Cold War II

[DiamondHavoc.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_II

 

The crisis in Ukraine is escalating. America is unsure if they should arm the Ukrainian rebels or stay out. Various vehicles, armed forces and more are being sent by NATO and Russia to borders of Ukraine.

 

Some think that Cold War II could start very soon if we are not careful.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Vaccinated Autist]

United Nations.

[DiamondHavoc.]

United Nations.

 

Thanks you, for expressing your views on this matter with two simple words associated with the discussion.

[puddingkip]

Not going to happen. Putin can say whatever he wants, he can't sell a full scale war (cold or hot) to his voters. "restoring" the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine is all fine and dandy but he's not going to get away with a full war on America/Europe.

And Obama/the US can threaten him all they want, there is no way in hell they're going to be able to sell an aggressive war vs. Putin.

And Russia is far too important a trade partner and a gas/oil supplier for the Eu. We can threaten and boycot bits of him, but we're not going to war.

[TacoDip]

Cold war wasn't an actual was if I'm correct, just a bunch of propaganda and threats.

[♛ AlphaOmega ♛]

Cold war wasn't an actual was if I'm correct, just a bunch of propaganda and threats.

Yea...there wont be a war but a cold war is possible.

[puddingkip]

Cold war wasn't an actual was if I'm correct, just a bunch of propaganda and threats.

And quite a few proxy wars

Vietnam

Korea

Afghanistan

Angola

And some more. It wasn't peaceful, just never an official war

[RageofFir]

I can see a war coming, with the leaders in Washington doing the things they are doing, I bet Putin can push that domino

[λngelღмander]

Obama is not going to do anything to stop putin, and without the united state's backing, I doubt anything will come of it, no nation cares enough. It's not a genocide or anything, just an invasion of sorts, I'm sure nothing like a second cold war is going to occur.

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

(gunna get alot of shit for this)

 

For some reason i have a fondness of 1945-1991 histories, so i'm phased on whether to hope for CW2 (So i can experience the tension [No i'm not going to war]) or to back away from it and continue living in nostalgia at CW1, which I wasn't alive to enjoy

[Grimes]

The Cold War never really ended, US/Russian relations have never recovered. IMO the US has to do something... Maybe more sanctions?

[Langweenee]

Last time I recall Russia is getting fucked finacialy. If there was ever going to be another CW, it wouldn't be anytime soon since Russia can't build an army off of nothing.

[A Cyan Stone in Mustard]

Last time I recall Russia is getting fucked finacialy. If there was ever going to be another CW, it wouldn't be anytime soon since Russia can't build an army off of nothing.

 

China and North Korea are Russia's allies. Russia still has an army, it's not like it doesn't exist, and China has a pretty powerful one. North Korea has a big one too.

[Grimes]

China and North Korea are Russia's allies.

 

wat

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

wat

 

Since the end of the Korean War, China and USSR, being Communist partied with N. Korea because they were also Communist, and has remained that way since.

 

I would've thought Russia slashed relations with NKorea when they dissolved the USSR in 1991

[Tats]

Planning for the February 2014 Coup D'Etat in Kiev started in March 2013 (or earlier).

This amazing speech in Ukraine's Rada (Parliament) details how 300 people, under the direction of the US Embassy in Kiev, were to mobilize and manipulate social media in order to provoke protests that would lead to a Coup to oust Yanukovych and then start a Civil War.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9hOl8TuBUM&feature=youtu.be

 

This speech was made on 20th November 2013, i.e. the day before the sudden suspension of talks with the EU.

[Fenrir]

idk but your sig is fucking cute

[>Sneaks]

I'm kinda hoping for a Soviet Reunion. We could always call in Snake to handle the situation.

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

Soviet Reunion

 

Liking coz dose words

[>Sneaks]

Liking coz dose words

Relevant:

[Keroro1454]

The issue here is that most leaders are still tackling it with the idea that Putin understands a risk/reward scenario. As we're seeing from the "cease-fire", this isn't quite the case. He is attempting to maintain his autocratic rule, and re-create a proud U.S. rival that is similar to the Soviet Union. He is ready to sacrifice his citizens' needs to further this cause. Sanctions and economic turmoil seem to only serve as a further aggarvater. Honestly, the more this goes on, the more worried I get. This is essentially a Kim Jong Un with nukes. I can't say I have the political knowledge to say what needs to be done, but a show of force in Ukraine now will likely make-or-break the situation.

[Tats]

Economic sanctions both affect european and russian economies, but rather more europeans. While the commercial exchanges between the European Union and the Russian Federation have decreased, the commercial exchanges between the United States and the Russian Federation have increased in the same proportion. United States are trying to push the European Union in war against Russia although it is not in the interest of european populations. Vladimir Putin would like to develop privileged relationships with european countries but United States governments want to keep their hand on Europe. NATO and European Union are international organizations created by the US to control Europe.

 

The war in Ukraine is a consequence of the Orange Revolution perpetrated by US special agents. The former president of Ukraine is Ianoukovitch and he was ejected because he refused to sign the Association agreement between Ukraine and European Union. A coup was organized by the US embassy in Ukraine to take control and establish a new pro US-European leader. The democratic elections were just about staging and setting a "democratic" decor. Eastern ukrainians couldn't participate to the election. Poroshenko is a dictator that obeys to US interests and is genociding the russian-speaking ukrainians. They shell eastern Ukraine and civil populations and perpetrated war crimes. They used depleted uranium. Western ukrainians are forced to fight against other ukrainians. Kiev government pays with european and american fundings mercenaries to fight against Novorussia because the Kiev regular army is facing numerous defections. The cold war is warming up in Ukraine because United States want to destroy all opposition to their suprematy in the World but Russia and russian allies are on their way.

[Splat]

Most westerners simply don't understand that Putin has the popular vote and most Russians like him a lot. They don't realise that Russian morale and thus morale for Putin's dear leadership is rising BECAUSE he is planning on invading Ukraine. Basic American/Western ideology is that democracy is okay as long as it suits them...

[Tats]

I am not sure Vladimir Putin is planning to invade Ukraine as independentists are doing the job. Kiev government is weak and is going to last as long as it is supported financially by the US and EU. Putin has just to bend to collect the scraps, it's a question of time. Ukraine is a crime-inducing puppet used by US against Russia, they seek an occasion to declare war against Russia. Syria is all about the same thing but occidental countries failed to take control of Syria.The best solution for the US is to push European Union in a war where both europeans and russians will neutralize each other : economically, or/and military. They may use false flag attacks against nuclear power station or anything. US leaders are criminals, european leaders are betrayers, citizens from western countries have to awaken to avoid the worst.

[Keroro1454]

Okay...conspiracy theories aside (U.S. controls teh world? Our leaders are criminals? Did you just go and take a article from a Russian newspaper, because I'm getting that propaganda vibe). Firstly, are the rebels actually independents? Russia sounds like a Syria (No, we aren't using chemical weapons. Oh those, uh...those aren't ours. They're...uh...someone else's?), its been brutally clear at this point that the rebels are being helped (If not yet through manpower, although that may be false) by Russia. There is satellite imaging showing missile trucks leaving Russia, into Ukraine. It started as just "training exercises", and has gotten more blatant with each day.

 

Next up, Ukraine is our puppet. You mean we help them? Oh wait, we haven't even begun to send arms or military weaponry or technology. We have sent aid, that is all. We are protecting our own interests in the process, but the thing is our interests consist of preventing Putin from resurrecting a patchwork Soviet Union in order to maintain his own autocratic rule and make the people of Russia think he is a great leader, even if he makes them go hungry (Very much so a less-exaggerated Kim Jong Un).

 

As for us wanting to declare war on Russia, you do understand that is the worst and last option of U.S. leaders? That they will do anything to avoid? That's akin to saying J.F.K. wanted to go to war with Russia and escalate the Cold War. No one wants a thermonuclear war, because U.S. leaders want to protect their citizens, i.e. not have nukes raining on them.

 

Oh boy, here's a doozy. The U.S. is pushing the EU into war with Russia. Again, war with Russia is by no means a good idea. At most, the U.S.'s ideal would be to defuse Russia's volatile behavior, integrate it into a more civilized ideology, and potentially reform its communist ideas, along with removing its corrupt leaders by means of educating the citizens to their own plight and as such improve living conditions for them. This benefits not only Russia, but the world (No massive nuclear threat, a dependable trading partner, and an ally). War is a messy business, not one people normally want to go into, but Russia threatens that idea. I'll get into that in a bit, just hold onto the concept.

 

Okay, Syria. The objective of Syria was simple. Remove the brutal dictatorship of Assad, and introduce a stable, democratic government that will be able to give all its citizens rights, and also stabilize the region, preventing the growth of terrorist sects (This was before ISIS, but it holds even more true now). However, due to a reluctance to send in troops and inadequete aid, along with infighting among the rebel sects and terrorists and finally a powerful resistance by Assad, the West and Europe were incapable of overthrowing Assad and the country has devolved further. Libya, Iraq, etc. showed what the West and Europe was trying for, but due to a resistance by some natives and terrorist groups, these goals were simply too costly and ended falling apart, not least thanks to corruption among the new leaders.

 

"The best solution for the US is to push European Union in a war where both Europeans and Russians will neutralize each other : economically, or/and military" - a) Please phrase your argument in a manner that is more grammatically correct. Since I've covered why the U.S. doesn't want to get into a war, let me discuss what sanctions are, since their purpose seems to be mixed up to you. Sanctions are a method of "punishment" that countries employ when other countries are breaking international laws or threatening the safety of the country imposing the sanctions. They provide a way for countries to get their point across powerfully, but without any loss of life. They have been crippling to Russia, especially since European nations have joined the U.S. in imposing them about Russia. This is not America being manipulative, because while I'm positive the President had implored that European countries, they imposed them by themselves, when they determined the economic risk was worth it. Sanctions are a risk/reward, and countries such as Germany have showed clearly that the U.S. isn't forcing everyone into it. Also, sanctions usually are effective, but when leaders such as Putin are stubborn, they are willing to let their citizens suffer under prolonged sanctions in order to further their agenda.

 

Nuclear war is not a false flag. Russia has nukes, plain and simple.

 

U.S. leaders are criminals- No. Please, I get people don't like Obama, I'm no fan myself. But that is ridiculous, unwarranted, and unbased.

Europeans are traitors- Traitors to whom, exactly? Do you mean because they don't have a viscious and unfounded hatred to America, Europeans are traitors? Because if so, you should probably re-evaluate your knowledge on the U.S. It is a super-power, thus a) It is beneficial to be friends with us, and We live in a day and age where diplomacy is crucial, allies even more so. Communication has improved, and we no longer live in a time where countries hate their competition. Both the U.S. and Europe protect their interests, but will compromise if it means furthering a greater good, i.e. world peace.

 

Awaken to what? That sounds vaguely along the lines of a "Better watch yo step 'Merica, if you don't want punishment". Of course, that mentality works well in Russian propaganda, but not in practice. Russia could do serious damage. On the other hand, the U.S. could effectively wipe it off the maps. But that leads me to my point about Putin. He is okay with war. It makes him look like a glorious leader, and thus he maintains a popular standing with the people and holds his position. He wishes to propagate a greater empire, and is thus a serious danger to world stability, not to mention his alliance with China is highly troubling. Imagine Russia as a charging bull, and Putin is the head. Sanctions, a crumbling economy, and the overall slowdown and crumbling of its communist ideology's success are like the rest of the world shooting arrows at it. When these arrows hit, the bull is enraged further and keeps charging, with the head telling the body "Keep running, we're almost going to hit 'em". I can't say I know what the "headshot arrow" that brings the bull down or what will tame it. But cowering in a corner is certainly not the answer.

 

Please, Tats, read this. I know its a TL;DR, but I can't say I will take a response seriously unless you seriously consider what I've written here.