the drama from ages past. Their past "rep threads are gone" scare is a very legit reason to not have your reputation thread on SourceOP, and I can think of other solid reasons," you both work together on SteamRep paid or not. Are you trying to say that because you don't get paid you don't work together? Do volunteer fire fighters in the same district not work together?

 

Yes I posted that thread on Reddit, but what does that have to do with this discussion and what I said there was clearly fact and points to corruption.

 

Are you able to dispute any of those facts? I was marked out of process and the ok was given by SteamRep to mark me out of their process, all while SteamRep knew that there was an incoming policy change that would correct people like myself being incorrectly labeled as a scammer. The corruption here can't be denied and I will love for you to try and deny it. Why will SteamRep tell FoG it's ok to mark me out of process if they knew that the process they were marking me on was incorrectly marking innocent people, with my case being a prime example? So you know about my Reddit post, why don't you reply there disprove my evident claim? Even the person trying to stick up for you has said "Everyone knows SR mods have scummy practices by now." open your eyes and see things for what they are.

 

The truth is that SteamRep has a lot of different issues, and me highlighting and giving evidence about many different issues with SteamRep isn't on me, it's on SteamRep. I've always presented facts but like now when you can't argue the presented facts you then bring up other issues I've highlighted instead of disproving what I have said in the current discussion. Just like you did here, you point to something else to divert away from this discussion, YOLO did it and failed and left and now your pointing elsewhere. Lets just focus on this issue, I'm happy to discuss the many other issues with SteamRep but it takes away from this discussion.

 

What I said in this thread is that for a person to safe guard there own rep it's best for them to leave it on their profile, I am not discussion the best practices endorsed by SR. Your practices don't safe guard users from having their rep deleted from 3rd party websites. TF2-T has disappeared, SOP as you said in your own words shouldn't be trusted. This is the point I have raised here, it's very logical. To ensure your rep remains live it's best to manage it yourself and not to trust a 3rd party that could fold or delete your rep at any time.

 

Sure feel free to try a BigMac187 and present facts, this is what I have done.

 

Facts in relations to this discussion.

 

- 3rd Party websites can delete your rep without your say

- 3rd party websites have deleted users rep without their say

- 3rd party websites have folded without notice

- Leaving your rep and managing your own rep is the only way to safe guard it

 

Simple evident facts, feel free to present your own when discussing safe guarding your own rep.

 

Lets not drag this is the mud, my statement was clear and that the best way to safe guard rep is to request it to be left on your profile. Can you argue that this is not the safest place for someone to request rep with the aim of safe guarding their rep? I made it clear earlier that I am not stating best practices, this is something else and imo the best practices still involve leaving Rep on your profile.

 

On another note, I've caught you out lying and misquoting me many times and you've done so again here.

 

This is what I said,

 

"Yeah that's a shame, I think at this point it's best to be leaving rep on your profile as well or if possible on the steam forums. SOP ban users pretty easily so having rep there is a risk and any 3rd party website (tf2-t as an example) can fold at any time."

 

Where you are saying "you're actually advocating people do away with 3rd-party hosted reputation threads altogether, and trusting profile comments, as seen here:" you quoted this to justify this statement "What I am saying here is that users shouldn't feel safe in having their rep hosted on SOP" wow, like you even said it yourself that people shouldn't be trusting SOP to be hosting their rep due to their past but then you use my statement which mirrors what you have already said in attempts to disprove me. It's also not even related to safe guarding rep which is what I have been highlighting.

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Yes I posted that thread on Reddit, but what does that have to do with this discussion and what I said there was clearly fact and points to corruption.

I dunno... why did you post it right after YATO's reply in this thread, calling him out for "trying to discredit me" without a link or saying where, only to edit that part out of your post? Sure looks like you're trying to retaliate or intimidate him with more of your smear campaign for saying you're full of shit.

 

Are you able to dispute any of those facts?

Your thread is titled "Evidence of SteamRep Corruption" but you proceed to say in the 2nd paragraph of it

 

If any reader needs any piece of evidence let me know and I will link you in. There is evidence for everything I've said but linking in and digging up everything is be very time consuming but ask and you shall receive.

What is there to dispute or disprove in there? You didn't provide any evidence, just another propaganda "PSA" to try and continue giving SteamRep a bad image with nothing to support it. The title was "Evidence of SteamRep Corruption" but you put no evidence in that thread. You're basically saying "I got tons of evidence that SteamRep admins are corrupt, but I'm not going to bother proving it. If you want the full spiel send me a private message and I'll prove it in a more dragged out debate" in a place where a bunch of people are already sick of hearing about SteamRep. Afraid someone will start poking holes in it?

 

And why don't I bother to reply? I was at work when you posted it. By Reddit's design, the very first people to post are the ones who get noticed. Posting there will not do any good because nobody will see it because all my comments will be at the bottom, and 1 or 2 downvotes from you, friends, or a couple marked scammers, is enough to ensure nobody sees it at all. If we dropped what we were doing to try and quickly reply and all upvote eachothers replies for visibility, then you'd just re-post the same thread again in another day/week with the same points, maybe even deleting the original thread like some marked scammers have done, and anyone looking in the new one wouldn't see our replies unless we continued to "keep up". Reddit is NOT a good platform to have a fair debate or discussion, but it's a GREAT place to rile people up into mobs or smear someone or something with propaganda in a way that's difficult or impractical to defend against, which is exactly what you're using it for.

 

The truth is that SteamRep has a lot of different issues, and me highlighting and giving evidence about many different issues with SteamRep isn't on me, it's on SteamRep.

Having issues is not the same as being corrupt. For example, having a report backlog means that more people are submitting reports than SteamRep can handle, not that admins are conspiring to not answer your specific report because they're out to get you. In the matter of FoG, you were told multiple times to appeal with them. Community tags are issued by specific admins, not SteamRep admins. Nobody from SteamRep made the decision to tag you, despite whatever quote about "consulting with SteamRep" you're taking out of context. Every so often, a partner admin sends a SteamRep admin, chosen more or less at random, for a procedural or policy clarification, before issuing a tag. I wasn't involved in your case, but from what I gather on your case, whichever admin they asked replied something to the extent of "partner admins have discretion to apply a full caution or banned tag if they have evidence and reason to believe someone is lying or knowingly trading with scammers". It looks like that story you gave about SteamRep being offline and you being unable to check if the guy you added 24 hours prior to when you said you couldn't check, and then threw up your arms declaring "not my responsibility if their website doesn't load, not going to bother checking any of the other trading websites I can see his ban on" didn't check out too well, and they felt this was more planned and you were lying. The partner community used their discretion under these extenuating circumstances to skip the warning/caution steps. Do I agree with it? Personally I wouldn't have given more than a caution, but lots of admins disagree with decisions made by other admins; by policy we don't go around overturning eachothers' decisions, especially those of partner communities. I'm a SteamRep admin and outside of limited circumstances which you never met (like appealing to FoG first then presenting an unfair or mishandled appeal), it's not within my authority to overturn their decision. For all your outcry about policies and procedures, you sure fought the standard appeals process kicking and screaming - you insisted and refused to appeal with FoG, but demanded a SteamRep admin give you special treatment and grant your appeal themselves when our policy is to have the tagging community (who has the evidence) take responsibility for a tag, without even speaking with FoG or giving them a chance to handle your appeal first. No corruption there, just standard practices, and someone demanding to have exceptions made, which were declined.

 

SOP as you said in your own words shouldn't be trusted.

I said no such thing. Stop misquoting me.

TF2-T has disappeared, SOP as you said in your own words shouldn't be trusted. This is the point I have raised here, it's very logical. To ensure your rep remains live it's best to manage it yourself and not to trust a 3rd party that could fold or delete your rep at any time.

 

Facts in relations to this discussion.

 

- 3rd Party websites can delete your rep without your say

- 3rd party websites have deleted users rep without their say

- 3rd party websites have folded without notice

- Leaving your rep and managing your own rep is the only way to safe guard it

 

Simple evident facts, feel free to present your own when discussing safe guarding your own rep.

If your primary concern is losing your reputation thread, like some kind of hard-earned entitlement, then it's best to diversify it and host multiple threads spread across multiple sites, so you don't lose everything when one site shuts down or bans you. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you had your reputation split between MCT, Bazaar, SOP, TF2-T, Backpack.tf, FoG, and whoever else hosts reputation threads, it would've gone away piece by piece as sites banned you or shut down, leaving you a chance to recover. I know this isn't what you're looking to hear, but the point of reputation threads isn't to "safe guard" them making sure they never go away (if it were, you could just take screenshots of them), but to have something essentially endorsed and vetted by a trusted third party. If someone gave you a screenshot of a Mann Co Trading or TF2-Trader reputation thread, would you trust that? Scammers have been known to doctor their own Steam ID into those screenshots, in addition to posting fake "+rep bought X keys with PayPal, went first, no problems". Hell, one fakerep case I dealt with was a SteamWorks developer who sought out scammers to vouch for in profile comments "as a SteamWorks developer" in return for $20 each. If he tried that on a moderated reputation website, he'd have gotten tagged.

 

Lets not drag this is the mud, my statement was clear and that the best way to safe guard rep is to request it to be left on your profile. Can you argue that this is not the safest place for someone to request rep with the aim of safe guarding their rep? I made it clear earlier that I am not stating best practices, this is something else and imo the best practices still involve leaving Rep on your profile.

 

On another note, I've caught you out lying and misquoting me many times and you've done so again here.

 

This is what I said,

 

"Yeah that's a shame, I think at this point it's best to be leaving rep on your profile as well or if possible on the steam forums. SOP ban users pretty easily so having rep there is a risk and any 3rd party website (tf2-t as an example) can fold at any time."

 

Where you are saying "you're actually advocating people do away with 3rd-party hosted reputation threads altogether, and trusting profile comments, as seen here:" you quoted this to justify this statement "What I am saying here is that users shouldn't feel safe in having their rep hosted on SOP" wow, like you even said it yourself that people shouldn't be trusting SOP to be hosting their rep due to their past but then you use my statement which mirrors what you have already said in attempts to disprove me. It's also not even related to safe guarding rep which is what I have been highlighting.

Did you even read this? I said "Which contrary to your point above, *quote you acknowledged* you're actually advocating people do away with 3rd-party hosted reputation threads altogether, and trusting profile comments, as seen here: *other quotes collapsed in a spoiler tag*". See that spoiler button? You click it, and see more quotes. I quoted you advocating the use of profile comments in 3 different places, but because it made this post excessively long I collapsed it into a spoiler as a courtesy to anyone else reading and scrolling through this derailed mess. I didn't "justify" my claim with the first quote saying "users shouldn't feel safe having their rep hosted on SOP". Quit accusing me of lying because you have selective reading comprehension.

 

Sure feel free to try a BigMac187 and present facts, this is what I have done.

Ok, just remember you specifically asked for it when you turn around saying I'm trying to discredit you. Let's see how this works BigMac187-style...

 

Fact: BigMac187's first Reddit account was shadow banned for stalking and harassing Mattie's u/thorax account.

Fact: BigMac187 was banned from SteamRep forums multiple times, after multiple warnings, for harassing staff members, hijacking threads to push his talking points, and spamming excessive threads of his own, after multiple warnings. BigMac187 then uses this/these temporary ban(s) - which is NOT the same as a scammer tag - as "evidence" of corruption.

Fact: BigMac187 was banned from SourceOP, like many other traders, on a community that prides itself on strict enforcement of rules, for trading with a marked scammer, but he continues to insist it was for "personal reasons" because that sounds more sinister.

Fact: BigMac187 was also permanently banned from TF2 Outpost for the same reason, because Sneeza came to the same conclusion as the SOP admins and apparently the partner community who tagged him.

Fact: BigMac187 routinely spams the non-trading r/tf2 subreddit instead of a trading subreddit with anti-SteamRep propaganda, where readers are more susceptible to misinformation about a topic they aren't familiar with, and where marked scammers can freely post their own distorted anecdotes or lies anonymously.

Fact: BigMac187 is still upset about SteamRep's refusal to give him special treatment over the FoG tag, and has since developed an unhealthy obsession with destroying SteamRep's public image or shutting the website down in revenge, under the guise of "raising awareness about corruption".

Fact: SourceOP and SteamRep are 2 different communities, with different sets of rules, but BigMac187 continues to use YATO (or whoever actually banned him), acting within SourceOP's strict policies, as an example of "admin abuse on SteamRep" by association, despite SourceOP never issuing a "BANNED BY SOP" tag.

Are you able to dispute any of those facts? Answer YES or NO to each of them, or else you're trying to distract the general public from these FACTS because they put you in a negative light.

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SNIP

 

Obviously a lot to reply to.

 

Firstly regarding the Reddit thread, it's cute how you blame the Reddit style for not responding. I've had threads slammed before, Reddit isn't as biased as you think. If someone has the opportunity to slam a thread they will but when it's come to calling out SR corrupt there's no1 coming to your defense. Why is that?

 

If you raise a good point they will listen but truth be told you can't argue it. You know I was banned out of process, the ok to ban me out of process was given by SR all whilst knowing that the process in which I was being banned for was causing innocent people to get banned. SR knew about this issue but told FoG ban him anyways. Clear cut evidence below btw.

 

Have a look at what your previous process did, it removed many innocent and respected traders from the community, there was clear evidence and community concern on reddit and other forums but SR ignored it for a very long time and continued to allow people to be labeled as a scammer.

 

Ask yourself and do some research on how this all started, from my understanding it started when the Burning Team Captain got duped. Your head admin wanted to protect his interests (owns a burning team captain) and then a rule was introduced that would ban anyone that trades for a Burning Team Captain. This introduced the stupid logic that you can be called a scammer when you have not in fact scammed and the stupidity of this logic evolved into a situation where if you did enough digging on someone you could get them banned. This ruleset was born out of corruption. 

 

Now myself and many of my innocent and legit trader friends were highly affected by what started out by self interest. SR had involved itself in controlling the trader market where it had no right to, your service should only ever be optional and having it forced is illegal.

 

Regarding the Reddit thread these are all fact and highlight the corruption. Evidence below.

 

- I made noise on SR about your shitty processes (YATO linked in evidence above)

 

- Many of SR admins were in on that and were obviously disgruntled (YATO linked in evidence above)

 

- My Rep was deleted by a SteamRep admin (YATO) due to this thread (YATO linked in evidence above)

 

- I was banned out of process (SR was down, it was a first offense) Rules stated for a first offense it must be evident (http://forums.f-o-g.eu/threads/6337-76561198025506314-biigmacineedadoublecheesebuerger.html) this was my ban reasoning, no evidence provided on knowingly or for profile

 

- FoG has asked SteamRep about my case and SR gave them the ok - http://forums.f-o-g.eu/threads/6775-steamrep-tag-removal-downgrade-ban-appeal-biigmacineedadoublecheesebuerger.html#post62220- Ninja Taco (and before doing so we spoke to SR admins for their opinion.)

 

- SteamRep had known and have been discussing this new rule change for 1 year and were aware of the issues that innocent people were being innocently marked due to process flaws and when were approached by FoG about my case they gave them the ok to ban me. Clear case of corruption, not only did a SteamRep admin delete my rep due to questioning process (yes on SOP) but he is a SteamRep admin. But they also had me banned out of process out of spite.

 

Yes I was shadowbanned for pming mattie - It was his shitty processes that had harmed me and many other innocent people so I wanted to let him know

Yes I was banned on Outpost for calling out their own corruption (was perm banned due to the trade - helen looked at it and said it was a joke and unbanned me - i gave the person Sirploko some shit for banning me out of process)

Yes I was banned from SOP, that was due to me having a report against me on SteamRep, not a tag but a report

Yes I voice my opinion and state facts and call out SR on their corrupt ways and shitty processes

No I'm not still mad about SR not listening to clear evidence about how I was banned out of process, what ever really, this just points more to the corrupt ways

Yes SteamRep and SOP are two different communities but what SOP and YOTO do also reflects on SteamRep. Fact is a SteamRep admin has no issues in deleting someones rep

 

So you have evidence of me being vocal, good for you. I could have told you that I'm a vocal person and call out shit and in doing so I've copped a couple bans on the way. I would have to think that being corrupt is a lot more concerning than being vocal. How about you focus on the more serious matters and not continue to try discredit an innocent trader (who has reason to be calling out your practices). You admit to SteamRep having many issues but for some reason you think you should be immune to criticism and when someone is highlighting concerns you instead look to discredit them as you've aimed to do here once again.

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Oh, my gosh. Stop, please. Add each other on steam or PM each other on SR or here. But none of this really has anything to do with what happened to TF2-T.

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