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How would you nerf the flog?


Q22

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Ik everyone is complaining about how OP the phlog (which it is) but lets put our heads together and figure about how to nerf this thing

 

I'm just going to poop out a idea

-not ubered while taunting

-maybe + 20% damage taken while taunting?

That'll stop the running into a crowd and killing everyone (maybe)

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I stand by what I've said before in that the Phlog is fine after the Tough Break.

However, if I was put in a position where I had to change some stats I would make it so you are not invincible while taunting and perhaps lower the base ammo or increase ammo consumption overall to make the Phlog more of an ambush weapon.

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Phlog is nowhere near OP, what degreaser-toting salty idiot person says that?

 

Pyro is good at two things: airblasting, and ambush combat. The phlog completely removes 1/2 of what a pyro can do, and doesn't actually improve the other 1/2 as much as you might think.

 

The lack of airblast basically removes pyro's defense against soldiers and demos, on top of his/her/its existing vulnerability to bullets, so it's a bit harder to survive. So now phlog pyro is weak to every class that uses projectiles or bullets. Which is, y'know, all of them. Even other pyros with shotguns.

 

Seriously. You have four? Five? Whole seconds to panic, stop panicking, place two stickies (three to be sure) at the pyro's feet, and M2 as soon as he's done taunting. Or line up the crosshairs and feed him a pair of rockets, and it's gg. Jump backwards and rev up Sasha, and he comes out of taunt into a hail of lead. Every class has an easy answer to phlog crits unless you get trapped in close quarters, which is, y'know, where any pyro will roast you, phlog or not.

 

Plus, the invuln while taunting is not that great--sure, you can no longer be backstabbed, but quickly finding a corner would pretty much prevent that anyway. Also, you can no longer take damage which cancels the taunt and gives longer crits--so in that sense, giving invuln is almost a sidegrade, rather than a straight upgrade. Regardless, being immobile for several seconds while in or close to combat is NOT a good strategy for staying alive.

 

The only people crying about the phlog being OP are either pyro mains who are mad to see something besides the degreaser be viable, or people who are too bad/dumb to kill an airblast-less pyro. If you're that scout that runs around corners with your Fan-o-War out, sure, you'll die to phlog pyros 8 times out of 8. But what will you not die to 8 out of 8?

 

Phlog is not OP, leave it alone. >:(

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I would nerf it like dead ringer, valve why!?!? [Not similiar to it, would nerf it BAD as dead ringer]

-Mini-crits instead of 100% crits

-Take 10% more damage while taunting for crits

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dixl7r9.png

 

 

 

 

i love the grumpy eyebrows, best part.

 

i find that not shooting at the shiny person, and waiting until the shiny ends, while out of their range is also a good trick.

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+10% damage buff

+10% damage taken from all sources

-only primary weapon damage counts towards mmmph

 

-50% ammo

-Refills health and ammo on mmmph, no uber

 

This would make it fill a much more niche role, as many of the tf2 weapons do. This particular one being "Walk at people from around corners", because thats pretty much the only thing this weapon is good for anyways.

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letter_s.png

Are people honestly that incapable of pressing this key and shooting once the taunt ends? It's already hard enough to pull off something worthwhile with the phlog and it isn't broken in it's current state. What's the worse than can happen in a  real game with the phlog? It breaks a stalemate because a team is pushed out of position by the phlog pyro taunt?

 

Oh wait that's a good thing, 10 minute stalemates are shit.

 

Yes a phlog pyro will fuck you up in close range but who's fault is it that the slow moving pyro can get close enough to you? You can easily deny the phlog pyro, even without a amazing team.

 

How you can deny a phlog pyro solo:

 

* Snipe him.

* Sticky trap at his feet.

* Spam rockets around him until dead, move away while spamming.

* Kite as scout.

* Airblast away as pyro and retreat until crits are over.

* Bait into your sentry gun or hide behind it's cover.

 

If you can't do any of these run. It's not exactly complicated. The only classes that can literally do nothing against a phlog pyro is medic and spy, and these should be dead anyway if a pyro is close enough to attack them.

 

It doesn't need nerfing, you just need to slightly adjust your playstyle.

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Ik everyone is complaining about how OP the phlog (which it is) but lets put our heads together and figure about how to nerf this thing

 

I'm just going to poop out a idea

-not ubered while taunting

-maybe + 20% damage taken while taunting?

That'll stop the running into a crowd and killing everyone (maybe)

It's not OP lol adding 20% damage taken while taunting to it will KILL the weapon. Before the update it was already bad enough with all the sticky traps and beggar rocket spam at pyros while they are taunting and you wanna add 20% dmg to that? they'll die before they're done taunting.
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*ahem*

 

Phlog's not OP

Don't get near a Pyro if you see electricity around his brightly sparkling gun

Don't get near a Pyro at all, really

Seriously, If you hate getting killed by one, don't get near one

Talking to you Medic and Spy mains who complain that your melees do nothing against a Pyro

 

Sincerely - Phlog Main since July 2014

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*ahem*

 

Phlog's not OP etc

I still don't use the phlog if I see anyone on the other team with skill or brains. It just feels like an idiot-control device

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As a former pyro main myself (and I speak on behalf of a former phlog pyro main) we both agreed that the Phlog was made OP. 

My friend was a phlog main and learnt it that way since he started tf2 so he doesnt even fully understand the timing or use of an airblast.

As for myself I was a Backburner Pyro so you have the larger cost of the airblast so I took to barely ever using it.

So both my friend and I have learnt to pyro main without the use of airblast. It isnt that hard to dodge a rocket unless at extremely close range.

Besides that however you now have the medic building ubercharge for everything he does (This is a great thing and shouldnt change) HOWEVER, couple it with the Phlog and its unstoppable. No more Pocket Medics for a heavy because lets face it the pyro is faster and you can cover more ground with an ubercharge w+m1 followed by mmmph activation.

 

2 classes that could kill the Pyro after it ubers are Soldier and Demo.

Both of which have a base speed less than that of the Pyro so your "Turn around and run" trick wont work very well (unless your have charge for your demo then you might get lucky)

 

It should also be noted that because the pyro is taunting during this activation, he can see a full 360 and take note of all enemies in the immediate vicinity only to pick to nearest or most threatening and charge for them.

 

Increase damage taken whilst phlog is active or decrease speed like you do with the heavies brass beast. Another option would be to decrease the range of the phlog (since trail off no longer affects a pyro's damage anymore)

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>turn and run posed as a viable counter to a free crit weapon when pyro is faster than heavy demo and soldier, i.e. main damage dealing classes.

 

this is why valve pull this shite, because of people who suggest that the correct counterplay is to let the pyro clear out the entire distance he can cover in 8 seconds for fucking free. there is literally no counter as any class if you turn a corner and see a phlog pyro with his crits up. it's stupid, brainless and plays no sensible role in the meta.

 

it was annoying before because it's kinda unjustifiable to have any class with that movement speed and damage output in a competitive game, especially when combined with a quick fix or something. i would honestly rework it entirely. mmph could be increased movement speed instead of free full health and crits, and that would be so much less painful. give it a costly airblast too so it has a higher skill ceiling.

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i would also like to mention that I've successfully boned over pyros using their crits taunt by doing the following

 

placing stickies at their feet

popping them up with a rocket at mid range, and then finishing them with a second

ubersaw taunt kill

charging a headshot at range

 

 

there are more options besides running at an invincible crit noob and complaining about how you died like a fool.

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