Steam Escrow Discussion and Speculation

[Major Erection]

To those who are worried about trolls, Valve released an article about the trade holds
 

How does it work?

If a user trading away items hasn't had their account protected by a Mobile Authenticator for the past 7 days, items delivery will be delayed by Steam for up to 3 days. This provides the user time to cancel the trade and any other that are pending.
Cancelling trades that are pending or in a trade hold will begin a trading cooldown on your account to prevent any further unauthorized attempts to trade away items.

 

Source : https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8078-TPHC-6195

 

Valve didn't say how long is the trade cooldown but a friend told me it's for a week.

 

Please let me know if I missed something or said anything wrong. Thanks

[xosmin]

I just enabled the mobile authenticator, (already had the steam app) and tried a test trade (I had email confirmations off) and I didn't have to confirm the trade with a mobile code. I do have the market discounts now though

that's amazing news . now, if valve could add an option to "decline requests from non mobile auth users automatically" it would actually make a lot of people happy

[Royal]

I just enabled the mobile authenticator, (already had the steam app) and tried a test trade (I had email confirmations off) and I didn't have to confirm the trade with a mobile code. I do have the market discounts now though

Escrow isn't active yet, so it doesn't mean this method could work once it goes live. Maybe your items will be held for 3 days if you turn off the email thing.

[Toad]

that's amazing news . now, if valve could add an option to "decline requests from non mobile auth users automatically" it would actually make a lot of people happy

Oh yes Let's just cut out 50% of the trading community and everyone will be happy! Not everyone has a phone, let alone a smartphone. 

[xosmin]

Oh yes Let's just cut out 50% of the trading community and everyone will be happy! Not everyone has a phone, let alone a smartphone. 

i didn't say everyone will be happy. i said that the existence of such on option would make a lot of people happy.

[Heated Bread]

Oh yes Let's just cut out 50% of the trading community and everyone will be happy! Not everyone has a phone, let alone a smartphone. 

 

We have reached a point when android phones can be found for dirt cheap prices.  Many of them are cheaper than a regular entry level cellphone.  We're talking an hour or two of pay at a minimum wage job.   You can also get them with a pay as you go service without a contract.  You have absolutely no excuses not to own one unless you are 8 years old or something, and if you're that young, you probably shouldn't be trading anyway and I honestly don't care if you have to wait 3 days.

[cąℓσceđrus ☁☽]

We have reached a point when android phones can be found for dirt cheap prices.  Many of them are cheaper than a regular entry level cellphone.  We're talking an hour or two of pay at a minimum wage job.   You can also get them with a pay as you go service without a contract.  You have absolutely no excuses not to own one unless you are 8 years old or something, and if you're that young, you probably shouldn't be trading anyway and I honestly don't care if you have to wait 3 days.

 

 

fuck off nazi

[Toad]

We have reached a point when android phones can be found for dirt cheap prices.  Many of them are cheaper than a regular entry level cellphone.  We're talking an hour or two of pay at a minimum wage job.   You can also get them with a pay as you go service without a contract.  You have absolutely no excuses not to own one unless you are 8 years old or something, and if you're that young, you probably shouldn't be trading anyway and I honestly don't care if you have to wait 3 days.

 

Dirt cheap smartphones generally don't have a lot of memory, I have one, and I cannot install steam even if I deleted almost everything. And you're expecting everyone to just dump their windows phones and get a smart phone so they can trade? And to everyone who doesn't have a phone, to simply just buy one, get a data plan, and pay for it somehow? Please get off your high horse.

[Major Erection]

We have reached a point when android phones can be found for dirt cheap prices.  Many of them are cheaper than a regular entry level cellphone.  We're talking an hour or two of pay at a minimum wage job.   You can also get them with a pay as you go service without a contract.  You have absolutely no excuses not to own one unless you are 8 years old or something, and if you're that young, you probably shouldn't be trading anyway and I honestly don't care if you have to wait 3 days.

 

There are many reasons to not own a smartphone. Also, in many countries they are far from cheap. In my country to own a smartphone you need at least half a month's salary if you're working minimum wage to own a smartphone.

 

fuck off nazi

 

I personally think we shouldn't reply with comments like this as it will stray this thread away from it's original intent. We're all on the same boat here, let's work together

[Heated Bread]

Dirt cheap smartphones generally don't have a lot of memory, I have one, and I cannot install steam even if I deleted almost everything. And you're expecting everyone to just dump their windows phones and get a smart phone so they can trade? And to everyone who doesn't have a phone, to simply just buy one, get a data plan, and pay for it somehow? Please get off your high horse.

 

I bought my android for less than 10 usd, it has plenty of memory, and a data plan is pretty irrelevant when you just use it with wifi.

 

edit: and widows phone users are less than 5% of the smartphone market, with Q3 sales being only 1.6%.  They've never been very popular and they've been declining the last few years.  It really doesn't make sense to support them IMO.

[Major Erection]

I bought my android for less than 10 usd, it has plenty of memory, and a data plan is pretty irrelevant when you just use it with wifi.

 

Dayum phones are cheap wherever you're from. Unfortunately not everyone shares the same luxury as you :/

[HusKy]

So the petition with ~25k signatures gets deleted. Way to go, Valve.

[Nobu]

There are many reasons to not own a smartphone. Also, in many countries they are far from cheap. In my country to own a smartphone you need at least half a month's salary if you're working minimum wage to own a smartphone.

 

What reasons? 

 

You can get smart phones online for less than 200 Malaysian Ringgit. It doesn't have to be the latest smartphone. Any android OS phone capable of running the app is sufficient. 

 

You don't need to have a phone line subscription either. 

[The Recluse]

He doesn't need one.

[Toad]

I also imagine a large portion of traders are young, maybe don't even own a phone, but screw them because "everyone has a smartphone" right? No matter which way you look at it, there will be alienation of many users, the question here is how many?

[Heated Bread]

I also imagine a large portion of traders are young, maybe don't even own a phone, but screw them because "everyone has a smartphone" right? No matter which way you look at it, there will be alienation of many users, the question here is how many?

 

Right now there's a tutorial up on the steam community telling people to use an android emulator to install the steam mobile app on their PC.  I assume the ones who really care will just be doing that.  I personally think it defeats the purpose of it because it is supposed to require a separate device from your pc, but hey...  I guess we'll see where it goes.  Valve doesn't seem to be taking that tutorial down.  I know steam community moderators have seen it because there is one replying to posts in the same thread where it was posted.

[Toad]

Right now there's a tutorial up on the steam community telling people to use an android emulator to install the steam mobile app on their PC.  I assume the ones who really care will just be doing that.  I personally think it defeats the purpose of it because it is supposed to require a separate device from your pc, but hey...  I guess we'll see where it goes.  Valve doesn't seem to be taking that tutorial down.  I know steam community moderators have seen it because there is one replying to posts in the same thread where it was posted.

You shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops just to trade.

[Heated Bread]

You shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops just to trade.

"Shouldn't"?  What does that mean?  If you were speaking in terms of an ideal world then I would agree.  We don't live in that world.  We live in a world with scammers and hijackers and a steam support system that seems to be overburdened with tickets related to them.  If you believe you have a better solution, odds are that you're probably wrong, but I do encourage you to try pitching it to someone at valve.  Maybe you'll be able to contribute an idea that will do a better job and make things easier on everyone except scammers and hijackers.

[zaabluc]

ScrapTF has announced "Scrap.TF's bots will not be affected by this restriction if YOU have mobile auth enabled, however all trades with our bots and everyone else will still be held for 3 days if you do not have mobile auth enabled."

So does it mean other bots are also fine or it's just ScrapTF dev somehow coded own bots to work after 9th Dec?

[Toad]

"Shouldn't"?  What does that mean?  If you were speaking in terms of an ideal world then I would agree.  We don't live in that world.  We live in a world with scammers and hijackers and a steam support system that seems to be overburdened with tickets related to them.  If you believe you have a better solution, odds are that you're probably wrong, but I do encourage you to try pitching it to someone at valve.  Maybe you'll be able to contribute an idea that will do a better job and make things easier on everyone except scammers and hijackers.

Regular traders shouldn't be held at the expense of stupidity, ie, people falling for scams. My solution? Why are you implying there is even a solution? Leave it as it is. You can't bubble wrap everything.

[_Pai]

ScrapTF has announced "Scrap.TF's bots will not be affected by this restriction if YOU have mobile auth enabled, however all trades with our bots and everyone else will still be held for 3 days if you do not have mobile auth enabled."

So does it mean other bots are also fine or it's just ScrapTF dev somehow coded own bots to work after 9th Dec?

See this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/3uc1va/ive_made_a_c_library_to_easily_enablemanageuse/

 

Basically it's a program to emulate the steam app. You still need a basic cell phone (smart or not) to receive a confirmation text, but after that it's phone free. Do know this: If you do have a device compatible with the steam app, use it. Like it or not, its secure 2FA, and the desktop program defeats the purpose of the whole thing in the first place, making you no less vulnerable after using it.

 

I'm unclear how you'd set it up with a bot, but they must have it running on the same vm/desktop the bot is.

[Heated Bread]

So as I was farting around on the community boards, some additional perspective on this whole issue came to light.  As with most things to do with business strategy, it makes more sense if you just think about it in terms of money.  Shocking, right?    Aggressively pushing the mobile app opens up a pathway for millions of users to browse the steam store and community market wherever they are from their phone, which means the potential of more money for valve.  That's why valve had to make their own app and that's why it has to be feature rich instead of going with a simpler approach only focused on security.

 

By adding the 3 day escrow but waiving it for mobile authentication users, they are incentivizing people to adopt the mobile app, which can always be expanded later to include support for mobile games of course, and which already has built in access to the store and the market.  And by having it used to authenticate logins and confirm trades, they are forcing people to constantly launch the app, training them to use it and making them more likely to make purchases through it in the future.  The whole thing is a calculated move, gambling the stability of trading against the future potential increased revenue to be gained by widespread adoption of the mobile app.

 

It's their way of getting into the mobile market.  I'm actually kinda pissed off that they're being so devious.  They're pushing it as a security concern, but that's not the whole story at all.  It's only part of the truth.

[Toasted Ninja]

This may just be the final nail in the coffin for steam trading which will impact steam as a whole. If nobody is regularly trading then why would anyone spend money to try and unbox that rare ass skin if trading it is going to be the biggest hassle ever? This is going to ruin legitimate bot trading that facilitate a HUGE need in this economy. They say they are doing this to try and impose patience on an unsecure trade but in all actuality it will make traders MORE impatient because they want their item 10 !@#$%^ing minutes ago let alone THREE DAYS from their purchase. This is the worse kind of coddling and the worse decision they've made. I didn't think that the email system was in need of fixing, and the scams that this will supposedly stop are small fish in a huge ocean. This is just trying to drive people to the community market to buy their goods which supposedly give them more money but what they fail to realize is that they make ALL their money from KEYS. Us traders are the defining market on keys, and if we arent trading in them and arent valuing them as high then the price WILL drop and sales WILL decline. the amount of keys that go through the market by us traders is absolutely staggering and steam is willing to dry that up? Yeah they may make an extra .10 cents on some misc or strange in the market per transactions but they will losing out on MILLIONS of transactions on keys and other items that are considered pure. I have a board up in suggestions/ideas http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/10/492378806376611360/and i hope more will join in on the discussion & hopefully enough of us can stop this from happening!

[Toasted Ninja]

So as I was farting around on the community boards, some additional perspective on this whole issue came to light.  As with most things to do with business strategy, it makes more sense if you just think about it in terms of money.  Shocking, right?    Aggressively pushing the mobile app opens up a pathway for millions of users to browse the steam store and community market wherever they are from their phone, which means the potential of more money for valve.  That's why valve had to make their own app and that's why it has to be feature rich instead of going with a simpler approach only focused on security.

 

By adding the 3 day escrow but waiving it for mobile authentication users, they are incentivizing people to adopt the mobile app, which can always be expanded later to include support for mobile games of course, and which already has built in access to the store and the market.  And by having it used to authenticate logins and confirm trades, they are forcing people to constantly launch the app, training them to use it and making them more likely to make purchases through it in the future.  The whole thing is a calculated move, gambling the stability of trading against the future potential increased revenue to be gained by widespread adoption of the mobile app.

 

It's their way of getting into the mobile market.  I'm actually kinda pissed off that they're being so devious.  They're pushing it as a security concern, but that's not the whole story at all.  It's only part of the truth.

. . . but what about those without phones? Or those who don't want to/can't run android emulators on their computer just to trade? This is isolating a HUGE part of their demographic.

[Heated Bread]

. . . but what about those without phones? Or those who don't want to/can't run android emulators on their computer just to trade? This is isolating a HUGE part of their demographic.

 

That's part of the gamble, isn't it?  My guess is that they're going to back off on that later once they've gotten enough people to adopt the mobile app.  The userbase will feel like it has won, and valve will have successfully wedged itself into the mobile sector by getting so many people to download and use their app.