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d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

bp.tf suggestors and moderation is poor lately.

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d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Personally from reviewing a few suggestions the past ~half year I've seen a dramastic change with the level of professionalism, experiance (yes I do not expect new people to know everything) and work being put into the suggestion(s) to be very very poor.

 

 

 

Some examples -

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54aa5ce3b88d8883638b50d4- close enough even tho 0 proof

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549c1c37b98d8876258b48bf- people always pushing the lowest possible price, happen so many times I can't even count.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549e5100ba8d88be138b4841- (non-unusual) Making a range of i.e 9 to 8-10. Should we consider this a price refresh or not? Because before these were strictly against the rules, now it's "meh" or "sometimes" OK, I don't see a major issues with making a range from a suggestion if it's accurate. But as long as every1 is on the same page.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/548f7dacb88d882f158b4b1c- How does pure and pure overpay work? And does overpay factor even matter that much anymore? If people (trust me I've seen 100's) ignore if the unusual they are pricing actually OFFERED on hats and no the other way around obv no overpay should be applied - Yet if they were to research fully you'd see the hat was actually offered. Some leeway and being flexible is obv fine to an extant.

 

I think most people should shut up and respect most mods trust with accepting suggestions, but some input and comments would always be nice to actually prove some suggestions still are fine (by mods doing own research/posting "SCM back this up very well" or something else -http://backpack.tf/vote/id/545b7c1cba8d889a6c8b5660http://backpack.tf/vote/id/545b9896ba8d88b00c8b5452 .. Because posting suggestions like this shouldn't even be considered. So hence why a top tier and amazing suggestor quit: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/user/3721-%E2%99%AB-mopcko-cbuh4e-d/

Would also be nice if people could stop be lazy with mini suggestions and actually make a real suggestion for a hat if it's not duped/gifted/complex etc - People tend to search for 1 sale which might not determine the "real" price of the hat. Just because they are lazy.

 

Yes, we got more suggestors and suggestions now -

17:08 - polar: eh, i've been a bit more flexible on rules to encourage more suggestions. we now have something like 15000 unusual hat-effect combos. so being stringent means that we'll never be even close to updating 50%
17:08 - polar: in the past, that number was closer to 10k. ~5k per 3 months meant ~50% updated. now we need 7.5k every 3 months. that will never happen without giving some leeway
17:13 - polar: like we've had 6000 suggestions this month. thats an insane amount
 
Yes, I understand it's a lot of time mods need to spend and a comment extra on each suggestion would make it a looot longer to accept stuff. But at least something should be mentioned by either mods or from the community when a sale/range/incorrect stuff is mentioned. Just posting "Well the hat actually got offered" or "Well, a few extra links to determine the low end/disprove high end would be nice since there's 20+ pages on outpost" is gonna make this community stronger again. Bashing and post "lol post proof retard" on suggestions wont motivate or help the suggestor really. It's essentially 95% shitposts or people how claim/spread false information.

 

 

I just think it's sad that the top tier suggestors such as Necro, Erik, MoPcKo cBuH4e and a few other got bored of putting down the effort on suggestions if most of the current one's are just crappy/poorly made but still accepted.

We just need to step up and understand there's always more stuff beyond the suggestion. You should always take critcism and feedback and re-check the links/proof/dates, because some higher tier stuff can actually be a quicksale even tho it took ~3-5days. There's a major difference between a 1-2bud price suggestion and a 10-20. Of course the higher and more complex unusuals we price, the harder it get. Leeway is obv fine for higher tier suggestions and I don't think I got any major complaints when it comes to those because they are very strict and handled very well by the mods. That's why I kinda feel we need to make that to every suggestion. Don't accept "pending" currency suggestion if they are not following the rules. Don't accept a suggestion if the recent one was made 8hours ago. bp.tf prices reflect and control the market to much already, we need to be closer to perfectionist than "welp this is fair enough" imo.

 

I just wish more people make a fully made suggestion and not 5-10% of the links from outpost, I'm not talking about "making it nice" with color and stating "unsold 5days, bumped 2hours ago" - And if it is shit or not something you feel should be priced right now. Wait. Open notepad and copy paste, that's not hard. If you don't have a sale and just randomly gonna price an item go in with the same mindgame every time - I'm gonna update an item based on ALL valid stuff I can find. Then I'm gonna base the best possible price for it from it. Not "gonna drop this cuz shit and probably a reclaimed drop from previous price cuz that happen a lot". It's making me cringe everyday to see shitty suggestions (both non and unusual) with lack of knowledge but still bash you if post any feedback and then "close enough, accepting //mods". Resuggest and accept some feedback/ask people is not bad at all, it's 99.9% better in most cases.

 

So yeah, this is actually my message to all suggestors & mods out there. Step up, re-read the rules, obey the rules, be more strict, don't be lazy, work together and fix your shit. We've all grown and become and amazing community, better than everyone probably expected before. Don't let this be a pretty good or average site. Let's continue be the top stuff and bring out the best prices. Because lately it feels we just post stuff without fully understanding if it's correct or "fair enough, yolo".

 

Not mad, just saying EACH suggestion should be reviewed better and more by all mods/suggestors and more proof (if possible).

~feel free to poke me whenever, always helping anyone for free. Also enjoy all the grammar/spelling errors, not re-reading this.

 

 

tl;dr - step up suggestions every1 and read this if u care about bp.tf and want it better.

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longdong

Your signature entertained me far more than this wall of text

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3v1lcl0n3

some supporting proof:

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54a9ef51b88d88d9648b4b68

 

both 10 ref links quicksold. for something as common as a s. shotgun he should have had more proof.

classifieds alone couldn't provide enough to lower it from 12 to 10-11

 

i just feel that a lot suggestion are accepted because it is hinted that an item can't sell for the current price,but the proof for lowering it isn't great.

 

another example,i honestly believe this would get accepted http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54a773a9ba8d88cf148b47bdif the suggestor didn't close it,even tho his proof was atrouciously un-bumped

same as http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54a49438ba8d88896d8b471aeven tho each 1 key link quikck-sold,infact the proof was rather for 1.2-1.3

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OverduePixels

And this one got accepted even though it was breaking the cooldown rule: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549dcc53b98d88b63c8b4c38

 

Mods view from the suggested price now to the highest new suggested price. The reason why that suggestion didn't break cooldown rule is because it rose 2 keys [14 keys to 16 keys (new high-end) ] However, the suggestion itself was heavily lacking proof though.

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HusKy

Mods view from the suggested price now to the highest new suggested price. The reason why that suggestion didn't break cooldown rule is because it rose 2 keys [14 keys to 16 keys (new high-end) ] However, the suggestion itself was heavily lacking proof though.

 

Check the rule again: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/4347-a-cooldown-rule-is-in-effect-for-earbuds-until-further-notice-updated-nov-18/

 

> mean of bud's value

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3v1lcl0n3

altered by 1.5 keys,should have been under cooldown

 

edit: did i mention it had horrendous proof ? 

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OverduePixels

 

I agree that it goes against the rule mods themselves have provided but from what I have seen mods lately have been accepting currency suggestions (Keys and Earbuds), the way I mentioned on my earlier post.  :mellow:

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Utsoob

Agree. Heavy Lifter is a big example of this.

 

Puddington I'm calling you out. That suggestion was garbage but you still accepted it anyway.

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OverduePixels

altered by 1.5 keys,should have been under cooldown

 

edit: did i mention it had horrendous proof ? 

 

It looks like backpack is moving backwards (The way it used to be) lately instead of forward.  :ph34r:

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polar

both 10 ref links quicksold. for something as common as a s. shotgun he should have had more proof.

classifieds alone couldn't provide enough to lower it from 12 to 10-11

 

 

I looked at the marked and the needed change was obvious. 10-11 is probably too high, if anything. Classifieds and SCM suggest that 10-11 was generous.

 

Same goes for a lot of the issues described here. A mod will look at the market. If votes are positive, some proof is provided, SCM, and classies support, we'll accept even if the proof provided isn't the strongest. It is our responsibility to try to show accurate representations of the market.

 

Frankly, CLOSING a suggestion that has positive votes and an accurate range supported by outpost, classies, and SCM is far WORSE. Pretty much all complaints here are for suggestions that were accepted with positive votes and an accurate range where the proof provided by the suggester wasn't the best.

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Slocumruls

I looked at the marked and the needed change was obvious. 10-11 is probably too high, if anything. Classifieds and SCM suggest that 10-11 was generous.

 

Same goes for a lot of the issues described here. A mod will look at the market. If votes are positive, some proof is provided, SCM, and classies support, we'll accept even if the proof provided isn't the strongest. It is our responsibility to try to show accurate representations of the market.

 

Frankly, CLOSING a suggestion that has positive votes and an accurate range supported by outpost, classies, and SCM is far WORSE. Pretty much all complaints here are for suggestions that were accepted with positive votes and an accurate range where the proof provided by the suggester wasn't the best.

I think d0 is mainly asking for mods to at least comment when approving such threads that they have done their own research

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Utsoob

I snip for space

 

Frankly, CLOSING a suggestion that has positive votes and an accurate range supported by outpost, classies, and SCM is far WORSE. Pretty much all complaints here are for suggestions that were accepted with positive votes and an accurate range where the proof provided by the suggester wasn't the best.

What about the heavy lifter uber rise some time ago? That suggestion was garbage, but got accepted anyway. That 18.45 (idk don't remember exactly) haunts me.

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OverduePixels

I think d0 is mainly asking for mods to at least comment when approving such threads that they have done their own research

 

Yes, exactly this. I have mentioned this earlier before MoPcKo cBuH4e left.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/25142-suggestion-question-the-glasgow-great-helm-166-188-ref-girlpuddington-bear/?p=279421

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polar

I think d0 is mainly asking for mods to at least comment when approving such threads that they have done their own research

 

We comment when we go against the votes. I just don't see why we are expected to comment to justify anything when the votes are positive and the range is accurate. For anyone who questions it, just look at the market. And if you feel the range is NOT accurate, make a counter.

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cares

some supporting proof:

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54a9ef51b88d88d9648b4b68

 

both 10 ref links quicksold. for something as common as a s. shotgun he should have had more proof.

classifieds alone couldn't provide enough to lower it from 12 to 10-11

 

Maybe you don't own one or aren't willing to sell yours, but I've personally been completely unsuccessful at selling mine for bp.tf's low-end for several days now. Classifieds indicate a further drop, and so does SCM.

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3v1lcl0n3

I looked at the marked and the needed change was obvious. 10-11 is probably too high, if anything. Classifieds and SCM suggest that 10-11 was generous.

 

 

if the s. shottie market was yesterday like it is now,then yea. i'd agree that it would be generous

but the market yesterday warranted at least 11-12 . this would also go in hand with d0's argument that suggesters push the lowest possible price. 

 

edit: @cares - i sold one for 11 this morning. but now i can't sell the remaining 2. i wonder why

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cares

if the s. shottie market was yesterday like it is now,then yea. i'd agree that it would be generous

but the market yesterday warranted at least 11-12 . this would also go in hand with d0's argument that suggesters push the lowest possible price. 

 

That suggestion was made 16 hrs ago, accepted 3 hrs ago. If the market can change so drastically in 16 hours the drop is well deserved.

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Slocumruls

We comment when we go against the votes. I just don't see why we are expected to comment to justify anything when the votes are positive and the range is accurate. For anyone who questions it, just look at the market. And if you feel the range is NOT accurate, make a counter.

Well the best example is probably the bud suggestion that clearly goes against the votes. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549dcc53b98d88b63c8b4c38 

Realistically I agree the price was accurate or even a bit low at the time but there have been quite a few complaints about the fact it was passed with such a low vote percentage and fairly lacking proof.

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polar

Well the best example is probably the bud suggestion that clearly goes against the votes. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549dcc53b98d88b63c8b4c38 

Realistically I agree the price was accurate or even a bit low at the time but there have been quite a few complaints about the fact it was passed with such a low vote percentage and fairly lacking proof.

 

The mods in general disagree about how currency is handled. I personally would have left all the buds suggestions up for at least 4 days to let the market settle. Might have reduced some of that volatility we saw of 10 --> 17 --> 13 --> 15. But Michael once told me that it's MORE manipulative to artificially impose cooldown rules to "slow" change in the market and I can't really argue with that. On that particular suggestion, he probably just missed that it didn't fit the cooldown criteria. It doesn't happen often.

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3v1lcl0n3

The mods in general disagree about how currency is handled. I personally would have left all the buds suggestions up for at least 4 days to let the market settle. Might have reduced some of that volatility we saw of 10 --> 17 --> 13 --> 15. But Michael once told me that it's MORE manipulative to artificially impose cooldown rules to "slow" change in the market and I can't really argue with that. On that particular suggestion, he probably just missed that it didn't fit the cooldown criteria. It doesn't happen often.

 

 

where's the old motto that bp.tf reflects the market and has no influence on it ? 

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polar

where's the old motto that bp.tf reflects the market and has no influence on it ? 

 

To say that we have "no" influence on the market would obviously be inaccurate. We're one of the biggest trading sites for tf2. Huge sites like outpost, SCM, and bp.tf are going to have an influence on the market for every single item. When an item changes drastically in value on SCM, you get similar changes on the value of an item. However, people have time and again insinuated that bp.tf CAUSES the rise of an item like keys or buds. And that's just not accurate. Buds were already at 15 keys for a while before the suggestion was accepted changing the price from 13-->15. Buds were already at 13 for a while before the suggestion was accepted changing it from 15-->13.

 

That's not to say bp.tf has "no" influence at all. It probably has some impact on how slow / fast the change happens and a small impact on the degree of change. But not on the underlying, large-scale market factors that really drive the change. And I can't argue with Michael that artificially imposing rules like cooldowns have their own negative impacts because that alone may modulate the change. In the end, the mod team decided that the pros outweighed the cons for cooldowns.

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HusKy

This suggestion/vote has been brought up several times before on this forum in other threads. Puddington has visited this thread as well. Doesn't he have anything to say?

 

I'm pretty sure if he closed that suggestion, there would be one up with better proof in couple hours anyway.

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