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polar

The new update and what it means for unusual suggestions

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polar

PLEASE READ THE BOLD TEXT CAREFULLY. The rest is just an explanation for each "rule."

 

As massive as this overhaul was I want to highlight a few critical implications regarding unusual suggestions. We will have to make some discretionary changes to the unusual suggestion guide TEMPORARILY to accommodate the short term problems associated with this overhaul. 

 

(1) Be VERY careful using hats priced > TWO MONTHS old as proof in any suggestion under any context whether it's a MAIN suggestion or being used as a MINI.

Rationale for this:

Buds were ~15 keys 3 months ago and using hats priced when buds were 15 keys is going to be really problematic when using as proof in new suggestions. The vast majority of those hats are insanely inflated. Values of most hats are most reasonable when buds were ~10-13 keys in value. And that range stretches from February 1 to last week. Those suggestions are probably closest representations to actual hat values, so that's why I'm using two months as the general cutoff you should keep in mind. Does this mean we will close suggestions using hats with 2-3 month old prices as proof? Not automatically. But PLEASE USE COMMON SENSE. If the hat you are using as proof is listed at 1000 keys with current b/os of 600 keys, you should obviously realize that the hat is way outdated even though the price is not more than 3 months old. 

 

(2) The ONLY true currencies that require NO overpay are keys, refined, and cash (SCM or real world dollars). All other items (max heads, buds, australiums, HOUWARs) will require some overpay, though not necessarily 10%. 

Rationale for this:

All of these other items have dropped in dollar value in the last two months. You don't (and shouldn't) use 10% overpay to calculate prices. I leave it at the discretion of the suggester to decide what is appropriate, but reasonable estimates for quicksell pure values are 1 key off of the low end of classifieds or 1 key off of the low end of the bp.tf value. This doesn't necessarily apply to every situation, so please use common sense in your judgment. 

 

(3) Temporarily, we will allow suggestions based only on b/os under certain situations. Sales are still much preferred over b/os and if sales are less than the b/o, you should price off the sales. Using this strategy should be avoided, if possible. If you do make a suggestion based on b/os, it must follow the following guidelines:

- The b/o must not be a "young" one. A good rule of thumb is 1 week per 25 keys. Give a hat at least one week to sell if it's under 25 keys in value. 2 weeks for 50 keys. 3 weeks for 75 keys. 4 weeks for anything 100+ keys in value. If the b/os are younger than that, you should not drop the hat value based on the b/o alone. 

- You cannot make more than 1 suggestion based on b/os alone for any given hat. If the last suggestion was based on b/os, the next suggestion must have actual sales. 

Rationale for this:

A lot of hats are ridiculously inflated. Doing so allows a quick, efficient way to get hats closer to their actual values. This exception will probably be removed within a month. 

 

(4) Take all values as they were at the time of the trade. If you have justification for why the bp.tf value was NOT accurate at the time of the sale (i.e. unusuals priced 6 months ago that needed updating or buds that were running a key behind), please provide that reason in your suggestion. 

 

(5) Your ranges are going to be very WIDE and awkward, but that's OKAY. Sometimes your high end will be higher than b/os by a bit. Sometimes the range may feel weird. That's okay. I have already seen this in multiple new suggestions. Use common sense. Use your trading and suggestion experience. We are all learning as it goes and the mods are going to be very lenient in the beginning. It's okay if the suggestion doesn't look perfect. Huge props if you are making it much better than the current range. 

 

(6) Suggestion "fixes." These are resuggestions of previously ACCEPTED suggestions in the last 2 months to allow for appropriate pricing in keys. I will allow these kinds of suggestions ONLY if the sales used as proof are less than 2 months old. That is an absolute cut-off. If the sale is >2 months old, it cannot be used and it cannot be resuggested to "fix" the previous price. This is to allow a fair playing field for everyone even though it adds to the workload of the mods. 

 

Remember, our "prices" are estimates and our "rules" guidelines. In the next month, mods are going to be more lenient than usual on most suggestions. Take it easy. Help each other out. Let's take a positive next step forward in this new era of unusual pricing!

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knavesmith

I'm guessing if a B/O is in buds, just convert it to keys using current bud price?

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A Delicious Cashew

(3) Temporarily, we will allow suggestions based only on b/os under certain situations. If you do make a suggestion based on b/os, it must follow the following guidelines:

- The b/o must not be a "young" one. A good rule of thumb is 1 week per 25 keys. Give a hat at least one week to sell if it's under 20 keys in value. 2 weeks for 50 keys. 3 weeks for 75 keys. 4 weeks for anything 100+ keys in value. If the b/os are younger than that, you should not drop the hat value based on the b/o alone. 

- You cannot make more than 1 suggestion based on b/os alone for any given hat. If the last suggestion was based on b/os. The next suggestion must have actual sales. 

Rationale for this:

A lot of hats are ridiculously inflated. Doing so allows a quick, efficient way to get hats closer to their actual values. This exception will probably be removed within a month. 

When making suggestions like this, remember that its quality > quantity, as in make suggestions with good proof and "older" b/o's. Unusuals take time to sell, and a 200 key hat being unable to sell in a few days DOES NOT mean it can't sell in a month.

 

Please use common sense, most unusual hats do not go flying off the shelves. They take time to actually sell. I can not emphasize this point enough, especially considering how many of these suggestions I envision over the next month.

 

Furthermore, please remember that sales always have priority over b/o's. If there are usable sales, please try and incorporate them into your suggestion. In those situations, b/o's would be supporting proof for a drop. 

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polar

I'm guessing if a B/O is in buds, just convert it to keys using current bud price?

 

I would be a bit careful. I already know of several situations from first hand experience of traders not selling their hats for their own b/os in buds. Things are going to be a bit crazy for a week or so. I would advise to progress with caution. But yes, in general b/os are converted at the current price of buds. 

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brendanHAX

This thread has answered most of the questions I had about the sudden conversion.

Thank you polar, and the rest of the mod team, for your hard work and dedication. :)

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polar

This thread has answered most of the questions I had about the sudden conversion.

Thank you polar, and the rest of the mod team, for your hard work and dedication. :)

 

Thanks for your comments. I added #6 to cover your question.

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Noot ♥

Oh boy. That's a lot of suggesting to do. Gather all the regular suggestors in an effort to update the hats?

What about the rule of duped hats value 3 buds or above requiring a mini? How many keys would that equal to?

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polar

Oh boy. That's a lot of suggesting to do. Gather all the regular suggestors in an effort to update the hats?

What about the rule of duped hats value 3 buds or above requiring a mini? How many keys would that equal to?

 

Think it's better to err on the side of caution when it comes to that. Will probably edit that to be 25 keys in the main guidelines.

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knavesmith

You should also change the voting power from buds to keys. Would help suggestors suggest for higher priced Unusuals.

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A Cyan Stone in Mustard

The economy must be really unstable for this big a change to happen

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Scrublordington the III

I was never sure of this but can we cap a range based off a b/o?

 

Say there was a sale at 50 and a sale at 76 but a b/o at 60, would the range be 50 - 60 or 50 - 76. Especially since there are some unsolds at the price before the currency change

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♥Sel♥ <☼>
Posted · Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given

Yes, lets Price everything like buds were 12 keys!

Let's ignore the fact keys only rised and buds only dropped due to the rich kids with the 1000s of ref idle account bot nets. Now: time to reprice our hats, raising their value by 200 percent, it's about stopping the rich kids bps to drop in key worth - I wondered how long it would take.

I mean, hey - all it cost you was the trust of everyone with a brain. The prices might be suggested by community members, but the things getting accepted follow the will of admins.

Cheers, you did it. Now noone will take this economy seriously anymore.

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Scrublordington the III
Posted · Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given

Yes, lets Price everything like buds were 12 keys!

Let's ignore the fact keys only rised and buds only dropped due to the rich kids with the 1000s of ref idle account bot nets. Now: time to reprice our hats, raising their value by 200 percent, it's about stopping the rich kids bps to drop in key worth - I wondered how long it would take.

I mean, hey - all it cost you was the trust of everyone with a brain. The prices might be suggested by community members, but the things getting accepted follow the will of admins.

Cheers, you did it. Now noone will take this economy seriously anymore.

 

Who are you to say that the mods are screwing up the economy and not working hard to try to fix the pricing in buds. Yes, the change in currency has its flaws but people are working to sort that out.

 

Keys are always rising simply because of random weapon drops. As more and more ref comes into the game, and without an use, it's price goes down, and in turn keys go up. Buds have always been dropping too.

 

I don't see you coming up with any ideas that can help the current situation

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Utsoob

When buds rise for sales, this thing is going to go bust. 

 

Oh well, what do I know, I don't have a fancy purple square.

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♥Sel♥ <☼>
Posted · Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given

I see people act like the last month of pricing did not happen, I see bps rise by 40-50% due to this change without any reason. Low tiers could go for less than 20 keys, suddenly suggestions for 38 keys for those hats are soon to be accepted. It is bizarre.

What should be done is let buds go to hell until noone even cares anymore, let keys rise to heaven, let people farm ref (no, it's not just new players crafting metal, not in this count, don't lie to yourself). Just let it flow until it crashes at some point or let it go on forever. It is the market, without manpulation.

When buds were 20 keys keys were 2,77 ref. now buds are 7-8 keys and keys are 19 ref, buds are not the problem, ref is. Just solving the situation by decidig over the heads of 90% of the community makes this whole website nothing but a joke. Of course everyone with an unusual is happy about it, who would not be if their hat is suddenly worth twice as much. But this is not how an economy works. There is money involved here.

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Scrublordington the III
Posted · Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given

I see people act like the last month of pricing did not happen, I see bps rise by 40-50% due to this change without any reason. Low tiers could go for less than 20 keys, suddenly suggestions for 38 keys for those hats are soon to be accepted. It is bizarre.

What should be done is let buds go to hell until noone even cares anymore, let keys rise to heaven, let people farm ref (no, it's not just new players crafting metal, not in this count, don't lie to yourself). Just let it flow until it crashes at some point or let it go on forever. It is the market, without manpulation.

When buds were 20 keys keys were 2,77 ref. now buds are 7-8 keys and keys are 19 ref, buds are not the problem, ref is. Just solving the situation by decidig over the heads of 90% of the community makes this whole website nothing but a joke. Of course everyone with an unusual is happy about it, who would not be if their hat is suddenly worth twice as much. But this is not how an economy works. There is money involved here.

 

Just because something is priced at one number, doesn't necessarily mean that some person will want to pay that amount because it was half the price yesterday. Just wait a few weeks until everything is sorted out

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♥Sel♥ <☼>
Posted · Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given
Hidden by polar, April 1, 2015 - No reason given

Just because something is priced at one number, doesn't necessarily mean that some person will want to pay that amount because it was half the price yesterday. Just wait a few weeks until everything is sorted out

 

You know just as well as me which influence this websites pricing has on everything. Bible.tf. But hey, i should stop pointing out the obvious for the blinds, might get banned for the truth.

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knavesmith

When buds rise for sales, this thing is going to go bust. 

 

Oh well, what do I know, I don't have a fancy purple square.

Why would buds rise during sales? People will probably be selling keys on the SCM way more than buds. If anything, its price on the SCM would drop during a sale.

 

Unless you meant after the sale. Then that would be a very good question.

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Jacobmeister

Thank you for clearing this up - without a doubt, it'll be harder to provide values for items with the temporary removal of buds as currency, so this really helps :)

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Timmy The Darn Danger

There should be no more useless threads after this one!

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Timmy The Darn Danger

Polar, how come bp values are still priced in buds

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d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Am I the only one who think high tier unusuals are stupid with 1000+ key values?

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zirune

(1) Be VERY careful using hats priced > TWO MONTHS old as proof in any suggestion under any context whether it's a MAIN suggestion or being used as a MINI.

Rationale for this:

Buds were ~15 keys 3 months ago and using hats priced when buds were 15 keys is going to be really problematic when using as proof in new suggestions. The vast majority of those hats are insanely inflated. Values of most hats are most reasonable when buds were ~10-13 keys in value. And that range stretches from February 1 to last week. Those suggestions are probably closest representations to actual hat values, so that's why I'm using two months as the general cutoff you should keep in mind. Does this mean we will close suggestions using hats with 2-3 month old prices as proof? Not automatically. But PLEASE USE COMMON SENSE. If the hat you are using as proof is listed at 1000 keys with current b/os of 600 keys, you should obviously realize that the hat is way outdated even though the price is not more than 3 months old. 

 

So you agree with me that giving old prices a key value of 10-13 keys per bud would be more accurate...

 

Why is the site using prices of buds at the time of sale instead?

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polar

So you agree with me that giving old prices a key value of 10-13 keys per bud would be more accurate...

 

Why is the site using prices of buds at the time of sale instead?

 

It's realistically closer to 10-12 keys. A couple of reasons why:

 

(1) Whatever number we'd take would be arbitrary. Could easily be called out for "manipulation" and we wouldn't really be able to justify it. 

(2) Hats >3 months old are outdated and need to be updated anyways. Which means that most hats that are "updated" in the last 3 months are actually pretty close. There just a few that are near the 3 month mark that are still inflated, but most are actually pretty close. For outdated hats, people will update them as usual like we always have at a rate of ~16% of hats per month. Will take about 3 months to get back to status quo which is about how much time it will take for the dust to settle and for people to recalibrate anyways. 

 

For the record, we did ask Brad to make it 10-12. But it was his decision to go with the original pricing.

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