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Complaint, and wonder how true your website really is


KingOfHeart

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http://backpack.tf/vote/id/520225b34bd7b8b57200001b

Take a close look at this suggestions and the proof he provided

 

The 2nd and 3rd selling link is the same user, and his desc sucks..not that surprised it didn't sell that great.

The 5th sold link was a month old..why would anyone accept this as proof?

There was barely any 26 key unsold proof, and barely any 25 key unsold proof.

Lastly, if you're going by the vote account, not surprised it had a high percentage. There's many who want to buy a strange gunslinger so of course they are going to upvote it.

 

Was it a simple mistake or do mods rarely check the proof and depend souly on users to make most of the decisions in the end?

 

If I go and dig up a bunch of traders that show traders selling for less over a month's time(and posting a few unsold traders because they don't bump or rarely online), and many users upvote it, will it be accepted?..I hope not! Otherwise this will be exploited. :(

 

edit: I can accept mistakes easily...so no worries if that's the case

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If mods went solely off of votes, every key suggestion would be closed. Anyways, keep in mind that the mods are only human, who can make mistakes.

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^ why leave it when I already got a new suggestion passed and already sold my Strange Gunslinger for 26 keys multiple times

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backpack.tf seems to be conservative, trade.tf on the other hand is showing a median price under 24 keys since July 10 (yes, over a month ago) - http://www.trade.tf/price/142/11

 

Just going to leave this here:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13449107

Thanks, Brad.

I just check out trade.tf and that site is pretty beast!

That kind of real time price update might drive backpack out of business :P. assuming they perfect their accuracy overtime.

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The amount of utterly incorrect things you say is hilarious.

In case no one ever told you, you sir are you're a scholar and a gentleman. 

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In case no one ever told you, you sir are you're a scholar and a gentleman.

I don't care if people laugh at me for the stupid things I say. This is the internet, and if he cannot figure out that trade.tf shows quicksell prices by smashing sells and buys, sucks to be him.
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The amount of utterly incorrect things you say is hilarious.

Well, you don't have to a real douche and condescending about it. What I ever did you to?

 

I just try out trade.tf today and I got excited about the new features they offered.

You want to prove to me that they are terrible, you can leave a link of a previous discussion or explain here instead of insulting me....

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Well, you don't have to a real douche and condescending about it. What I ever did you to?

 

I just try out trade.tf today and I got excited about the new features they offered.

You want to prove to me that they are terrible, you can leave a link of a previous discussion or explain here instead of insulting me....

trade.tf shows the median price of all trades involving said item. Not only does it take normal solds for pure and items, it takes quickbuys, which do not dictate the price as well, therefore having a lower price for a majority of items. This is why a key was frozen in certain prices while it could quickly sold for one or two scrap more. There are other things trade.tf does not look into, such as duped items (maxes, vints) and at times has problems with items that are usable, as was the case with painting sets and pallets.
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Yea, I do notice that some of their price for certain items are lower than what I see in market. For example, the strange gunslinger that we are talking about here is priced at 25-26 in Backpack. I am able to sell mine quickly at 25 key, even though trade.tf said the median price is 24 key. While my case alone can't prove their pricing is wrong, it still make me suspicious. 

There are many things that can result in their inaccuracy: scanning issues, software issues, samples sizes, calculation methods, gifted/dirty items and etc. However, I don't think quicksell can be consider as inaccuracy. In stocks and commodity trading, they take into account of every trade to calculate the ticker price every moment. Granted that major stocks have a lot volume, which mean one big panicking traders cashing out won't crash the price. Even if one big cash out lower the price, the effect is only temporary if the market sentiment is still the same. These kind of sales are ignore in Backpack because accepted prices remain from a few days to weeks. A distorted temporary lower price from "quick sellers" will give a false impression of the market for days and weeks. This is not a issues on trade.tf because they update every day (I think), their price represent what is going on in that day. If people are quick or panic selling  that day, they should represent that. If market restore the next day, the price will go back up and return to normal. I love this accurate presentation, and they actually look eerie similar to real stock. 

 

However, their prices have some mismatch with the market on Classified and outpost. I have yet figure out the cause or who is actually right here. If you can direct me to a previous major debate or discussion, I will love to read it. Nevertheless, I believe trade.tf will improve overtime as they show a lot potential already.

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Yea, I do notice that some of their price for certain items are lower than what I see in market.

 

All sellers want to sell for profit. Of course they will try to sell higher than a spreadsheet price. Prices are based on the most common transaction price, not the most common price for unsold trades.

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Yea, I do notice that some of their price for certain items are lower than what I see in market. For example, the strange gunslinger that we are talking about here is priced at 25-26 in Backpack. I am able to sell mine quickly at 25 key, even though trade.tf said the median price is 24 key. While my case alone can't prove their pricing is wrong, it still make me suspicious. 

So you're able to quickly sell yours for the low end of backpack.tf price. How exactly does that prove that backpack.tf is wrong? 

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So you're able to quickly sell yours for the low end of backpack.tf price. How exactly does that prove that backpack.tf is wrong? 

Err. I was not really discussion backpack.tf in my post. I was referring to trade.tf. 

In that personal example, I was able to sell higher than trade.tf price, so I was suspicious of trade.tf. 

Don't think that I am some kind of trade.tf supporter. I am still figuring out how they work.

 

 

All sellers want to sell for profit. Of course they will try to sell higher than a spreadsheet price. Prices are based on the most common transaction price, not the most common price for unsold trades.

 

Of course. Please look into Strange Gunslinger to better understand what we are talking about here.

Trade.tf gunslinger median price is 23-24 keys, up and down daily. 

Backpack price is 25- 26 keys. I can see a few on sale for 25 keys on Classified and outpost, and I personally sold one for 25 keys. 

This make me wonder how trade.tf get that very low pricing.

I got a theory after thinking about it last night. After working it out, I will write it tonight.

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This make me wonder how trade.tf get that very low pricing.

I got a theory after thinking about it last night. After working it out, I will write it tonight.

Its simple. Think about anyone who flips Strange Gunslingers. They're going to sell it for 25-26 keys, so to make it worth their while they're going to need to pay around 20 keys. Its the same reason why they're key prices are usually lower than what keys easily sell for. There are tons of people who flip keys, and a lot of buy keys with metal, then sell for cash. It ends up being the abundance of quickbuyers that drags the price down. Which is where the huge error with trade.tf lies--they factor in quicksells. 

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Its simple. Think about anyone who flips Strange Gunslingers. They're going to sell it for 25-26 keys, so to make it worth their while they're going to need to pay around 20 keys. Its the same reason why they're key prices are usually lower than what keys easily sell for. There are tons of people who flip keys, and a lot of buy keys with metal, then sell for cash. It ends up being the abundance of quickbuyers that drags the price down. Which is where the huge error with trade.tf lies--they factor in quicksells. 

 

It seem we don't share the same definition of quick sellers. In my previous examples, I was referring to people who believe their items are value lower than backpack price and willing to sell it cheaper than other. 

I based them off real world stock traders, who often change their mind on stock value moment by moment. 

However, one important elements exist in tf2 trading that don't exist in stocks or your malls. Bartering 

Instead of being force to use cash to buy everything, you can offer your items instead. However, some value of the offered item is lost because sellers take in transaction cost of selling the item. 

For example, if someone offered Strange Gunslingers and its market value is truly 25 keys, I will accept it as 23- 24 value because I have to spend effort to resell it. 

If enough transactions are done this way, it will significantly lower the median trade value of Strange Gunslingers, and thus the result on trade.tf.

I believe these are the people you call "quick sellers" 

 

Now, this beg the question that should these transaction be consider as legitimate and effect the price? 

I though no at first, but after some thinking and researching, I realize they should. 

Unlike real life pawn shop that had to spend money on shops, market, and ads, tf2 players almost have no cost setting up shops and start selling items .

Thus, almost anyone can start selling their unwanted items. Unless they are really lazy, they have no reason to pay someone 5-25% to seller. 

The only reason why people will offer their item as lower value is because they can't sell it well at "backpack's market price."

Should their transaction be ignore because they don't agree with the market price? I think not. 

As a result, trade.tf could potentially represent the real market sentiment day by day. 

 

Nevertheless, I still want to point out that backpack does a good job representing the average price of the week or month, but trade.tf does better job showing short term price and market trend. 

Finally, note how items with price trending up have higher price on trade.tf and vice versa. 

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It seem we don't share the same definition of quick sellers. In my previous examples, I was referring to people who believe their items are value lower than backpack price and willing to sell it cheaper than other. 

I based them off real world stock traders, who often change their mind on stock value moment by moment. 

However, one important elements exist in tf2 trading that don't exist in stocks or your malls. Bartering 

Instead of being force to use cash to buy everything, you can offer your items instead. However, some value of the offered item is lost because sellers take in transaction cost of selling the item. 

For example, if someone offered Strange Gunslingers and its market value is truly 25 keys, I will accept it as 23- 24 value because I have to spend effort to resell it. 

If enough transactions are done this way, it will significantly lower the median trade value of Strange Gunslingers, and thus the result on trade.tf.

I believe these are the people you call "quick sellers" 

 

Now, this beg the question that should these transaction be consider as legitimate and effect the price? 

I though no at first, but after some thinking and researching, I realize they should. 

Unlike real life pawn shop that had to spend money on shops, market, and ads, tf2 players almost have no cost setting up shops and start selling items .

Thus, almost anyone can start selling their unwanted items. Unless they are really lazy, they have no reason to pay someone 5-25% to seller. 

The only reason why people will offer their item as lower value is because they can't sell it well at "backpack's market price."

Should their transaction be ignore because they don't agree with the market price? I think not. 

As a result, trade.tf could potentially represent the real market sentiment day by day. 

 

Nevertheless, I still want to point out that backpack does a good job representing the average price of the week or month, but trade.tf does better job showing short term price and market trend. 

Finally, note how items with price trending up have higher price on trade.tf and vice versa. 

The issue though is, that 23-24 key sales really aren't quicksells. For one, a lot of people think if they can't sell it within a day, then the price is wrong and needs to drop, which simply isn't true. Also, a lot of people value items differently, and they value paint/parts differently. So, while trade.tf may value it at 23-24 keys, the seller could easily value it at 25-26+

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Its simple. Think about anyone who flips Strange Gunslingers. They're going to sell it for 25-26 keys, so to make it worth their while they're going to need to pay around 20 keys. Its the same reason why they're key prices are usually lower than what keys easily sell for. There are tons of people who flip keys, and a lot of buy keys with metal, then sell for cash. It ends up being the abundance of quickbuyers that drags the price down. Which is where the huge error with trade.tf lies--they factor in quicksells. 

 

 

Ur statement keys is not true.  It is also not true what is being said quickbuys being part of the median price.  Extreme exchanges r removed from the data but closer quickbuys may not be.  Lets say someone wants to flip fast.  Places an offer to buy S gunny at 23 and than sells at 25 or has received a S gunslinger as payment for an unusual.  They sell it at less than list because they factored for item overpay knowing they would quicksell for pure.  I sold a S Caber like this recently (for around 8 keys).  I care more about what I get for my unusuals than the items and will factor that in when someone pays with items.  Yes I could get more but pure is important to have on hand when quickbuying unusuals.  The hat is where the bigger margin is.

 

My caber trade was probably not open long enough for it to be used as proof but could have been registered by trade.tf.

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Ur statement keys is not true.  It is also not true what is being said quickbuys being part of the median price.  Extreme exchanges r removed from the data but closer quickbuys may not be.  Lets say someone wants to flip fast.  Places an offer to buy S gunny at 23 and than sells at 25 or has received a S gunslinger as payment for an unusual.  They sell it at less than list because they factored for item overpay knowing they would quicksell for pure.  I sold a S Caber like this recently (for around 8 keys).  I care more about what I get for my unusuals than the items and will factor that in when someone pays with items.  Yes I could get more but pure is important to have on hand when quickbuying unusuals.  The hat is where the bigger margin is.

 

My caber trade was probably not open long enough for it to be used as proof but could have been registered by trade.tf.

I do not think overpayment for unusuals is taken as trade.tf does not document it.

 

You also quicksold that caber. Therefore it is not the amount a person could sell if for and therefore not the price.

 

Cud u plz nt use such weird abrvs. Hu nos wut a gunny is?

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^ why leave it when I already got a new suggestion passed and already sold my Strange Gunslinger for 26 keys multiple times

make a counter suggestion

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I do not think overpayment for unusuals is taken as trade.tf does not document it.

 

You also quicksold that caber. Therefore it is not the amount a person could sell if for and therefore not the price.

 

Cud u plz nt use such weird abrvs. Hu nos wut a gunny is?

 

 

 

My apologies.  I am often on my mobile so I cut many words short. 

 

Trade.tf could document them on some level but can't document the effect.   My point was not about unusual sales.  The point was that there are degrees of quickselling.  Trade.tf is designed to kick out trades that are outliers to the norm or an extreme.  It is important to have a grasp of norm for a given item.  Was 8 keys a quicksell for the caber or would it have been considered close enough, statistically, to be part of trade.tf's range.  You would need to see the data to know the answer.  Many here continue to say that trade.tf uses quickbuys in its data and that may or may not be true depending on the item and the data at the time it was recorded.

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