Hexlicious Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Feel like this should have been put out by a higher ranked person before this change was implemented, so far I have seen nobody wanting it to stay and I very much agree.This change was put in to resolve the buy order issue where people listed to buy killstreak items for higher and it showed on the base items buy order page, instead of just making a separate list for people wanting to buy killstreak items, they are now giving people more "fictional" backpack value like what paint or strange parts do, which me and several others do not agree with. (specially people who purchase whole backpacks)There has to be a way to implement this that wont affect our backpack value, cause at this point it is nothing but annoying, specially since the Steam Community Market is incredibly unstable and your backpack value keeps jumping all over the place.This caused more bad than good and hopefully this change is reverted and given a more thought out solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMan Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Edit: I didn't understand this completely, will come back l8r with more words. But for now - i agree, installed cares's script to avoid values out of air aka after eight gibus for ~15 ref. How this was supposed to fix buying order problem? It needs a support of choosing modifications during creating of buying order, not this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vrakos Anthrakir Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 maybe have a personal setting you can turn on and off? as in, once it's on, when you view a backpack (anyone's backpack) it'll show the values of the killstreak stuff based on SCM but this may cause confusion, so just an idea :< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I personally don't mind either way if they fix the different classifieds for different killsteaks, I will still price my items without considering what backpack.tf says the KS adds. It does give a nice ballpark for kits and fabricators though, but that could be done without actually being added to the backpack value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brendanHAX Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I totally agree with you here. I expressed some of my viewpoints here as well: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/statuses/user/6923-brendanhax/?status_id=242627 Some of the main issues with this new change is that fact that it can be easily abused, our backpack values would constantly change due to SCM prices constantly changing, seems to be making the site laggy (or maybe its just a coincidence, I'm not sure), unrealistic values and tax also plays a role in many traders. I'm sure that are many more problems than this. If it is absolutely necessary to resolve the buy order issue, then perhaps there are some alternatives? For example, when creating buy orders, give the user the chance to choose the option of listing for non-killstreaks, specialiseds, or professionals. From there, there could be 3 separate 'tabs' in the statistics page of the item distinguishing between the three. If this isn't a plausible idea, then it honestly wouldn't hurt for the individual to scroll to the person buying a non-killstreak item for the best price, if that is what they're after. Also, maybe there could be an option for users to turn this new system on and off, as well as not adding to backpack value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin the Chicken God Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 they shouldn't have it at all. From my experience buying killstreaks, the SCM price is not accurate to the TF2 pure price, and SCM prices do not accurately represent sheens and killstreakers. The killstreak market is too inconsistent and relies on too many external factors to be prices purely by SCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddhapest Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 if it were to stay it would need to be consistent. right now it's all over the place. some of my items with pro ks use SCM value, some don't. but honestly, i feel like it would be best to actually figure out a way to price killstreak via suggestions (hey if we can do turnips, i mean refined based on 3-4 sales...) and until then, remove the SCM tie in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Delicious Cashew Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 but honestly, i feel like it would be best to actually figure out a way to price killstreak via suggestions (hey if we can do turnips, i mean refined based on 3-4 sales...) and until then, remove the SCM tie in. We considered that option, but it would be incredibly hard to gather evidence, as well as there are different sheens/effects that people think are worth more than others. We would then have to price every sheen on every type of killstreak on every single weapon, which is definitely not plausible. I do believe the change is good. Yes it is slightly buggy, but Mckay/Brad/Fiskie are working on the fixes. I think it should just show a suggested value, but maybe not include it into the bp value. Then again, you guys always tell people to not care about their bp value, so maybe you should follow your own advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noot ♥ Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Keep in mind that some people follow backpack.tf literally like a bible. They might value killstreak weapons like they value regular hats and stranges. They might say something like "Backpack.tf says it's worth xx amounts, I an not going to pay more" Scm prices are too inaccurate and fluctuate too oftenly. The value of different sheen/killstreaker combo varies. My greatest concern is that this change might literally kill the killstreak market My suggestion would be to keep listing the suggested price based on scm, but the value of the killstreak weapons/kits shouldn't be counted in the bp value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedoof Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 As a person who cares about bp value, I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, my bp value's shot up $80, which I can't complain too much about. But on the other hand, I feel like a lot of it is undervalued. Now professional things with combos like team shine and discharge will be factored down to whatever the lowest market one is, say, a mean green hypno beam. And even spec team shine ones will be lowered, though the effect won't be as drastic. All things considered though, I think I'd rather have no price at all than an incorrect one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Salamanders Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Like others have already said it would be near impossible to properly price each and every killstreak given there is 57 killstreak variations for each weapon. That being said, I still think the basic killstreaks could be priced, there is no need for variation based off sheens and effects, just each weapon and its quality/craft/trade varients. Also since this update uses the base price as the fallback if a killstreak weapon can't be found on the market it would at least prevent fallbacks for basic killstreaks and provide a marginally better fallback for spec and pro killstreaks. EDIT: I realise this edit is like 6 hours later so might be missed, but I mentioned the craftability/uncraftability of weapons for killstreak pricing. And on reflection that can be a very important issue since the SCM doesn't separate craft/uncraft items. For example: I own a Non-Craftable Sharpened Volcano Fragment which due to its rarity is priced at 1 key while a Killstreak version of it is priced at 10 ref, almost half price, because the market is filled craftable killstreaks. While a killstreak being undervalued due to using the SCM price can be an issue, having the price of a killstreak weapon actually displayed as lower than the base price due to the SCM is kind of a major issue. It also tends overvalue a lot of uncraft weapons, a craftable unique basic killstreak weapon despite being the "lowest type" of killstreak can still be used in a fabricator, an uncraft weapon obviously can't, which can obviously alter the price of a uncraft killstreak weapon. Also untradable weapons can't be priced on the market which can cause some issues in certain cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Edit: I didn't understand this completely, will come back l8r with more words. But for now - i agree, installed cares's script to avoid values out of air aka after eight gibus for ~15 ref. How this was supposed to fix buying order problem? It needs a support of choosing modifications during creating of buying order, not this. maybe have a personal setting you can turn on and off? as in, once it's on, when you view a backpack (anyone's backpack) it'll show the values of the killstreak stuff based on SCM but this may cause confusion, so just an idea :< ^ main page wise it should stay, backpack wise it should change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted June 28, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't care about bp value, but as far as suggesting goes it's making it a bit confusing to price sweets or killstreaked aussies. I'd like it if it at least showed the base value of an item alongside the killstreak value, so I can gauge if it's accurate or if it needs further research when pricing trades that involve killstreaked items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasty Salamanders Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I'd like it if it at least showed the base value of an item alongside the killstreak valueThat sounds like a good idea for the item pages for killstreak weapons, but it sounds like it could get cluttered or confusing for the backpack icons. But it gave me another ideal, if a killstreak weapon needs to fall back to the base price perhaps there should be something indicating the price is higher like with craft numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I don't care about bp value, but as far as suggesting goes it's making it a bit confusing to price sweets or killstreaked aussies. I'd like it if it at least showed the base value of an item alongside the killstreak value, so I can gauge if it's accurate or if it needs further research when pricing trades that involve killstreaked items. Open 2 tabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted June 28, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2015 Open 2 tabs? ... what? Lol. Yes I can check the base price for each item (assuming that's what you mean) but if there are a lot of them it's quite time-consuming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 ... what? Lol. Yes I can check the base price for each item (assuming that's what you mean) but if there are a lot of them it's quite time-consuming... I think i faced the same issue when doing price suggestions even without the killstreak problem, a script to ease it would be nice to have but i don't think it's compulsory just to save that bit of effort to open another tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 And i think the new implementation made suggesting easier since i won't have to open a steamcommunity market tab and type in stuff, can just type in the item into the search box and right click open this in a new tab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Teeny Tiny Cat Posted June 28, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 28, 2015 And i think the new implementation made suggesting easier since i won't have to open a steamcommunity market tab and type in stuff, can just type in the item into the search box and right click open this in a new tab Well, not really no, seeing as the scm estimation comes from the lowest currently for sale on the scm rather than actual sales. For suggesting, it's still better to average sales around the time of the trade. Plus it bases it on bp.tf key price from what I can tell, rather than scm selling key price (could be wrong, but seems that way based on the prices it's giving me for ks aussies) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BankingBot Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Well, not really no, seeing as the scm estimation comes from the lowest currently for sale on the scm rather than actual sales. For suggesting, it's still better to average sales around the time of the trade. Plus it bases it on bp.tf key price from what I can tell, rather than scm selling key price (could be wrong, but seems that way based on the prices it's giving me for ks aussies) Oh ok didn't realise. yea i agree that the price should be changed, but changed to follow steam market entirely on calculation wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K 13 Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think its a bad idea http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/39917-professional-killstreak-festive-eyelander-no-value-added/ feel sorry for the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 use steam market median price of sells.I do not trust suggestions and the market is updated faster than any possible vote/aprove systemI dont care about trading prices for pure or items so market is a better suggestion and way more stable and accurate that any suggestor can ever be. but then again I only care about steam market prices in any given marketable item and not about bp.tf suggestions at all so theres that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I have requested that all items priced off scm be based off the last x number of sales (I asked for ~10). If there haven't been sales in a month, it should remain unpriced. Currently, it is priced off seller listings which is close enough on commonly traded items but problematic for rarer items. Using sales would fix that. As a heads up, pricing off sales will mean that prices are updated maybe once a day for items priced off SCM. And one last thing since some people asked about it. If we do go with pricing off sales, then for the purpose of suggestions, a 10% overpay calculation off the listed price should be fine. That will take into account the steam tax while not putting too much overpay on items that are essentially selling for "pure." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
λngelღмander Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think it would be effective if there was a script that gathered the last 50 sales or something, or all the sales in the past two weeks, and made an average with them. Maybe just all of the sales in the last 3 days, to keep it recent, and not valuing it by a sale. Taking an average of a certain amount of sales would mean an accurate price at all times, at least, far better than simply displaying the lowest sale on the market. The market is notoriously unstable, but the average (or even median if you want to cut out the outliers for the most part) is a great indicator of actual value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
λngelღмander Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Edit: I have requested that all items priced off scm be based off the last x number of sales (I asked for ~10). I was just thinking about it, I think it would be better based off a certain number of days back, instead of number of sales, because items that sell rarely, you might be taking the sales when the item was new, then those outliers could be factored in after the item dropped significantly. It would probably be better as x number of days back, maybe a week. Oops, double posted, tried to edit this into my last post and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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