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what's the reason for capping the multiplier at 5x


rafiozol

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old thread: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1449-why-is-the-multiplier-limited-to-5x/

 

i really doubt anyone who makes troll suggestion has more than 1250 points that are required to get 5x+ multiplier

majority of troll suggesters have negative, no or very little amount of points

 

increasing the multiplier to let's say 10x will allow those less rich suggesters able to price more expensive items with no noticeable difference to actual suggesting and other suggestors

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Posted · Hidden by A Delicious Cashew, December 6, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by A Delicious Cashew, December 6, 2015 - No reason given

6 is an unlucky # when put next to 2 other 6s

 

EDIT: This was just in GA 2 seconss ago woops

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tfw angel deletes my post

 

cus there is no need?

 

There's every need.

A couple of god-tiers suggestions have been made recently that are heavily flawed.

As a good but poor suggester I can see the flaws in these suggestions but also can't point them out without adding the suggester, which is a pain.

 

I feel like the voting cap should just be removed after 100 accepted suggestions or something. At that point you clearly know what you're doing.

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There's every need.

A couple of god-tiers suggestions have been made recently that are heavily flawed.

As a good but poor suggester I can see the flaws in these suggestions but also can't point them out without adding the suggester, which is a pain.

 

I feel like the voting cap should just be removed after 100 accepted suggestions or something. At that point you clearly know what you're doing.

I meant to go further, So that you can't just put alot of expensive items on an alt and upvote your own suggestions. Yes they should removed the cap after you reach a certain # of accepted suggs, Tanner was a blue belt but only had a hundred ref backpack.
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Paraphrasing from one of the previous 50 times this has been answered:

 

Because you really only have knowledge of high tier unusuals if you have experience with them

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Can be a good idea

why not adding x1 multiplier for 0 suggestions accepted x2 for 2 accepted x3 for 3 accepted etc....

 

but its useless for me :P

 

DX2RAoF.png

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Paraphrasing from one of the previous 50 times this has been answered:

 

Because you really only have knowledge of high tier unusuals if you have experience with them

 

Uhm, no?

 

That isn't true. I'll happily prove for you that isn't true.

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Uhm, no?

 

That isn't true. I'll happily prove for you that isn't true.

 

When you have not interacted with high tier unusuals yet make suggestions on them, the way you do it and the mindset you are in would be different if you had mangled with unusuals of similar value. The experience of trading high tier unusuals is difference from the knowledge in how it all works. Usually someone who does not have experience with the unusuals will not know as much as people who do, as you relate less to the trades that are occurring.

 

I no longer trade unusuals and the amount that changes as time goes is alot, it is alot easier understanding everything if you are current and active in unusual trading.

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I've personally done suggestions like pricing the gold pan and stuff a long time ago, but until the buds fall, my backpack fell as well, leading to the fact that I could not suggest anything higher than 1000 keys.

Not saying that it bothers me in suggesting, since I don't really suggest, but I can't comment on those high unusual suggestions in the backlogs. :(

 

what pudding said

when I had like 800 suggestions accepted I still only had a backpack worth (at best) 30 ref

If you can stop unboxing... ;)

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Paraphrasing from one of the previous 50 times this has been answered:

 

Because you really only have knowledge of high tier unusuals if you have experience with them

 

What, i've never traded in the unusual market except for only twice, I've never sold or haggled an unusual higher than 40 keys in value, and I price things like Burning Fortunate, Burning Modest, Thine Vive, C9 Hunter Heavy, just recently did the Beams Russian, AF Goggles, Burning Private, Phantasm Kiss King, Glory Kiss King, DaD Kiss King, Frostbite Kiss King, Stormy Antlers

 

I've legitimately tried to be away from the unusual market as much as possible, an yet, I still price god tiers

 

The only trading with unusuals I've ever done was selling a P. Fetti Hard Counter for 9 keys and a Scorching Dixie for 32 (Both were duped), everything else I just bought an unusual to keep, and gave absolutely no second opinion on the prices of them - almost always i was willing to pay it

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There is a difference between the ability to price an item based on its sales and the ability to look at an item's value and immediately have an idea of what it should be worth. The latter only comes with experience in trading.

 

Using a recent disagreement between Gent and I as an example (no flame, just an example). Gent believed that overpay should be applied here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/565893e8dea9e96b617f7bcf, and I'm sure any suggester normally would apply overpay here. But if so, the item would have been undervalued. The ability to realize that only comes with trading experience. 

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Not mentioned here, but public image is also a small concern. How would you feel if I told you that people with less than a dozen keys in their backpacks are allowed to price your 1000 keys unusual? How credible would you still find this site? Probably not too much.

 

I have witness this myself. I once heard someone complain that "backpack.tf is run by a bunch of bronies with like 50 keys backpacks and they're allowed to price god tier unusuals." I wasn't too happy, but then I realized that to a small extend, this is true. 

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There is a difference between the ability to price an item based on its sales and the ability to look at an item's value and immediately have an idea of what it should be worth. The latter only comes with experience in trading.

 

Using a recent disagreement between Gent and I as an example (no flame, just an example). Gent believed that overpay should be applied here http://backpack.tf/vote/id/565893e8dea9e96b617f7bcf, and I'm sure any suggester normally would apply overpay here. But if so, the item would have been undervalued. The ability to realize that only comes with trading experience. 

 

And then you were required to apply overpay. And as Wolfi said on your prior suggestion, applying overpay in the first instance was the correct thing to do.

Well done in excellently and succinctly counter-proofing your own argument. This is a joke, right?

 

Not mentioned here, but public image is also a small concern. How would you feel if I told you that people with less than a dozen keys in their backpacks are allowed to price your 1000 keys unusual? How credible would you still find this site? Probably not too much.

 

I have witness this myself. I once heard someone complain that "backpack.tf is run by a bunch of bronies with like 50 keys backpacks and they're allowed to price god tier unusuals." I wasn't too happy, but then I realized that to a small extend, this is true. 

 

I'm the most experienced active suggester. I also have a relatively low backpack value. Backpack value has no. bearing on ability to suggest. None.

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And then you were required to apply overpay. And as Wolfi said, applying overpay in the first instance was the correct thing to do.

Well done in excellently counter-proofing your own argument.

 

I applied overpay because if I didn't, the item would have been overvalued. If I did not have the experience in trading, I would have had no idea whether it was undervalued or overvalued.

 

 

I'm the most experienced active suggester. I also have a relatively low backpack value. Backpack value has no. bearing on ability to suggest. None.

 

You thought 105 keys for that Tiger Skullcracker was more accurate than 120. :P I've also asked Julia about this as she's also quite experienced with selling unusual taunts, and she too agreed that 120 is more accurate.

 

------

 

Again, not trying to flame, just using this as an example. A high tiered trader go through hundreds, if not thousands, of unusuals in their trading career. That sense of value of items is impossible to acquire by just doing price suggestions. 

 

Here, I should clarify something. Can someone with a very low backpack value or little trading knowledge be a good price suggester? Of course. However, in order to become a great suggester, one needs some experience in trading, especially when god tiers are involved. The balance between the two is crucial, which is what the experience points trying to archive. 

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I applied overpay because if I didn't, the item would have been overvalued. If I did not have the experience in trading, I would have had no idea whether it was undervalued or overvalued.

 

Opinions have no place in suggestions. This is irrelevant.

 

You thought 105 keys for that Tiger Skullcracker was more accurate than 120. :P I've also asked Julia about this as she's also quite experienced with selling unusual taunts, and she too agreed that 120 is more accurate.

 

These are, again, opinions. Opinion have no place in a suggestion. Your suggestion at 120 would have failed because you did not follow the suggestion rules. Again, you are providing excellent evidence why suggesting experience is more important that trading experience when it comes to making suggestions.

 

------

 

Again, not trying to flame, just using this as an example. A high tiered trader go through hundreds, if not thousands, of unusuals in their trading career. That sense of value of items is impossible to acquire by just doing price suggestions. 

 

Also completely irrelevant. You're making a case for opinions having a place in suggestions, which flies in the face of good suggestion protocol.

 

Here, I should clarify something. Can someone with a very low backpack value or little trading knowledge be a good price suggester? Of course. However, in order to become a great suggester, one needs some experience in trading, especially when god tiers are involved. The balance between the two is crucial, which is what the experience points trying to archive.

 

So you're saying the empirically best active suggester is not a great suggester. Ouch.  Not to be egotistical (hah!) but I'm all the evidence you need this argument is junk.

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Snip

 

 

what you're describing here as 'opinions' might be more accurately called 'estimations', and they definitely do have a place in suggestions because it helps guide a suggester in terms of outliers etc. polar has talked before about moderators needing to be able to look at an suggestion and have a pretty good sense of whether it's right or wrong, based on their experience and estimation.

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Just found this thread, I would partially agree with both sides. Personally, my backpack has never risen above $160 in value, yet, in all modesty, I feel as though I have a better handle on suggesting than many who try and have a net worth 50x mine. If there's some indescribable knowledge that stems from actually doing high-tier trading, I wouldn't know or understand. For the suggestions themselves, hypothetically and realistically, would there be that huge of a problem if less-wealthy people suggested better than the rich, and as such, could price their hats? Experience doesn't necessarily go one-way through participation, can it not come from observation over time as well?

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