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I fucked up. Need help fast.


TheVirtualEconomist

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So It looks like I am going to be Paypal charge backed.

 

Ill let that sink in.

 

So heres my experience, and I admit it is 100% my fault. Do not waste either of our time by commenting below with comments like "you should have known better" "why would you continue with the trade?" If you wish to insult me, leave. I am making this trade to see if there is anything I can do to prevent this chargeback before it occurs. Please comment below what I should do to prevent this chargeback.

 

 

Heres what happened. This guy adds me, wishing to buy 100 keys from me via PayPal, as he found me off tf2 outpost. Here is the trade conversation: http://imgur.com/a/EgBbc. also attached paypal and steam screenies. Seriously, if you need more screenshots, I got them.

 

He had a steam level of 37, and appeared to be buying keys to sell on the scm and then buy games. He had a HUGE amount of games with decent playtimes, and a HUGE amount of market transactions. He also had a HUGE amount of +rep on his steam profile( This of course isnt real rep) What he did lack was items in his backpack and real rep. Because of this, he agreed to go first.

 

 

It all worked out smoothly until it appeared that he wanted to buy another 100 keys. Alarm bells are starting to appear, but I am rushed for time, and figure, why not, Ill be selling them to someone else anyway, this makes it easier for me to cash out. I should not have been in any rush at all, that should have been the first rule to cash trading. We do the second set, and suddenly I get payment for 100 more keys. I quickly refund this, feeling more and more suspicious. He attempts to convince me to sell him more keys, and I say no. By now I am freaked out, but there is nothing I can do. I ask him to leave me rep and I leave, as I have a life to go attend to. When I come back, I see he has left me no rep, so I view his backpack.tf profile. No keys. So I check the history of one of my keys. 

 

http://backpack.tf/item/4281144548

 

holy shit

 

I've been scammed.

 

I still have the money in my PayPal account, but at any time, It will likley be chargebacked. Heres the kicker. I dont think I can even refuted this. My PayPal isnt verified, and my PayPal account seriously looks like a scammer's account I swear. When I check back, I see that the payment was not even a gift.

 

Again, I am making this trade to see if there is anything I can do to prevent this chargeback before it occurs. Please comment below what I should do to prevent this chargeback.

 

Thanks, Bob

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There's obviously nothing you can do until he actually reverses the charge. 

Of cource, but can I contact paypal and make them aware of this? If I spend any of the money, will it prevent a chargeback by having no funds to return?

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Posted · Hidden by polar, November 23, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, November 23, 2015 - No reason given

Of cource, but can I contact paypal and make them aware of this? If I spend any of the money, will it prevent a chargeback by having no funds to return?

you could spend it all and close the paypal account? idk lol

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There's obviously nothing you can do until he actually reverses the charge. 

Right. One time I sold an unusual to someone who then got reported by a f***ton of people, a matter of hours later, for chargebacks. He never charged me back, though.

 

When I check back, I see that the payment was not even a gift.

 

Sending payments as gifts is just to get around the fees; I don't think that'll make things any more difficult for you if he does charge it back.

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Of cource, but can I contact paypal and make them aware of this? If I spend any of the money, will it prevent a chargeback by having no funds to return?

IIRC, you can dispute a claim about a chargeback and the money will go back to you, someone here has done it before. 

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If I spend any of the money, will it prevent a chargeback by having no funds to return?

Don't spend it. You'd just end up with a negative balance if they charge back, which you'd have to pay.

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Keep all your chat records. Screenshot them and the the trade from your trade history and submit them to paypal if the person charges back. The last three chargebacks that I know of have all been successfully reversed on appeal. Paypal's new stance on virtual goods seems to have actually done something.

 

Until the chargeback, worrying won't really do you any good. So just keep it out of sight and mind until then.

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Of cource, but can I contact paypal and make them aware of this? If I spend any of the money, will it prevent a chargeback by having no funds to return?

 

You can go ahead and try to contact paypal and warn them that you think you'll get a chargeback, but I'm guessing that's going to be about as effective as trying to get Elon Musk on the phone.  

 

IIRC, you can dispute a claim about a chargeback and the money will go back to you, someone here has done it before. 

 

Yes, it's been done several time, but as far as I know unsuccessful disputes still far outnumber successful disputes when it comes to digital items. 

 

Don't spend it. You'd just end up with a negative balance if they charge back, which you'd have to pay.

 

^ Yup, you'll end up with a negative balance on which they'll charge interest.  If you don't make up the negative balance, it'll be sent to a collections agency and you'll get a mark on your credit score.  You don't want this, so do not spend the money. 

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Keep all your chat records. Screenshot them and the the trade from your trade history and submit them to paypal if the person charges back. The last three chargebacks that I know of have all been successfully reversed on appeal. Paypal's new stance on virtual goods seems to have actually done something.

 

Until the chargeback, worrying won't really do you any good. So just keep it out of sight and mind until then.

 

Thank you for giving me some hope. May I add you to discuss this at a later date? I'm glad you gave me the advice of keeping it out of sight and mind. That was beyond beneficial.

 

You can go ahead and try to contact paypal and warn them that you think you'll get a chargeback, but I'm guessing that's going to be about as effective as trying to get Elon Musk on the phone.  

 

 

Yes, it's been done several time, but as far as I know unsuccessful disputes still far outnumber successful disputes when it comes to digital items. 

 

 

^ Yup, you'll end up with a negative balance on which they'll charge interest.  If you don't make up the negative balance, it'll be sent to a collections agency and you'll get a mark on your credit score.  You don't want this, so do not spend the money. 

 Thanks for clearing that up.

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Thank you for giving me some hope. May I add you to discuss this at a later date? I'm glad you gave me the advice of keeping it out of sight and mind. That was beyond beneficial.

 

 Thanks for clearing that up.

 

My FL turnover is really quick. Your best bet to contact me is by PMing me on the forums whenever you need it - http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/user/1501-polar/

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I've been charged back before, happened exactly like this, except i stopped after selling the first batch of keys because i said he didn't have enough rep. 

I lost my case unfortunately, but i didn't have complete chat logs and my pp wasn't verified at that point. Paypal was a pain to try and communicate with because it's all just me typing in boxes saying what happened, no real responses. 

 

Best of luck to you though. My charge back was a measley $20 (ended up gathering interest to $40 since i spent the money and couldn't pay it back for a while) 

I'm sure with like ~$360 worth of stuff they'll look more into it.

 

Edit: You also have complete chat logs, which will help your case a ton. Also him saying that he promises might make a difference.

Usually what I do now is once i get the money i ask them if they can confirm that they are (Irl name that sent me money in paypal) and when they say yes i send the keys.

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Banking Bot, what do you mean? Thanks for the info Mikr Hawk!

Think he means you need to some way shape or form link/prove his the steam trade with his paypal account (chat or paypal notes...etc just something)

 

If their is "no link" to his paypal it just looks like an accidental payment and it will be much harder for you to dispute the chargeback.

 

Also depending on his card details he can chargeback anytime within the next 6 months to make sure you have all your proof/everything backed up properly.

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^ this, you need him to send you the money together with a message that waives chargeback + him using his paypal email to send you an email to confirm the sale for credit card side

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Think he means you need to some way shape or form link/prove his the steam trade with his paypal account (chat or paypal notes...etc just something)

 

If their is "no link" to his paypal it just looks like an accidental payment and it will be much harder for you to dispute the chargeback.

 

Also depending on his card details he can chargeback anytime within the next 6 months to make sure you have all your proof/everything backed up properly.

So theoretically they can chargeback exactly 6 months from now? So the money is basically unspendable until then?

 

^ this, you need him to send you the money together with a message that waives chargeback + him using his paypal email to send you an email to confirm the sale for credit card side

 So essentially have email confirmation that isn't PayPal's automated email?

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So theoretically they can chargeback exactly 6 months from now? So the money is basically unspendable until then?

 

So essentially have email confirmation that isn't PayPal's automated email?

 

Really depends on their CC company feel free to spend the money if you have proper proof to dispute the chargeback it would make no difference, paypal also now recognises the sale of virtual items so it isnt hard to dispute (compared to before)

 

Tbh nothing really completely stops them from claiming a chargeback, if they have paypal confirmation email/android to phone confirmation app...etc and it looks sus when the dispute via paypal they can just dispute via their bank and say their CC was stolen or something because they dont recognise the payments and the bank will "charge back". The only 100% fool proof way is using services which can't be charged back eg. western union since there is no way to charge back cash (as long as you pick up before you trade)

 

Basically just use the money as if it's normal and if you get chargedback dispute it, make sure you back up all evidence...etc and you'll be fine.

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So I actually pointed this guy out a couple days ago, he's banned for being a paypal scammer. 

The only way I've heard is sending the money to another account, and then  closing this one.

IDK if that actually works.

 

:C 

 

IF he is the actual alt of Doggy/Buggy. Which I haven't looked at.

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Really depends on their CC company feel free to spend the money if you have proper proof to dispute the chargeback it would make no difference, paypal also now recognises the sale of virtual items so it isnt hard to dispute (compared to before)

 

Tbh nothing really completely stops them from claiming a chargeback, if they have paypal confirmation email/android to phone confirmation app...etc and it looks sus when the dispute via paypal they can just dispute via their bank and say their CC was stolen or something because they dont recognise the payments and the bank will "charge back". The only 100% fool proof way is using services which can't be charged back eg. western union since there is no way to charge back cash (as long as you pick up before you trade)

 

Basically just use the money as if it's normal and if you get chargedback dispute it, make sure you back up all evidence...etc and you'll be fine.

 

Thanks for the info. From the imgur post I had, does it appear that my proof is sufficient? Are there any obvoius gaps in my evidence? Keep in mind I also have sc of each confirmation email and steam history trade not up yet.

 

how is this a scam? im very confused

 

Its not, but since I traded with a very untrustworthy source, we have every reason to belive that he will chargeback the transaction in the future. When that happens, I've got to be ready to dispute the chargeback.

 

So I actually pointed this guy out a couple days ago, he's banned for being a paypal scammer. 

The only way I've heard is sending the money to another account, and then  closing this one.

IDK if that actually works.

 

:C 

 

IF he is the actual alt of Doggy/Buggy. Which I haven't looked at.

 

Yea, I feel like he is an alt of Doggy. It is a little weird that he would send all his keys to that account given it is marked on backpack.tf. 

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So I actually pointed this guy out a couple days ago, he's banned for being a paypal scammer. 

The only way I've heard is sending the money to another account, and then  closing this one.

IDK if that actually works.

 

:C 

 

IF he is the actual alt of Doggy/Buggy. Which I haven't looked at.

I'm pretty sure the guys bank will hunt down paypal

and in turn paypal will hunt you down.

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Thanks for the info. From the imgur post I had, does it appear that my proof is sufficient? Are there any obvoius gaps in my evidence? Keep in mind I also have sc of each confirmation email and steam history trade not up yet.

 

Basically the more info the better and if he does charge back just put everything you have for the dispute.

 

So I actually pointed this guy out a couple days ago, he's banned for being a paypal scammer. 

The only way I've heard is sending the money to another account, and then  closing this one.

IDK if that actually works.

 

Replying in case you do try it in the future but doing that will get you into a lot of shit which is not worth it for any amount of money you may lose.

 

That's the equivalent of opening a credit card, spending a lot of money and then trying to run away without paying back.

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