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cleverpun

Rules for Key Suggestions

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cleverpun

Due to the high volume of key suggestions, there is a mandatory waiting period between all key suggestions.

 

  • If the mean difference is .66 or greater, there is NO WAITING period.
  • If the mean difference is above .33 but below .66, there is a 3 day waiting period.
  • If the mean difference is .33 or lower, there is a 7 day waiting period.

 

All these values are based on the mean difference between the old price and new price. Remember; the mean is the sum of the values divided by the number of values. Example: changing 20.33 to 20.66-21.00 (mean price of 20.83) would require 3 days since the last suggestion, since the difference is 0.50. A change from 20.33 (no range) to 21.00 (no range) would require no waiting period, since the mean difference is .66.

 

Last updated; May 7, 2015

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cleverpun

These guidelines were originally proposed by Sir J-j-jon HERE. I am rectifying a small administrative oversight and making them more visible.

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boogeyman™

Do not suggest a new price range for keys that is only a .5 scrap difference from the last suggestion (median, not total).--- Can you, or any of the other moderators, please explain this with an example, lets say the current key price is 5.44-5.66 ref and proposed is 5.55-5.66. What is the median difference and what is the total difference?

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ThatOtherChigga #Mack

 

Do not suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have passed since the last increase,

I thought it was 7 days.

 

edit: nvm

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cleverpun

Do not suggest a new price range for keys that is only a .5 scrap difference from the last suggestion (median, not total).--- Can you, or any of the other moderators, please explain this with an example, lets say the current key price is 5.44-5.66 ref and proposed is 5.55-5.66. What is the median difference and what is the total difference?

Sorry about that, small typo.

 

I have rewritten that section to use clearer language.

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polar

These guidelines were originally proposed by Sir J-j-jon HERE. I am rectifying a small administrative oversight and making them more visible.

 

Thank you for doing so. I feel like rules like this have been made before informally and doing so just added to the confusion. When these kinds of rules are made, do the mods actually talk to each other over chat? Or is it just posted in the forum like this? 

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cleverpun

Thank you for doing so. I feel like rules like this have been made before informally and doing so just added to the confusion. When these kinds of rules are made, do the mods actually talk to each other over chat? Or is it just posted in the forum like this? 

 

There is an Admin Only section of the forums where we discuss policy and other site-wide decisions. Occasionally a decision may be needed immediately and it is discussed afterwards, but thankfully such moments are uncommon. I have used steam chat with multiple mods as well, but again, such urgency is rare.

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OverduePixels

 

Do not suggest a new price range for keys that is only a scrap difference from the last suggestion (total, or half a scrap median. Ex: 7.66 to 7.66-7.77 is too small a change). If you are only raising/lowering one end by a scrap the change is too small. We do not need this constant spamming of changes to a single end of the range.

  • Unless the price has been stable for 7+ days and only a small change is needed.

 

 

 

-Snip-

 

Ah, damn I forgot about the last note about this rule and wasted 1 hour for nothing. Sorry  :ph34r:

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Mr Prince

So i woke up thinking lets gather some more proof on top of the 165 links i already gathered because cooldown is no where near over, nope.

 

i2OVIIV.png

 

Well if its gonna be like this fine, i won't bother with suggestions anymore.

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♠Derpeh♤

So i woke up thinking lets gather some more proof on top of the 165 links i already gathered because cooldown is no where near over, nope.

Well if its gonna be like this fine, i won't bother with suggestions anymore.

As a add-on to this, Arokhantos was asking me for advice on currency suggestions on what sort of proof to gather as well as the range the day before however, he felt that he should respect backpack.tf's rules and wait for the cooldown to be over.

 

Though leniency on the cooldown has been shown recently I feel that it should be stricter to avoid suggesters who have decided to abide by our rules and regulations only to be shot down by those who dont.

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Mr Prince

Yeah well don't have to expect any future suggestions from me again, and i suggest others to not bother ass well because its a complete waste of time...........

And yeah i'm very pissed off.

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♠Derpeh♤

Can I ask for a confirmation if it is 3days from the time the suggestion is accepted or when the suggestion was made since there are times when it takes many days for a decision to be made and the price of keys can already be borderline out of date. Example being the key suggestion 10-10.33ref (suggestion made 8days ago only accepted 2days ago) and price was already edging on 10.33refs flat when that suggestion was accepted.

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boogeyman™

Please see this update everyone: The 0.33 change is calculated from teh lower end of the price. For example: If the current range is 18.66-19 ref and once made a suggestion to change to 19 ref without waiting for even a day or so ; then it is very well acceptable. This is confirmed by cleverpun.

 

For proof: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5549f672b98d8817078b4569

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cleverpun

In order to address vague wording and key inflation/ref deflation rates, the rules have been updated.

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boogeyman™

Due to the high volume of key suggestions, there is a mandatory waiting period between all key suggestions.

 

  • If the mean difference is .66 or greater, there is NO WAITING period.
  • If the mean difference is above .33 but below .66, there is a 3 day waiting period.
  • If the mean difference is .33 or lower, there is a 7 day waiting period.

 

All these values are based on the mean difference between the old price and new price. Remember; the mean is the sum of the values divided by the number of values. Example: changing 20.33 to 20.66-21.00 (mean price of 20.83) would require 3 days since the last suggestion, since the difference is 0.50. A change from 20.33 (no range) to 21.00 (no range) would require no waiting period, since the mean difference is .66.

 

Last updated; May 7, 2015

Now you are trying to control the key prices. That is not what you guys claim to practice. This should be put to community first for discussion before you make the change. The price is for community and it should be the community to decide.

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♠Derpeh♤

Now you are trying to control the key prices. That is not what you guys claim to practice. This should be put to community first for discussion before you make the change. The price is for community and it should be the community to decide.

A simple update which is barely even a change but more so to be clearer on rules shouldnt warrant a full discussion, this rule was put into effect to prevent key suggestions constantly inching up the price which lead to bp.tf leading the market.

 

The rule is basically a big change in price (change in market, an update) there should be a update soon as possible to prevent sharking, a small change 3 days cooldown to prevent bp.tf leading the market from the previous accepted and an entire week for very small changes.

 

You seem to forget this website is actually the community, the mods are part of this community who volunteer their free time, they used to suggest/comment just as you are now. Instead of complaining constantly and flailing around non-issues try to understand why things are the way they are.

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cleverpun

Now you are trying to control the key prices. That is not what you guys claim to practice. This should be put to community first for discussion before you make the change. The price is for community and it should be the community to decide.

If you have any issue with the new revision of the old rules, you are welcome to voice it in a constructive, helpful way. Caustic accusations only make you look bad.

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boogeyman™

A simple update which is barely even a change but more so to be clearer on rules shouldnt warrant a full discussion, this rule was put into effect to prevent key suggestions constantly inching up the price which lead to bp.tf leading the market.

 

The rule is basically a big change in price (change in market, an update) there should be a update soon as possible to prevent sharking, a small change 3 days cooldown to prevent bp.tf leading the market from the previous accepted and an entire week for very small changes.

 

You seem to forget this website is actually the community, the mods are part of this community who volunteer their free time, they used to suggest/comment just as you are now. Instead of complaining constantly and flailing around non-issues try to understand why things are the way they are.

First of all they should not be rules. They should be called guidelines.

 

Secondly, moderators are part of community and not the community. If everything is meant to be reflection of the community then it should be implemented to the last word.  I am least concerned about the price variations here. If it was to put to a discussion, there is a possibility that a better way might pop up.

 

Volunteer free time does not mean that their decisions could not be wrong or in this instance debatable. They volunteer their time on their won accord; their own free will.

 

They are moderators of backpack.tf and not the community. If you want to make a rule based on that then it is clear controlling the market, if they are to represent the market then it has to be subjected by due reasoning and discussion and then implemented.

 

Everyone used to hate spreadsheet because it is said to be controlled by one guy. This is turning to be the same; a bunch of guys are controlling when to change a price of keys here on their own accord. If it is for the community then put it to the community.

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boogeyman™

If you have any issue with the new revision of the old rules, you are welcome to voice it in a constructive, helpful way. Caustic accusations only make you look bad.

This is not a accusation. This is a fact.

 

If this decison was made being a moderator of the backpack.tf then this clearly is controlling price on backpack.tf. If it is meant to be a representation by the community then it should be put to community first and then revised based on that.

 

For example a day before yesterday on a key suggestion, Cleverpun stated that a change from a range of 18.66-19 ref to 19 ref alone was a change equal to 0.33 ref. while the community argued otherwise. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5549f672b98d8817078b4569

 

This could be exactly the same thing. My point only that if you are making a change for the community then ask the community first. If it is not for the community and is just restricted to stopping backpack.tf leading the market then it could be very well legally termed as controlling key prices on backpack.tf.

 

The spreadsheet guy was also controlling price on his spreadsheet, the rest were just following. It is the same here; perhaps only a start for now where the bunch control the time when it should be updated.

 

ANd lastly, I am not questioning Cleverpun's decision. He may be very well correct in his judgement. My worry is that the practice is wrong. It should be put to community first to decide.

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cleverpun

This is not a accusation. This is a fact.

 

If this decison was made being a moderator of the backpack.tf then this clearly is controlling price on backpack.tf. If it is meant to be a representation by the community then it should be put to community first and then revised based on that.

 

For example a day before yesterday on a key suggestion, Cleverpun stated that a change from a range of 18.66-19 ref to 19 ref alone was a change equal to 0.33 ref. while the community argued otherwise. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5549f672b98d8817078b4569

 

This could be exactly the same thing. My point only that if you are making a change for the community then ask the community first. If it is not for the community and is just restricted to stopping backpack.tf leading the market then it could be very well legally termed as controlling key prices on backpack.tf.

 

The spreadsheet guy was also controlling price on his spreadsheet, the rest were just following. It is the same here; perhaps only a start for now where the bunch control the time when it should be updated.

 

ANd lastly, I am not questioning Cleverpun's decision. He may be very well correct in his judgement. My worry is that the practice is wrong. It should be put to community first to decide.

Trying to dress up libel as fact doesn't make it fact. If you can't explain your objections without insults, then they need to be reworded.

 

It is because I commented on that key suggestion and realized that I did not understand/could not explain the current rules that I realized it needed to be changed. If one of the writers of the rule cannot explain it, something is amiss. These revisions are not my work alone.

 

The cooldown rules/guidelines are and always have been there in order to prevent backpack.tf from leading the market. The moderator team chose to sacrifice up-to-date prices in order to reduce our influence on the market. When the cooldown was first introduced, there would be one or more key suggestions every single day, and the presence of those suggestions then created a cascade of people raising their prices in order to match ours. The community did not object to the cooldown rule, because they saw the need for it. The fact that key suggestions keep appearing every 3 days shows that the mechanics have fallen out of date with their original goal.

 

The entire reason this and several other rule/guideline topics are open to commenting is so users can provide feedback on the mechanics and implementations of said rules. If you have criticism of the rules, then word it constructively and politely in order to make sure it is heard.

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Salvage

Last suggestion was ~7 days before that one. 

Not when it was created, key price was ~5 days old when the suggestion was created.

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