Value all unusuals in a single currency - Buds OR Keys.

[TheTruth]

Please take note - I'm not asking that unusuals be valued in keys. No, I'm aware that earbuds are the most commonly accepted currency for unusuals and the fall in price of earbuds with respect to keys reflects the unusual market as a whole. What I'm asking for, is that ALL unusuals, from the low-tier ones to the Burning Flames Team Captain be priced in ONE SINGLE currency. 

 

Let's take an example of two unusuals. 

Unusual A with a price of 13 keys, and Unusual B with a price of 1 bud. 

 

Suppose Unusual A and B were both priced at a time when earbuds were 20 keys, and earbuds dropped to 13 keys... Both of these hats are now of the same value? uwotm8.jpg

 

Any helpful or constructive feedback would be accepted. 

[Bobsplosion]

No.

[Scrublordington the III]

so l8 m8

 

there are plenty people saying the same thing but as long as buds are the common currency being traded for unusuals, the price will still be in buds.

 

Also you don't want the price to be some number like 1000 keys as opposed to x  number of buds

[TheTruth]

No.

 

Thank you for your comment, it was precise, helpful, constructive and it put forth your side of the argument very well. I rate it 360/noscope. 

 

Edit: Scrublordington: Not sure if troll or.. Er.. I'm not saying that all unusuals be priced in keys and everyone should just forget about earbuds because they're unstable,  I'm saying all unusuals should have the same currency. 

[xoㅤ]

 ONE SINGLE currency

now i personally don't want to calculate how much an unusual would be if it costed me 1351 keys, or how much "0.6 buds" is

[TheTruth]

now i personally don't want to calculate how much an unusual would be if it costed me 1351 keys, or how much "0.6 buds" is

 

So you'd rather the fluctuating price of earbuds affect some hats while not affecting others? That's not fair.. 

 

Edit: Also, bp.tf shows the value of an unusual in earbuds, keys, refined and USD so your argument is invalid. 

[naknak]

This is right on.  When buds dipped to 10 keys, the classifieds showed unsold unusuals at 8-9 keys, with suggested prices of 13.   When I saw a suggested price like that, I'd have to look at what buds were worth when it was accepted.

 

Although fractional buds pricing is awkward, its accuracy endures market fluctuation better than a price in keys.

[indy and her jones]

The main point of backpack.tf is to reflect the market. Through this, values meant as guidelines are formed.

 

If you're doing a suggestion on an unusual and there are 2 sales at 3 buds, and 1 sale at 40 keys, you could just call it 3 buds, as the majority of the market is in buds. However, if there are 2 sales at 40 keys and 1 at 3 buds, it's safer to price in keys.

Unusuals are priced in whatever currency is the majority. Saying "Oh, lets price them all in buds because that's just what happens" or "Oh, lets price them all in keys because buds are unstable" is stupid, because then you're not accurately reflecting the market.

[TheTruth]

 

The main point of backpack.tf is to reflect the market. Through this, values meant as guidelines are formed.

 

If you're doing a suggestion on an unusual and there are 2 sales at 3 buds, and 1 sale at 40 keys, you could just call it 3 buds, as the majority of the market is in buds. However, if there are 2 sales at 40 keys and 1 at 3 buds, it's safer to price in keys.

 

Unusuals are priced in whatever currency is the majority. Saying "Oh, lets price them all in buds because that's just what happens" or "Oh, lets price them all in keys because buds are unstable" is stupid, because then you're not accurately reflecting the market.

 

Wouldn't the logical thing be to:

1) Take the 40 keys

2) Divide them by the number of keys a earbud is valued at at the time of the sale? 

3) Take the quotient and use that as it's price in earbuds? 

[Mrs TS]

I totally understand what the OP is saying and to a degree, he is 110% right. 

 

If your unusual is worth 10 buds right this minute @ 13 keys each, thats 10 buds / 130 keys  

Ok, buds drop to 10 keys each. Should your unusual drop now to 100 keys?   BP.tf clearly showed it was worth 130 keys as one of the currencies, which is wrong to have it change both values due to one of them changing.

 

But humor me for one more moment....... Craft hats.  

Ok, so when keys were worth for this example, 2.66 (yes, THAT long ago)  A key got you 2 hats. There's no arguement there because thats what they went for. 

 

Ok, now a key is 17 refined. Yet, due to the way that works out, now a key is worth 12 craft hats???? Have craft hats devalued that way? Sure, some will argue that there are a lot more hats in the game since then.

 

Fine.......then allow me to show you it a little more recently....

 

Remember, a key was worth only 9 refined what....2 months ago?  That means only 2 months ago, a key would get you 6+ craft hats. Here it is 2 months later and a key (which is still worth the same) can get you 12+ craft hats?  REALLY???  How does that work in anyones world of economics??? 

This OP is NOT wrong in what he is saying. When the value of an item (in my example REFINED) goes down in value, then it takes MORE of that currency to buy the same thing. THAT is how an economy works. In just the last 2 months, craft hats SHOULD have doubled in value, which is what the value of refined dropped during that same time.

 

You can not use a currency and not have its value changing only change one aspect of it.  That's just not how any economy works.

[Slocumruls]

I totally understand what the OP is saying and to a degree, he is 110% right. 

 

If your unusual is worth 10 buds right this minute @ 13 keys each, thats 10 buds / 130 keys  

Ok, buds drop to 10 keys each. Should your unusual drop now to 100 keys?   BP.tf clearly showed it was worth 130 keys as one of the currencies, which is wrong to have it change both values due to one of them changing.

 

But humor me for one more moment....... Craft hats.  

Ok, so when keys were worth for this example, 2.66 (yes, THAT long ago)  A key got you 2 hats. There's no arguement there because thats what they went for. 

 

Ok, now a key is 17 refined. Yet, due to the way that works out, now a key is worth 12 craft hats???? Have craft hats devalued that way? Sure, some will argue that there are a lot more hats in the game since then.

 

Fine.......then allow me to show you it a little more recently....

 

Remember, a key was worth only 9 refined what....2 months ago?  That means only 2 months ago, a key would get you 6+ craft hats. Here it is 2 months later and a key (which is still worth the same) can get you 12+ craft hats?  REALLY???  How does that work in anyones world of economics??? 

This OP is NOT wrong in what he is saying. When the value of an item (in my example REFINED) goes down in value, then it takes MORE of that currency to buy the same thing. THAT is how an economy works. In just the last 2 months, craft hats SHOULD have doubled in value, which is what the value of refined dropped during that same time.

 

You can not use a currency and not have its value changing only change one aspect of it.  That's just not how any economy works.

Craft hats are mostly based on the price it would cost to craft them in ref. Therefor their price is almost always tied to ref. That's fairly simple. An unusual sold for 10 buds when buds are 16 keys likely won't fetch more than 10 buds when buds are 13 keys. The only hats with a bit of an exception are those low tiers where mostly newbies are paying full price in keys.

[TheTruth]

Craft hats are mostly based on the price it would cost to craft them in ref. Therefor their price is almost always tied to ref. That's fairly simple. An unusual sold for 10 buds when buds are 16 keys likely won't fetch more than 10 buds when buds are 13 keys. The only hats with a bit of an exception are those low tiers where mostly newbies are paying full price in keys.

 

Pretty sure (s?)he was just using craft hats as an example to prove the point. It honestly makes no sense that some unusuals are priced in keys while others are priced in buds. Why? Read above. 

[Vaccinated Autist]

it means bob's tc will be 7.02K Keys if it's 540 Buds and buds are 13keys

[♠Derpeh♤]

Using keys as the default currency when pricing unusuals/high tier items (Official answer to this question here)

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/25924-value-unusuals-in-keys-not-buds/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/26547-time-to-stop-using-buds-for-unusuals-and-use-keys-instead/

 

 

There have been a hundred threads about this already. But I'll post this again. Items should be valued in what they are actually sold. If trades are happening in keys, I have no issue with pricing them in keys. The issue is that most trades are NOT happening in keys because ----

 

Buds are a reflection of the unusual economy. They retain value due to unusuals and the need for a higher denomination of currency, but they also lose value when the unusual market stagnates. This is always the hardest time for the tf2 economy. Most people cash out in the month before Christmas. Some are just done with trading, and it marks a clean year-end break. Others need money for gifts. Whatever the reason, this is the absolute hardest time to sell hats and has been for me 3 years running. And last year was awful since we were still recovering from the effects of robo + 3rd gens + halloween effects within a few months of each other. Even then it recovered.

 

The 2 weeks following Christmas the last two years were the BEST time to sell unusuals. Especially last year when steam wallet funds started becoming regular gifts, buyable at major retailers. There was a lot of money pumped into the economy last year right after Christmas. I remember selling about 50 buds worth of hats for pure in a week, more than any other week all year. We'll see where things go this year, but I suspect a similar, though perhaps attenuated, revival this year. Interest in unusuals is bound to support buds value.

 

 

At the end of the day, unusuals are selling for the same amount of buds now as they were when buds were 16 keys. Buds have dropped probably because unusuals have lost a ton of value. Interest in unusuals should increase substantially from Christmas money.

 

[indy and her jones]

Wouldn't the logical thing be to:

1) Take the 40 keys

2) Divide them by the number of keys a earbud is valued at at the time of the sale? 

3) Take the quotient and use that as it's price in earbuds? 

 

#lateresponse

 

That is generally what happens - but if the majority of the market is in keys, why price in buds?

[TheTruth]

#lateresponse

 

That is generally what happens - but if the majority of the market is in keys, why price in buds?

 

Because then the fluctuating price of earbuds affects some hats while not affecting others. It's what I've been saying the entire time. It's even an example in the original post. 

Also, I'm not advocating the use of buds over keys or vice versa, I'm just saying "USE ONLY ONE". 

[TurboNEET]

I don't mind it tbh. When keys were 19 keys my TF Logo panama was 1 bud. Now it's 1.5 buds due the price of buds

[TheTruth]

I don't mind it tbh. When keys were 19 keys my TF Logo panama was 1 bud. Now it's 1.5 buds due the price of buds

 

I think the first "keys" should've been "buds" in your post. Anyways, you're kind of missing the point. I don't mind if all unusuals are priced in buds, I actually think it's good. Please read the following though:

 

Two unusuals are there: Unusual A with a price of 1 earbud and your professional panama worth 19 keys. At the time of both unusuals being priced, earbuds are 19 keys. So at that time, both unusuals are the same value.

 

Understanding so far? Good. Now read on:

 

Earbuds drop to 13 keys. Unusual A is now 13 keys, but your Circling Logo Panama is now 1.5 buds? That's not fair to the owner of the Unusual A. He's suffering due to the difference in currencies used, while you're profiting. 

 

Understand why I want all unusuals to be priced in a single currency?

 

Edit: On second thought, I think you understood what I was saying all along and you're okay with it because you're on the profiting end. That's not fair, think of the people who are losing their unusual value because of the difference in currency used. 

[Mrs TS]

Pretty sure (s?)he was just using craft hats as an example to prove the point. It honestly makes no sense that some unusuals are priced in keys while others are priced in buds. Why? Read above. 

Yes, its 'she'  

 

And yes, I was just using craft hats as an example.  I was just trying to stress that using more than 1 form of currency is not only confusing, but contradictionary.  A value is a value, having more than one currency to establish a value is fine..... but when 1 of them changes, then the values of the other currencies as well are affected and things priced at those other values should.....as common sense dictates, change as well.

 

And, while I am fairly new to actual posting here, I have been a long time lurker. And, I must say, it is refreshing to see that serious conversations CAN take place without it turning into a cesspool or bloodbath. 

 

And on that note, HAPPY NEW YEAR to one and all. 

[TheTruth]

Bump.

[♠Derpeh♤]

Bump.

Reposting what I have posted above...

 

Using keys as the default currency when pricing unusuals/high tier items (Official answer to this question here)

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/25924-value-unusuals-in-keys-not-buds/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/26547-time-to-stop-using-buds-for-unusuals-and-use-keys-instead/

 

 

There have been a hundred threads about this already. But I'll post this again. Items should be valued in what they are actually sold. If trades are happening in keys, I have no issue with pricing them in keys. The issue is that most trades are NOT happening in keys because ----

 

Buds are a reflection of the unusual economy. They retain value due to unusuals and the need for a higher denomination of currency, but they also lose value when the unusual market stagnates. This is always the hardest time for the tf2 economy. Most people cash out in the month before Christmas. Some are just done with trading, and it marks a clean year-end break. Others need money for gifts. Whatever the reason, this is the absolute hardest time to sell hats and has been for me 3 years running. And last year was awful since we were still recovering from the effects of robo + 3rd gens + halloween effects within a few months of each other. Even then it recovered.

 

The 2 weeks following Christmas the last two years were the BEST time to sell unusuals. Especially last year when steam wallet funds started becoming regular gifts, buyable at major retailers. There was a lot of money pumped into the economy last year right after Christmas. I remember selling about 50 buds worth of hats for pure in a week, more than any other week all year. We'll see where things go this year, but I suspect a similar, though perhaps attenuated, revival this year. Interest in unusuals is bound to support buds value.

 

 

At the end of the day, unusuals are selling for the same amount of buds now as they were when buds were 16 keys. Buds have dropped probably because unusuals have lost a ton of value. Interest in unusuals should increase substantially from Christmas money.

 

[TheTruth]

Reposting what I have posted above...

 

Using keys as the default currency when pricing unusuals/high tier items (Official answer to this question here)

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/25924-value-unusuals-in-keys-not-buds/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/26547-time-to-stop-using-buds-for-unusuals-and-use-keys-instead/

 

 

Man, reading is so hard, isn't it? You either didn't read the topic or misunderstood it completely. I'm not making your average garden-variety "abandon buds dey r crashing!11!!Q" topic. I'm saying that all unusuals should be priced in only earbuds and not keys. Why? Simple, because when earbuds fluctuate they affect only hats which are priced in buds while not affecting those unusuals which are priced in keys, which is unfair and inaccurate. 

[♠Derpeh♤]

Man, reading is so hard, isn't it? You either didn't read the topic or misunderstood it completely. I'm not making your average garden-variety "abandon buds dey r crashing!11!!Q" topic. I'm saying that all unusuals should be priced in only earbuds and not keys. Why? Simple, because when earbuds fluctuate they affect only hats which are priced in buds while not affecting those unusuals which are priced in keys, which is unfair and inaccurate. 

 

How is what you're asking any different than those 2 topics? You are both asking for the same or very similar things which warrens the same answer which if you had read you would had seen the same reply multiple times.

 

also if you read the official response as to which currency to use ill bold and enlarge it for the third time so you can see

 

 

There have been a hundred threads about this already. But I'll post this again. Items should be valued in what they are actually sold. If trades are happening in keys, I have no issue with pricing them in keys. The issue is that most trades are NOT happening in keys because ----

 

Buds are a reflection of the unusual economy. They retain value due to unusuals and the need for a higher denomination of currency, but they also lose value when the unusual market stagnates. This is always the hardest time for the tf2 economy. Most people cash out in the month before Christmas. Some are just done with trading, and it marks a clean year-end break. Others need money for gifts. Whatever the reason, this is the absolute hardest time to sell hats and has been for me 3 years running. And last year was awful since we were still recovering from the effects of robo + 3rd gens + halloween effects within a few months of each other. Even then it recovered.

 

The 2 weeks following Christmas the last two years were the BEST time to sell unusuals. Especially last year when steam wallet funds started becoming regular gifts, buyable at major retailers. There was a lot of money pumped into the economy last year right after Christmas. I remember selling about 50 buds worth of hats for pure in a week, more than any other week all year. We'll see where things go this year, but I suspect a similar, though perhaps attenuated, revival this year. Interest in unusuals is bound to support buds value.

 

 

At the end of the day, unusuals are selling for the same amount of buds now as they were when buds were 16 keys. Buds have dropped probably because unusuals have lost a ton of value. Interest in unusuals should increase substantially from Christmas money.

 

 

 

TL;DR If they sold in keys they should be priced in keys if they sold in buds then price in buds. That is why lower tier items are normally priced in keys because they are mostly sold for keys, this is also why some ranges are weird e.g. 0.8-1bud because most sales were in buds hence the bud currency.

[❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤]

Wouldn't the logical thing be to:

1) Take the 40 keys

2) Divide them by the number of keys a earbud is valued at at the time of the sale? 

3) Take the quotient and use that as it's price in earbuds? 

^^ why is it so hard to understand for others. this makes perfect sense.

buds are a stockpile of keys ppl that use buds to pay for an unusual they are actually paying in key stock piles they just happened to use buds for convenience.

 this in the long run would made bp.tf somewhat more accurate on unusual market. witch at the moment is a joke.

just give a look to the low tier hats to get the idea.

 the op is perfectly right.

 Upvote.

[TheTruth]

How is what you're asking any different than those 2 topics? You are both asking for the same or very similar things which warrens the same answer which if you had read you would had seen the same reply multiple times.

 

also if you read the official response as to which currency to use ill bold and enlarge it for the third time so you can see

 

 

 

 

 

TL;DR If they sold in keys they should be priced in keys if they sold in buds then price in buds. That is why lower tier items are normally priced in keys because they are mostly sold for keys, this is also why some ranges are weird e.g. 0.8-1bud because most sales were in buds hence the bud currency.

 

 

What I'm asking for is very much different than what they are asking for. They are asking for earbuds to be dropped and keys to be adopted because earbuds are, according to them, unstable.

I'm asking for all unusuals to be priced in a single currency, earbuds. Why? So that when the price of earbuds fluctuates, it affects EVERY SINGLE UNUSUAL and not just SOME OF THEM, which is UNFAIR. 

 

As for your 'TL;DR', all I have to say is that you re-read my original example, naknak's post, and if you have the time, Mrs T's post.

When earbuds dip to a lower amount, or even rise up for that matter, it SHOULD affect the >>>>ENTIRE<<<< unusual market. It doesn't. This is what's wrong. Because as soon as earbuds hit the lower numbers(Say.. 10-12), "cancer" hats start to technically hold a value that is higher than the "semi-lower tier" hats which are a bud, or perhaps just above one. This leads to hundreds, if not more "cancer" or "semi-cancer?" hats automatically assuming an incorrect value. As of that moment, they're value is.. Equal to, or at times even MORE THAN unusuals that should be of a much higher value than these "cancer" hats.. Why? Because people like you refuse to accept one common currency for unusuals. Thanks for that, by the way.