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Is religion vestigial, and will we eventually lose it?


λngelღмander

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Humans happened upon religion to explain the forces that they didn't understand. Greeks had their gods to explain the different forces of nature, others to sate their fear of death. So now that we can explain most of the forces of nature, there is little need for a higher power. It's a proven fact that the youth of today are less religious as a whole, so do you think that at some point in the future, religion will become so useless that it will be taboo to follow one? 

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I can't ever imagine religion disappearing as a whole, but I believe the amount of religious people will grow a lot smaller as the world's population (hopefully) becomes wealthier.

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I dont believe it will ever be lost, but I think religion will eventually dissolve more into spiritualism. Main stream religions will fall to the wayside while a simple belief that there is something greater than us out there will be predominant.

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If you listen to religious folks argue about morality, it seems that some people still need an invisible sky daddy to help them behave, while the rest of us don't.  If the only thing keeping them in line is their belief that someone is always watching and judging them, I want them to keep believing in their mythology so that they don't lose control of themselves.  Their own belief is basically doing the job of a full-time babysitter.  I just don't want them to push their beliefs onto kids who are defenseless and will believe nearly anything.  I don't want them to try pushing it on me either.  You may be a bad person who needs to have the threat of punishment held over you to behave, but don't project that onto me by assuming I'm also a bad person who needs the same, and don't try to convince me of it either with stories of talking snakes and shit.  Dick.

 

Anyway... let's actually get serious for a moment.

 

Vestigial implies it had a legitimate purpose at one point.  I'm not sure this was ever true.  I think it has always been a con game that claims to have a good purpose and that co-opts whatever it can in order to spread its influence, like all truly devious con games.  In the past, this was power, money, and education itself.  The catholic church was a monolith.  It was an example of what I think all great religions should aspire to.  This was when excommuniction really meant something.  You had to go through the church to get educated in medicine and math and history and philosophy.  It used to hold all these things almost exclusively.  It had all the money, and it held all the influence over the governments of europe.  During these times, I have no doubt that it was seen as a beacon of light by many, because there was nowhere else to go for the things it controled.  It had no competition.  Times have definitely changed.  As man has learned more and gained more freedom of choice, the beast has gradually lost its grip.

 

But the rules of the ideology con game are still the same, because human nature is still the same.  You have to convince people that they need your ideology so that they are dependant on it for meaning, purpose, and self-worth, and so that they feel like they are doing something good by spreading it to others.  But in order to do that, you have to distort the truth.  People will often say things like religion provides a sense of community, for example.  The reality is that it's human nature to seek out others and form communities.  This would exist without religion.  And it does!  We don't need religion to form communities.  People do it all the time.   Religions just prey on the need for it.

 

People also say that religion gives people morals.  No, it doesn't.  People have morals because without them, they wouldn't survive.  We need eachother and we need other people to like and respect us so that we can make use of eachother's help.  That's what civilization itself is based on.  Religion just claims to be the source of this morality to make you think you need it.

 

The last big one is meaning and purpose.  Now that's a tough one.  It's tough because these are entirely created by the mind.  They're abstract ideas that don't exist in the real world, and so there's nowhere out there to find it.  They have to be created from within one's oown self.  It's also tough because people still think they need these things, especially weak people who tend to look outside themselves for approval and validation.  What you need IMO is a goal of your own choosing, and a way to try to achieve that goal that makes you happy in the process.  That's going to be different from person to person, and from age to age in life.  Religion can often tell you what it says you should do with your life and how to behave, but it can't make you happy in doing it.  That's down to who you are as an individual.

 

I dunno if this was good enough, but they're just my thoughts at the moment.

 

My parting thought is this: con games will always be around as long as there are con artists.  If religion went away, something just as dangerous could take its place.  3rd wave feminism and cultural marxism seem to be a popular thing these days, and they have just as much zealotry and distortion of truth as any religion.  They want power, want your money, claim to be a force for good, make people out as sinners just for being born a certain way, and provide their followers with meaning and purpose.  And if they weren't there, something else would be.

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There will always be stupid people.

I don't know if you're calling religious people stupid, or areligious people stupid. Neither is acceptable, however.

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I guess one could also think, Why am I not as religious as my parents and why didnt they have me do all religious things one would do?

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When I was a young child I was VERY religious, I was pretty gullible. I got recruited to a sunday church with all my friends by a missionary with a candy bar. Literally, I got this huuuuuuuuuge hershey's bar in return for attending their church for at least one week. And they handed out candy if we answered questions from the bible correctly. I was so heavily indoctrinated by those people that it took me years to escape it, but when I moved away from that area, I eventually became devoutly atheist.

 

I'm not proud to be an atheist, because of the types of people who actually are atheists, and their attitudes toward other people, so I usually call myself an agnostic, sort of like how some people who are conservative won't identify with the republican party because they're disgusted by said party.

 

I feel now that even if god did exist, organized religion is still useless and counterproductive.

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If you listen to religious folks argue about morality, it seems that some people still need an invisible sky daddy to help them behave, while the rest of us don't.  If the only thing keeping them in line is their belief that someone is always watching and judging them, I want them to keep believing in their mythology so that they don't lose control of themselves.  Their own belief is basically doing the job of a full-time babysitter.  I just don't want them to push their beliefs onto kids who are defenseless and will believe nearly anything.  I don't want them to try pushing it on me either.  You may be a bad person who needs to have the threat of punishment held over you to behave, but don't project that onto me by assuming I'm also a bad person who needs the same, and don't try to convince me of it either with stories of talking snakes and shit.  Dick.

 

Anyway... let's actually get serious for a moment.

 

Vestigial implies it had a legitimate purpose at one point.  I'm not sure this was ever true.  I think it has always been a con game that claims to have a good purpose and that co-opts whatever it can in order to spread its influence, like all truly devious con games.  In the past, this was power, money, and education itself.  The catholic church was a monolith.  It was an example of what I think all great religions should aspire to.  This was when excommuniction really meant something.  You had to go through the church to get educated in medicine and math and history and philosophy.  It used to hold all these things almost exclusively.  It had all the money, and it held all the influence over the governments of europe.  During these times, I have no doubt that it was seen as a beacon of light by many, because there was nowhere else to go for the things it controled.  It had no competition.  Times have definitely changed.  As man has learned more and gained more freedom of choice, the beast has gradually lost its grip.

 

But the rules of the ideology con game are still the same, because human nature is still the same.  You have to convince people that they need your ideology so that they are dependant on it for meaning, purpose, and self-worth, and so that they feel like they are doing something good by spreading it to others.  But in order to do that, you have to distort the truth.  People will often say things like religion provides a sense of community, for example.  The reality is that it's human nature to seek out others and form communities.  This would exist without religion.  And it does!  We don't need religion to form communities.  People do it all the time.   Religions just prey on the need for it.

 

People also say that religion gives people morals.  No, it doesn't.  People have morals because without them, they wouldn't survive.  We need eachother and we need other people to like and respect us so that we can make use of eachother's help.  That's what civilization itself is based on.  Religion just claims to be the source of this morality to make you think you need it.

 

The last big one is meaning and purpose.  Now that's a tough one.  It's tough because these are entirely created by the mind.  They're abstract ideas that don't exist in the real world, and so there's nowhere out there to find it.  They have to be created from within one's oown self.  It's also tough because people still think they need these things, especially weak people who tend to look outside themselves for approval and validation.  What you need IMO is a goal of your own choosing, and a way to try to achieve that goal that makes you happy in the process.  That's going to be different from person to person, and from age to age in life.  Religion can often tell you what it says you should do with your life and how to behave, but it can't make you happy in doing it.  That's down to who you are as an individual.

 

I dunno if this was good enough, but they're just my thoughts at the moment.

 

My parting thought is this: con games will always be around as long as there are con artists.  If religion went away, something just as dangerous could take its place.  3rd wave feminism and cultural marxism seem to be a popular thing these days, and they have just as much zealotry and distortion of truth as any religion.  They want power, want your money, claim to be a force for good, make people out as sinners just for being born a certain way, and provide their followers with meaning and purpose.  And if they weren't there, something else would be.

tl;dr version pls?

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Religion won't disappear but we will get new religions and most of our current religions will fade away (hell there's some old religions we don't even know about).

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Religion will eventually disappear. Humans tend to have a very common ideal that we are the most advanced and the most powerful beings, which is why religion will disappear, because we will begin to see something being more powerful than us as 'silly'. 

 

Of course i'm a big believer in the whole 'ant - boot' idealism. The universe is pretty big, and thinking that out of all of it, there isn't a more powerful species that could stomp us like an ant, is simply crazy.

 

TL;DR

 

We're probably gonna get destroyed by some alien race, and they'll force their religion upon us instead.

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is there a reason we even make new religious threads? all it is is the same people stating that religion is bad, useless, or even harmful to human kind

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When I was a young child I was VERY religious, I was pretty gullible. I got recruited to a sunday church with all my friends by a missionary with a candy bar. Literally, I got this huuuuuuuuuge hershey's bar in return for attending their church for at least one week. And they handed out candy if we answered questions from the bible correctly. I was so heavily indoctrinated by those people that it took me years to escape it, but when I moved away from that area, I eventually became devoutly atheist.

And yet they claim to have morals. Organised religion is simply a method of control that evolved from and out competed Hellenic/tribal paganism. The Carthaginians burnt children alive, the Catholic church was excellent at laundering money and even now, where the leader points, the masses follow. In time, this should change.

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When I was a young child I was VERY religious, I was pretty gullible. I got recruited to a sunday church with all my friends by a missionary with a candy bar. Literally, I got this huuuuuuuuuge hershey's bar in return for attending their church for at least one week. And they handed out candy if we answered questions from the bible correctly. I was so heavily indoctrinated by those people that it took me years to escape it, but when I moved away from that area, I eventually became devoutly atheist.

 

I'm not proud to be an atheist, because of the types of people who actually are atheists, and their attitudes toward other people, so I usually call myself an agnostic, sort of like how some people who are conservative won't identify with the republican party because they're disgusted by said party.

 

I feel now that even if god did exist, organized religion is still useless and counterproductive.

I've never been very religious. I believe in Christianity but not very religious. It doesn't effect me in any way whatsoever.

But honestly, it's your choice what you want to believe in. If you went to atheism because they were extremely manipulative then good for you.

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Religion is like a penis. It's fine if you have one, just don't go trying to shove it down my children's throats.

 

 

Vestigial implies it had a legitimate purpose at one point.  I'm not sure this was ever true.  I think it has always been a con game that claims to have a good purpose and that co-opts whatever it can in order to spread its influence, like all truly devious con games.  In the past, this was power, money, and education itself.  The catholic church was a monolith.  It was an example of what I think all great religions should aspire to.  This was when excommuniction really meant something.  You had to go through the church to get educated in medicine and math and history and philosophy.  It used to hold all these things almost exclusively.  It had all the money, and it held all the influence over the governments of europe.  During these times, I have no doubt that it was seen as a beacon of light by many, because there was nowhere else to go for the things it controled.  It had no competition.  Times have definitely changed.  As man has learned more and gained more freedom of choice, the beast has gradually lost its grip.

 

My parting thought is this: con games will always be around as long as there are con artists.  If religion went away, something just as dangerous could take its place.  3rd wave feminism and cultural marxism seem to be a popular thing these days, and they have just as much zealotry and distortion of truth as any religion.  They want power, want your money, claim to be a force for good, make people out as sinners just for being born a certain way, and provide their followers with meaning and purpose.  And if they weren't there, something else would be.

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Religion is like a penis. It's fine if you have one, just don't go trying to shove it down my children's throats.

That's not a good analogy or whatever at all.

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I don't think religion will disappear anytime soon. There are countries today where religion is a very important part of their everyday life. Mexico and Italy are the first two that come to mind. 

 

If anything, religion will only fade slightly. I remember that someone said this a while back (heated bread maybe? idk) and I think that he may be right. There are a lot of people out there that believe in god but don't ever go to church or practice religion but only follow the morals their religion teaches (the golden rule, treat neighbor as thyself and so on). They would pass the morals onto their children but most likely not pass the whole go to church every Sunday, pray every night, etc.

 

Reason being?

Because it's all sorts of wrong and it only seems like you wrote that to be funny or get likes.

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it's obviously not yet vestigial as it still performs massively significant cultural functions for the vast majority of humanity. 

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Always fun to see the atheists who think they are the so intelligent in their disregard of religion and god in general and like jerking their fedoras off.

 

But anyways, to go off topic in an on topic way. We as humanity know only the so little about the world and universe we live in. The universe came to exist in a way almost exactly how the bible explains it's creation in Genesis. Steven Hawkins believes he the universe created itself because it had to create itself, which has more logic holes in it than atheists trying to prove god's non-existance.

 

Religion may slowly decline, as people choose to pursue logic and reason, but I seriously doubt (and really hope) religion does not disappear. Logic and reason progresses society, but religion gives society as a whole a direction and provides a sense of community and morality.

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Because it's all sorts of wrong and it only seems like you wrote that to be funny or get likes.

It's an analogy. It's perfectly fine for people to have a religion, as long as they don't force their religion/beliefs on people, and it doesn't negatively impact society/my life.

Again, how my analogy wrong? You stated that it is wrong without a reason as to why it's wrong. That doesn't answer my question at all.

 

Most people don't like it when religion/belief systems are forced upon them/their children.

Most people don't like it when sexual encounters are forced upon them/their children.

 

Prove me wrong.

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We can only hope. Wont happen anytime soon but maybe in the distant future.

 

Religion may slowly decline, as people choose to pursue logic and reason, but I seriously doubt (and really hope) religion does not disappear. Logic and reason progresses society, but religion gives society as a whole a direction and provides a sense of community and morality.

 

Do you honestly believe we need religion for a sense of community and morality? You speak highly of logic and reason then you say that we need religion for community and morality... Come on now, seriously.

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It's an analogy. It's perfectly fine for people to have a religion, as long as they don't force their religion/beliefs on people, and it doesn't negatively impact society/my life.

Again, how my analogy wrong? You stated that it is wrong without a reason as to why it's wrong. That doesn't answer my question at all.

 

Most people don't like it when religion/belief systems are forced upon them/their children.

Most people don't like it when sexual encounters are forced upon them/their children.

 

Prove me wrong.

I wasn't out to prove you wrong or even said any of that was false? lmao. No need to be hostile here. There are many other and hell of a lot better ways ways to make that analogy to pass your point yet you chose that specific one. Reread my reply as it seems you have misunderstood.

 

Jesus, everyone is always picking for a fight. Let's say on the topic.

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I don't understand how people can hate religion as a whole. It's the same type of bigotry present in ultra-relgious people. It's unfounded. There are plenty of religions people and groups that practice it without harm to others.

 

I used to be a Christian, but am currently (kind of) agnostic. The majority of people I know are religious and are generally good people, but still live life well and never try to force their beliefs upon other people. They know I am not religious and accept me still. They ask me why I'm not religious, I tell them why and they even understand why.

 

And no, I don't think religion will ever die out, as long as humans still exist.

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Always fun to see the atheists who think they are the so intelligent in their disregard of religion and god in general and like jerking their fedoras off.

Your statement is a fallacy.

 

But anyways, to go off topic in an on topic way. We as humanity know only the so little about the world and universe we live in.

So you admit we know "so little" about the universe.

The universe came to exist in a way almost exactly how the bible explains it's creation in Genesis.

Then you claim to know "almost exactly" how the universe was created.

 

 

Steven Hawkins believes he the universe created itself because it had to create itself, which has more logic holes in it than atheists trying to prove god's non-existance.

>prove non-existance.

1. Atheism is a belief system where people don't believe in any gods (non-believers). This does not necessarily mean that they believe that there are no gods(disbelievers).

ex: I don't know if it's real or if its fake(non-belief). vs. I know that it's fake(disbelief). Atheists can be both.

2. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proofBelievers and disbelievers need to prove themselves right. Nonbelievers don't need to prove anything. Nonbelievers (along with disbelievers) are atheists. Believers & disbelievers both need to prove themselves right. This hasn't happened. "My opponent hasn't proved himself right, therefore I'm right/he's wrong" is not a valid argument.

 

 

Religion may slowly decline, as people choose to pursue logic and reason, but I seriously doubt (and really hope) religion does not disappear. Logic and reason progresses society, but religion gives society as a whole a direction and provides a sense of community and morality.

Religion is just one of many things that can provide a sense of community. (morality is not based upon religion, it's based upon how you were raised, which could be influenced by religion) That sense of community can become a double edged blade though. There are many hateful religious people that treat nonreligious people, or people of other religions poorly. There are also hateful nonreligious people out there that will treaqt religious people poorly. These types of interactions drive people apart.

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