bp.tf suggestors and moderation is poor lately.

[♫ MoPcKo cBuH4e :d]

100% agree with what d0 said. I find it sad that top suggestors (suggestors that make many suggestions) quit bp.tf beacuse of the sloppy work of suggestors and mods. I was going to get back to suggestions as I mentoned but now I don't feel like it. Seeing how suggestions get accepted with like 1 link for low-end or almost no proof at all... Old bp.tf that I remember wasn't like that. In those times suggestions like that was closed. Now if "the votes are positive" the suggestion have higher chance to get accepted even if there is not enough proof. And people seems to upvote most of the suggestions. If things don't change I won't get back. Hate to say it but as I said to d0 "I loved making suggestions but bp.tf is just not the same anymore".

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

We saw this with Giang just posting the pontless 'link-to-another suggestion' suggestion, which gets accepted anyway, then others started doing it too

 

I still put effort into my suggestions, at least there is that

[emilights.com]

The system of moderating and price suggesting should be simplified and modified to cater with the challenges.

 

Less weighing on Outpost there are no valid screenshots of items being traded anyway (as we mostly depends on completed / non-completed indicator). Generally we are facing a 0.33-0.66 deviation from precision already. Assuming "paretto" 80% of trades are confirmed even though buyer asked for price bargain. Meaning I agree with non-perfect/precise pricing as long as they are updated at least 1 month or so.

 

SCM (given conversion formula on 'how to suggest price' should be easy and convenient)

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

The system of moderating and price suggesting should be simplified and modified to cater with the challenges. Less weighing on Outpost there are no valid screenshots of items being traded anyway (as we mostly depends on completed / non-completed indicator). Generally we are facing a 0.33-0.66 deviation from precision already. Assuming "paretto" 80% of trades are confirmed even though buyer asked for price bargain. Meaning I agree with non-perfect/precise pricing as long as they are updated at least 1 month or so. SCM (given conversion formula on 'how to suggest price' should be easy and convenient)

Not true, history tell different and you can probably tell by a few sales by confirming via bp.tf history. Outpost users must have a public profile so some of the lower items should be pretty easy to track down and get a grip of a reasonable price. 1month update isn't reasonable for some stable items. Unusuals got 3months - and I don't think non-unusual ever need that.

 

@other, I'm saying more detailed and explained proof in a way if it's unclear. A good example is polar's advice and counter/add proof -- usually a few lines with personal input & links to back up/counter the suggestion. Obv, many suggestions are pretty self-explaining and we don't need to post "yes this is good price, buyers/sales and all looks legit/valid". But all suggestions that aren't fully clear or got a fairly low percent voting should always be double-checked and make clear with some research from mods/other users if the suggestion is valid even tho some stuff might not be 100% clear by just looking at the suggestion made by OP.

It's a FACT dropping items got a HIGHER upvote ratio then the other way around.

I usually get 90-99% on dropping stuff and even down to 65-80%+ on increasing an item. Even tho the increase is the most clear one ever with quickbuyers above the current price so it's a much needed price update. But people tend to just blind upvote/downvote stuff and that is very clear when it comes to me and polar. Mentioning d0/polar first in a suggestion or bold it somewhere and stuff is increasing the potential upvotes and supporters to the suggestion/suggestor.

 

Percentage on a suggestion has been close to useless or not important due to the fact if a sale or something is wrong, it's declined regardless of the votes. I made one unusual suggestion and got a sale wrong, 100% votes still closed because I screwed up. I didn't complain nor think anyone should if something is invalid. I just feel it's a poor excuse to accept more suggestion if "well it got a fair amount of upvotes" from potential inexperianced users. It's a great way to understand and let people state their opinions and all but shouldn't be such a high factor to a suggestion -- Even if it's a scrap, a reclaimed or key.

 

Compared to before, decimals and close to perfect was a must for unusuals - I think rounding is fine and I tend to spread that and always tell people it's actually a good thing, which I believe. But "well it's just .33" and "fair enough" along with unbumped low end sellers is kinda overwhelming lately, it's a trend where "well that suggestion got accepted with bad proof, this should 2".

 

Not to mention Bucket, Woifi and I believe some other was pretty strong against very low changes. i.e 3 to 2.88, or 2.88-3 was out of the question. Nowdays we update .1key decimals on a lot of items that barely sell (i.e collector's) and it comes to a level where it's farming rep & bad reputation by not giving the 100% most accurate price of an item.

[Jacobmeister]

It's a huge workload for the mods, who are basically volunteers. If we had more of them, then you can get away with a higher amount of quality control, right

[cares]

It's a huge workload for the mods, who are basically volunteers. If we had more of them, then you can get away with a higher amount of quality control, right

 

The mods get a part of the donations.

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

It's a huge workload for the mods, who are basically volunteers. If we had more of them, then you can get away with a higher amount of quality control, right

I always get upset when I see people who volunteer for something and don't get enough respect/appreciation they deserve, but hell if someone is doing a crap job or not good enough they should take it as feedback and not as bullying or something. Just like the dota2.bp.tf, was crap -- Yet I spend a lot of time helping, together we can fix things and make it better. :-D

[The Recluse]

polar is without question the best person I have ever encountered in tf2 in 6 years

 

that is all i have to contribute

[Randy The Shpee Of Nigeria]

My only issue with suggestions with very little proof being accepted is that while the classifieds link the user gives may show. It isnt the amount of proof needed and my issue is that user receives false hope that " Yay my suggestion got passed when i only gave a classifieds link and a screenshot of 1 low range link". It doesn't give them the correct state of mind that they must provide multiple links to actually show and reflect what the item is really worth on the market. While yes the 1 link did provide was correct it should not deem them the right to get it accepted especially when the votes behind it, which again are from all of us are telling them " no you did not provide proof and have to find more".  

 

It just annoys me how suggestors who don't even try get off with a free accepted suggestion. Yet, also you gotta take in the account that what matter's more, a lot of shit suggestions accepted with little to no proof? Or less suggestions accepted while the people who made them put the time into making them and the quality of suggestions so others may follow by example. But no one can follow by example when rules are broken and proofless suggestions get accepted. 

 

Now you can ignore or agree with what i said above but after being around the tf2 community for almost a full 2 years now, this is how i see bp now as before mods were more strict on what a good suggestion and what is not.

 

Welp das all from me now let my signature stare into your soul :3 

 

Edit - Forgot to mention something. On a thread like this where there obviously is some conflict why is polar the only one standing up for the mods? Where are the rest of the mods stating their views on these problems.

[♠Derpeh♤]

 

We comment when we go against the votes. I just don't see why we are expected to comment to justify anything when the votes are positive and the range is accurate. For anyone who questions it, just look at the market. And if you feel the range is NOT accurate, make a counter.

 

I think d0 is mainly asking for mods to at least comment when approving such threads that they have done their own research

^this

 

If mods commented as to why they have decided to accept a somewhat controversial or a "crappy" suggestion it would lessen the amount of questions and accusations of manipulation (Eg the acceptance of bud suggestion when cooldown...etc)

 

Some of the newer suggesters who have been asking me to review their suggestion before they post seem to have the idea to that they just need "just enough proof" for things to be accepted...etc which leads to them linking fewer and fewer each time they ask yet still have their suggestions accepted because the mod did some of the work, think we need to do something about this... Maybe reject the suggestion if it was blatantly being lazy even if the range is correct.

 

Imo it's no point accepting a suggestion if there is crappy proof even if the range is correct, one of the positives of bp.tf is that users can see the proof and understand where the price range comes from not to be looking at the suggestion going "why was this crappy thing accepted"

[emilights.com]

Not true, history tell different and you can probably tell by a few sales by confirming via bp.tf history. Outpost users must have a public profile so some of the lower items should be pretty easy to track down and get a grip of a reasonable price. 1month update isn't reasonable for some stable items. Unusuals got 3months - and I don't think non-unusual ever need that.

 

It's a FACT dropping items got a HIGHER upvote ratio then the other way around.

I usually get 90-99% on dropping stuff and even down to 65-80%+ on increasing an item. Even tho the increase is the most clear one ever with quickbuyers above the current price so it's a much needed price update. But people tend to just blind upvote/downvote stuff and that is very clear when it comes to me and polar. Mentioning d0/polar first in a suggestion or bold it somewhere and stuff is increasing the potential upvotes and supporters to the suggestion/suggestor.

 

Compared to before, decimals and close to perfect was a must for unusuals - I think rounding is fine and I tend to spread that and always tell people it's actually a good thing, which I believe. But "well it's just .33" and "fair enough" along with unbumped low end sellers is kinda overwhelming lately, it's a trend where "well that suggestion got accepted with bad proof, this should 2".

 

Not to mention Bucket, Woifi and I believe some other was pretty strong against very low changes. i.e 3 to 2.88, or 2.88-3 was out of the question. Nowdays we update .1key decimals on a lot of items that barely sell (i.e collector's) and it comes to a level where it's farming rep & bad reputation by not giving the 100% most accurate price of an item.

 

What I said about at least a month update was very wrong. Agree on your "Facts" and sad about how "gravity" must work against a much harder type of price suggestion. 

 

Will a range pricing policy reduce the work load ? 

Something like 0.85 and 1.15 pricing for a spot price.

 

A perfectionist's value (does not mean that it's bad or wrong) should not be implemented as lack of human resources is clear.

[Merndy]

I have to say, I absolutely never see anybody(the Mods) but Polar commenting on suggestions. Very rarely do I see others comment. I have 3 mods on my friends list. Polar, Cashew, and Puddington. I most definitely find myself going to Polar, asking him either minor questions, or suggestion changing questions. I haven't asked Cashew much, and I've definitely tried asking Puddington questions. She won't answer. Ever. She'll be ingame, just got out of a game, anything. She won't answer. I only remember her answering one question before, I asked why a suggestion got accepted, and she gave a fair argument. I asked her why she had done the suggestion for the user. Heres the suggestion: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/546de3ceba8d88ab6a8b4e45 

 

Speaking of suggestions, I just had a suggestion up for the Strange Snow Sleeves to up (http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54a4c115ba8d887a6d8b47d7). Honestly, I would have definitely waited for it to get accepted/declined because Xosmin did have a point. There were a few sellers below my suggested price, but I only decided to raise it since there was not 1 on outpost at the time lower then 3 keys, and I went to add a seller, 2 hour old trade, he told me it was sold already, and since it wasn't in his backpack he obviously sold it or deleted it. To delete a ~3 key item from your backpack you'd have to be rather braindead.

 

Also, I must agree with Randy, why is it that only Polar is defending himself and his Co-workers? Why isn't any other mod pumping their views of this into this thread? It's been 3 days now, aren't mods suppose to be rather active on the forums? Atleast more than users? Anyway, if anybody has been wondering why I usually am right behind Randy, and usually agreeing with him, or vise versa, it's because we're IRL friends, who go to the same school, in the same grade with a few of the same classes. 

 

Honestly, this thread only exists, or atleast I think it only exists because people who don't understand how to take criticism want to make suggestions, and not do them correctly. They want easy respect and mere fame for low effort, and uninvolvement. They want to be involved in something they simply cannot understand and cannot be involved in. It makes the people that do make a ton of suggestions, and no, I will not include myself in that group because I only have around 70 succeeded suggestions. There are people like D0, Magenta, Aaron and Giang. These are the only 4 people I can think of off the top of my head, don't be mad if I didn't say your name. Anyway, people like them, with blackbelts or stars, whatever they're called are the people I most respect for their suggestions.

[polar]

 

If mods commented as to why they have decided to accept a somewhat controversial or a "crappy" suggestion it would lessen the amount of questions and accusations of manipulation

 

 

I think it looks more manipulative to close a suggestion that has 80% positive votes and an accurate range (even if the proof is shoddy) than it does to accept it.

 

Again, I try commenting when I can. I'm not saying I go out of my way to NOT comment. But you pick your battles when handling suggestions en masse.

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

I kinda chuckled a little bit at all the "she & her" on Michael

 

But like I said, I think doubting the mods (all of them, not just 1) is kinda disrespectful. Michael has been here forever and is probably way ahead of everyone in the entire TF2 community both trading, knowledge & prices. Cashew is the #1 amount of accepted suggestions, and the other mods keep the forum clean (Woifi, Bucket, Vincent etc). All serve a purpose and what they do is at a top level that many users will never get.

So it's pretty much what Derpeh said, confirm range/price or something if it isn't fully accurate or valid by showing sales/sellers/buyers or pointing out the stuff the suggestion is lacking. I bet Michael can defend 9 out of 10 suggestions he accepted that people question him for here. But he can be a huge troll sometime, but also super serious and very kind-- idk if he read this yet.

 

So this is not a "u shit, fix your shit" thread, more like - hotfix, add input to provide a more honest and valid suggestion. Don't be afraid to ask for resuggest if it's not a super clean suggestion, even tho votes are up to 80-90%+

 

 

I think it looks more manipulative to close a suggestion that has 80% positive votes and an accurate range (even if the proof is shoddy) than it does to accept it.

 

Again, I try commenting when I can. I'm not saying I go out of my way to NOT comment. But you pick your battles when handling suggestions en masse.

Yeah but that's not what we are saying, if it is fairly accurate then just do another quick research and point out the stuff it didn't have. Just like you do with higher tier suggestions. Do it for all suggestions that look like it doesn't have everything to support the range suggested.

[A Delicious Cashew]

Also, I must agree with Randy, why is it that only Polar is defending himself and his Co-workers? Why isn't any other mod pumping their views of this into this thread? It's been 3 days now, aren't mods suppose to be rather active on the forums? Atleast more than users? Anyway, if anybody has been wondering why I usually am right behind Randy, and usually agreeing with him, or vise versa, it's because we're IRL friends, who go to the same school, in the same grade with a few of the same classes. 

 

95% of the time, I agree fully with what polar says. But in this case, I didn't even know this link existed. I'll see if there's anything I can add later

[Merndy]

I didn't even know this link existed

 

Not shooting at you here, but, that's what I was getting at.. 

[The_Bacon_Ruler]

I don't intend to make this a "modz Suc!!1!" type of post, and my views probably aren't the most accurate, and might not even make much sense, because I am overtired, and currently at home from school sick and vomiting, I agree with most of the points brought up, a lot of suggesters these days are just throw down two random links without checking them and make a pretty proofless suggestion in two minutes, and I admit, when I get lazy, I can be one of them, but a little more fact-checking could help a lot, and mods in my opinion should take a little more of a proactive approach, like Polar here for example http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54ac4da6b98d88c43d8b4e7eeven if the votes are mostly positive or are supported by another source, like SCM, or the Classifieds, or at least make them a semi-source of valid proof on suggestions with limited Outpost links if you think they are outliers, and at least explain their thoughts on questionable decisions like accepting http://backpack.tf/vote/id/547e3dd5b88d88f0698b477d with no low end sellers or sales despite me bringing up that fact, and thought I probably should have countered it, and it was better than the price at the time, a mod probably should have closed it and made the suggester resuggest, or like http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5472172eba8d88d30b8b4f89 the low end of this being made of one guy selling for offers, not even a key, and ending up selling for the suggested high end, but no reasoning was given for why the low end was accepted, and I know both links are probably just my OCD overreacting, but as has been stated by mods on multiple occasions, backpack.tf is about giving the most accurate prices, and in both links, and in some of the links previously provided by others, this hasn't always recently been the case, and could have been helped by a more proactive approach. I give the mods kudos for moderating the forums and website so seamlessly, and with minimal pay or user support, thought another mod might not be a bad idea, potentially replacing Chief, considering how inactive he has been or a special forum only moderation team, and could help the mods be able to have more time to fine tune some of the two minute suggestions, and help with the recent large increase of troll suggestions as well, or have the mods be able to give out special small multipliers to people who they think are good proof suggesters to help them to be able to price more. (Sorry for ranting a bit XD)

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Bring

Up

My

Post

 

- Added Aaron as mod.

- Added 2 new mods 'behind the scenes'. Plax + Pudding.

 

Overall improved since I made this thread, but still on a level where I feel (non-unusual) 1 seller can control entire market because people are pushing it to the lowest possible price. Significantly changed with unusuals, even tho I feel some might be on the tip of ~meh to just a simple post telling OP to adjust range.

 

I just don't see the extra effort and posts by mods to fully support the suggestion(s) they accept instead of just accepting them and don't post anything to prove it's fine. Maybe I'm asking 2 much?

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

Bring

Up

My

Post

 

- Added Aaron as mod.

- Added 2 new mods 'behind the scenes'. Plax + Pudding.

 

Overall improved since I made this thread, but still on a level where I feel (non-unusual) 1 seller can control entire market because people are pushing it to the lowest possible price. Significantly changed with unusuals, even tho I feel some might be on the tip of ~meh to just a simple post telling OP to adjust range.

 

I just don't see the extra effort and posts by mods to fully support the suggestion(s) they accept instead of just accepting them and don't post anything to prove it's fine. Maybe I'm asking 2 much?

 

Since the creation of this thread i have started using credible logic to suggestions, as well as listing B/Os (that was way back), so, that might be a case for Unusuals

[Gent♥]

I missed this thread the first time around. I shan't make that mistake again.

Yes, backpack.tf needs to up it's game. I've, three or four times now, seen orange belts using outdated prices for unusuals. It's shoddy and it makes us look bad.

I've had perfectly good suggestions sit open to rot for two weeks then closed because they didn't reflect the market any more. Despite reflecting the market when they were made.

 

What can we do about this? Who can say.

I'd volunteer as a mod, but we know how that goes. Despite my knowledge of unusuals, as it turns out, I'm apparently pretty unprofessional, plus my suggestion output would probably be missed. If a price -and nothing else- moderator position was an option, I'd take that in a heartbeat (hint hint).

[Gol D. Roger]

 

still on a level where I feel (non-unusual) 1 seller can control entire market because people are pushing it to the lowest possible price.

 

I just don't see the extra effort and posts by mods to fully support the suggestion(s) they accept instead of just accepting them and don't post anything to prove it's fine. Maybe I'm asking 2 much?

 

I too feel that way now a days especially with aussies where price drops are happening too often. Aussies are also rare items like unusuals and deserve similar rules (like using sales to update prices) atleast for high tier aussies. It feels odd that a 10 keys unusual requires sales to update price but a 70 keys aussie just needs sellers or B/Os.

 

Example 1: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54e74a7fba8d88043b8b4577

Just one seller for each end of range but still received many positive votes (though votes doesn't matter still it shows people agree with it). Thanks to the sales provided as counter it is closed.

 

Example 2: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54eabcbeb88d8832398b4659

There was only one valid seller for low end in the proof and now both links used for low end are sold in1-2 days. I have even provided quicksell buyers as a counter but still it was accepted without any response.