Backpack.tf Escrow Trust/Reputation?

[Zapperzz]

Since we currently have Backpack.tf Trust, which has become one of the more popular forms of Cash trading Rep for traders recently... why not have Escrow Rep too?

 

When items are in Escrow, either user can charge back the transaction.  This is intended for safety, but obviously can very easily be abused by reclaiming items from escrow to reverse a friendly trade after having second thoughts.  It could be suggested, that we should mix the current Trust ratings with the Escrow Rep.  However, that's problematic because negative Rep in Trust could mean being a scammer, while negative Rep in Escrow could just mean the user is not the most trustworthy at sticking to deals. 

 

Some people might argue Escrow Rep is a bad idea because, "What if the guy actually did, almost get scammed?"  Well, #1: After he gets his items back he should still want to perform the trade with you.  Presumably you would only leave negative rep if he removed you afterwards or said, "Sorry sorry, I don't want the deal anymore".  #2: It's an event that happened to him due to mis-caution in security.  It risked his trade reliability and that shouldn't be excusable for too many different ways.  Since it shouldn't happen again (if it was actually the case that he was almost scammed), it's okay to take one small negative rating.  His overall Escrow Rep wouldn’t be effected much amongst the other presumably positive ratings

 

This whole system would be very similar to Auction Rep on bazaar.tf.  Let me know if you have any tweaks you would make to the system, or opinions on it as a whole.  To be clear, Escrow Rep wouldn’t effect your state in trading like a SR mark or Outpost/Bp.tf ban.  It would only effect whether someone would take caution while initiating trades with you or not.

[Lmf]

remove escrow

[♠Derpeh♤]

Imo shouldnt happen at all. I can imagine all the people leaving negative reps for people who change their mind already :S

[knavesmith]

I'm just going to copy-paste my reply to you in that other thread.

 

Leave a -rep on his backpack.tf profile. I was thinking that the second escrow was added bp.tf would make an escrow rep for people on their profile. Where people could build negative and positive rep for trades involving escrow. Since they didn't, I would just recommend using the current rep system and leave him a negative trust.

 

Actually I forgot to put this in website suggestions, I'm going to do that now.

 

Invalid reason for -rep.

 

Saying you will buy something isn't a signature on a legal document. A trader is not obliged to complete a trade they have previously agreed on. Sure it's morally wrong, but you're not going to get in trouble for backing out of a trade.

 

It's practically the same thing as agreeing to a trade while some items are currently untradable. If I offer 20 Keys for your Unusual but I have to wait 3 more days for them to become tradable, I can still change my mind about the offer before the keys become tradable. Same thing with escrow. If you accepted an offer of mine for 20 Keys and the trade is on hold, I could still change my mind about the deal and cancel the trade. The only punishment I'd receive is a week trade ban, but that's due to the nature of escrow, not the idea of backing out on a trade.

 

It's the same thing as someone clicking the "cancel trade offer" button in the former confirmation emails after you both discuss the trade and make a deal

 

Also an example of such an act of backing out. Escrow is not special.

 

 

Besides, it's not like you're getting scammed out of your items or anything. If you're so concerned about losing precious time, considering enabling SMA yourself or trading with only escrow-free traders. Spend your time wisely, not dangerously.

[Carnage]

Going through with the deal even with escrow is still considered a normal trade. Even if the person cancels you don't lose anything monetarily, yea you could argue that you'd have sold it to someone else by then. It isn't the same as PayPal trading though.

 

As I was told, negative trust ratings for canceling held trades are valid for around a month (unless proof of the agreement not to cancel was given) as a warning for others. If they cancel a lot I'd want to know. If no more occur then it's removed, I don't think it should stick with them if it was only a one time thing. 

 

You should look at any trust ratings before making a decision on if the user is trustworthy or not, invalid trusts are made all the time.

[Zapperzz]

I edited my main post a little bit.  I wasn't intending a negative Escrow Rep to be equivalent to something as bad as a negative Trust rating.  Also even the most frequent abuser of Escrow's trade back feature would probably have as much or more positive ratings as negative ratings.  Since not EVERY transaction said person would be "charging back".  These could be left almost as frequently as +rep's on steam profiles are left.  The majority of those being positive too.  Being able to see if a person had done a trade back recently or done quite a few in the past, would be a good tool for people thinking about doing a very high value deal with someone.  Maybe the Escrow Rep could be off to the side of a users backpack.tf profile, or maybe on their backpack page rather than their main page.  Just so it wouldn't be confused with backpack.tf Trust and lead people to believe that they're some kind of scammer. 

 

Invalid reason for -rep.

Saying you will buy something isn't a signature on a legal document. A trader is not obliged to complete a trade they have previously agreed on. Sure it's morally wrong, but you're not going to get in trouble for backing out of a trade.

It's practically the same thing as agreeing to a trade while some items are currently untradable. If I offer 20 Keys for your Unusual but I have to wait 3 more days for them to become tradable, I can still change my mind about the offer before the keys become tradable. Same thing with escrow. If you accepted an offer of mine for 20 Keys and the trade is on hold, I could still change my mind about the deal and cancel the trade. The only punishment I'd receive is a week trade ban, but that's due to the nature of escrow, not the idea of backing out on a trade.

 

Also an example of such an act of backing out. Escrow is not special.
Besides, it's not like you're getting scammed out of your items or anything. If you're so concerned about losing precious time, considering enabling SMA yourself or trading with only escrow-free traders. Spend your time wisely, not dangerously. 

 

 

I see you're right that it would be an invalid reason for a negative rating in bp.tf Trust.  I was wrong about that at first and that's why I proposed this be separate from bp.tf Trust.  

 

I don't think that a trade back is comparable to deciding someone doesn't want to do the trade while their keys are tradable.  Once you do a full trade on steam it should definitely be a set deal.  Accepting an offer that you get on outpost can be pretty vague.  However when you invite someone to trade on steam and confirm the trade twice in the trade window, then once on mobile authenticator / email (if you're using that)... it seems pretty distinguishable from a vague worded agreement.  

 

Escrow is sometimes the only option for some people when trading.  When steam implemented Escrow they weren't trying to make it so regular trades were something that could be more commonly backed out of.  They were just trying to (badly) implement a security feature.  That shouldn't forcefully change the way that trade and accept deals.

 

 

Going through with the deal even with escrow is still considered a normal trade. Even if the person cancels you don't lose anything monetarily, yea you could argue that you'd have sold it to someone else by then. It isn't the same as PayPal trading though.

 

As I was told, negative trust ratings for canceling held trades are valid for around a month (unless proof of the agreement not to cancel was given) as a warning for others. If they cancel a lot I'd want to know. If no more occur then it's removed, I don't think it should stick with them if it was only a one time thing. 

 

You should look at any trust ratings before making a decision on if the user is trustworthy or not, invalid trusts are made all the time.

 

Good points, I can see now why some people may not want this feature implemented.  To clear any confusion, as I said above in this post I wasn't wanting Escrow Rep to endanger someone's normal rep that is used for cash trade.  Your last line is what makes me think Escrow Rep would be a good idea, though.  Some rep to distinguish if you want to enter an escrow type trade with X user.  

[Apo]

I'm just going to copy-paste my reply to you in that other thread.

 

 

Invalid reason for -rep.

 

Saying you will buy something isn't a signature on a legal document. A trader is not obliged to complete a trade they have previously agreed on. Sure it's morally wrong, but you're not going to get in trouble for backing out of a trade.

 

It's practically the same thing as agreeing to a trade while some items are currently untradable. If I offer 20 Keys for your Unusual but I have to wait 3 more days for them to become tradable, I can still change my mind about the offer before the keys become tradable. Same thing with escrow. If you accepted an offer of mine for 20 Keys and the trade is on hold, I could still change my mind about the deal and cancel the trade. The only punishment I'd receive is a week trade ban, but that's due to the nature of escrow, not the idea of backing out on a trade.

 

 

Also an example of such an act of backing out. Escrow is not special.

 

 

Besides, it's not like you're getting scammed out of your items or anything. If you're so concerned about losing precious time, considering enabling SMA yourself or trading with only escrow-free traders. Spend your time wisely, not dangerously.

[LaughingLollipop]

unless you literally got scammed by someone, the negative rep is just removed as invalid

 

rep is, will be and has always been a joke