The Suggestion System on Backpack.tf

[krawtch]

solution: all prices are now random.

 

bills are worth 0.66 and unique geisha boy is worth 8 keys

 

spin a wheel with prices on it.

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

solution: all prices are now random.

 

bills are worth 0.66 and unique geisha boy is worth 8 keys

 

spin a wheel with prices on it.

 

On a fateful day in 2014...

 

*spins wheel*

 

'Burning Flames TC is now worth 2 ref!'

 

*all listen to hear Bob turn into a Bobsplosion*

[KiNgSnAkE]

Original Sugarcube you are taking this as a personal attack. Me against you. Why is this? and what does it say about the underlying psychology of what is going on. To say that the market does not involve real money is just not true. There is real money involved plus the time and effort that is invested in dealing and trading which has inherent value. 

 

I do intend to participate. In fact I was looking at making one and could not really find anything that I would call objective evidence as to price. (I do know what the fair price is)

 

To me the best indicator of value in the market is the Steam Market which has hundreds of sales that relate to what people will actually pay for something with their money. Maybe that should in some way be incorporated into a pricing system.

 

I can tell you the honest price for a lot of items. But to actually prove it with what is available on trading sites is very difficult.

[aaroncsn]

I never said there should not be a suggestions system and I certainly would never want to exclude anyone from being part of this system.I have not used the suggestion system myself because I have spent my time trying to understand the economy and trying to figure out ways to make a profit. That is Capitalism and capitalism works because so many people participate and benefit. 

 

Systems go through phases. Some people would say our economic system is broken but ultimately that is just someone opinion?

 

And that just brings me back to my original question. Is the suggestion system on backpack.tf a broken system that is damaging to the stability of the market as a whole. Should it be changed?

 

Maybe limiting the number of suggestions over a given period of time?

Making the changing of existing prices more difficult then it currently is?

Limiting the number of suggestion over a given period of time? There are cool down period for currencies suggestions and a 2 months interval for unusuals between price refreshers in place. These already act to limit the suggestions that we can make on these items. And also, what is the point of limiting the number of suggestions when the market is fluctuating all the time?

 

Well the changing of existing prices is already pretty difficult in my opinion. (At least in terms of unusuals) There are many things we need to consider such as the need of  mini suggestion for each outdated unusuals/ duped unusuals/ gifted/ killstreak items that forms a huge part of the trade , applying overpay , only sales within 2 months are valid etc, must have at least 2 sales or under certain circumstances, one sale may be used. ). With all these restrictions, you have no idea how much harder it is now for us unusual suggestors. Why make it harder when it is already hard enough? 

 

 

I am curious about your opinions on the suggestion system that sets the price of items on backpack.tf. I am sort of new to the site and what confuses me; there appears to be a professional class of suggesters who are systematically manipulating the price of items in the economy; or so it appears this way to me.

 

Just looking at some of the most active suggesters they have hundreds of suggestions with an acceptance rate almost 100%. Anything that happens in a real market almost 100% of the time is a definite sign of corruption.

 

Counting their first 50 suggestions in most instances about 80-95% are downgrades. So there appears to be no objectivity here.

 

Also if you look at these individuals backpacks a lot of them look like alt idling accounts. Most of them have very poor backpack content and I would not even consider them serious traders. 

 

Does this concern anyone? Why is allowed to continue? Does Backpack.tf have any responsibility to the real traders in the market?

 

Could someone explain the logic behind what seems to be a very irresponsible system of setting prices.

 

Backpack has a major influence on every trade that happens the TF2 economy. Is this a responsible system?

 

If it is that easy to manipulate prices, why aren't your attempt to price manipulate accepted? ( http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5404ab8cb98d88cf698b45a1 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53fe3440b88d88a6628b48dc  ) Votes really mean nothing here. We can have 100% upvotes but it may still be closed by mods. We can have 0% upvotes but if the evidence is there and they are solid, it will be accepted.  And also, with many suggestors/voters checking your proof and pointing out your mistakes, you have no chance of manipulating the prices without providing proof of sales.

 

Well, instead of a sign of corruption, why don't you take it as a sign that the person doing the suggestions put a lot of effort into making sure that each and every one of their suggestions are as accurate as possible? (I can tell you that sometimes it takes me 2-3 hours to make a suggestion just to make sure that it is accurate) And also, as already been pointed out, if the suggestions are closed by the suggestor himself, it doesn't reduce the acceptance rate. 100% doesn't mean that every single one of our suggestions are accepted. It just means that we are actively closing our inaccurate suggestions.

 

Downgrades meaning dropping the price i presume? Well, i am sure if you are an experienced trader, you should know about the hype dying down after a while. It can be seen evidently on both low tier items and unusuals. Therefore, most suggestions will be downgrades. 

 

You don't need to have 300 buds worth of backpack to be good at suggestions. If you bothered reading the rules http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6033-new-unusual-price-suggestion-guide-the-cheat-sheet/and http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/792-how-to-make-a-good-suggestion-bullet-points-version/ , even if you have a small backpack value, you can still produce a good suggestion. So how much your backpack is worth is irrelevant to how good your suggestion's quality is. 

 

Does this concern anyone?

- Is there a need to be concerned? 

 

Why is this allowed to continue? 

- Why not? I don't see any problem with this at all. 

 

Does Backpack.tf have any responsibility to the real traders in the market?

- Yes. Real traders use those prices to gain profit. Think about it this way, without a set price, would you even know the value of them to know how much profit that you could have gained from a trade? The prices gives us a way to know what items to buy to gain profit and what not to buy. In a way, real traders benefit from these prices. You will be lying if you didn't use the prices for the profit that you gain. 

 

Could someone explain the logic behind what seems to be a very irresponsible system of setting prices? 

- If you have bothered finding out how the prices are set, you wouldn't call it an irresponsible system. Read the guidelines to suggestions and you will change your mind about this statement. 

Backpack has a major influence on every trade that happens the TF2 economy. Is this a responsible system?

- Yes it is a 100% responsible system. With strict rules in place on whether or not a suggestion is accepted, it is definitely a much more responsible system than what we used to have, when there was no price list to refer to and everyone sets their own prices with a lot more manipulation going on. Compare this with what we had before, this is a much better system.

[♥Prof. Sugarcube♥]

Original Sugarcube you are taking this as a personal attack. Me against you. Why is this? and what does it say about the underlying psychology of what is going on. To say that the market does not involve real money is just not true. There is real money involved plus the time and effort that is invested in dealing and trading which has inherent value. 

 

I do intend to participate. In fact I was looking at making one and could not really find anything that I would call objective evidence as to price. (I do know what the fair price is)

 

To me the best indicator of value in the market is the Steam Market which has hundreds of sales that relate to what people will actually pay for something with their money. Maybe that should in some way be incorporated into a pricing system.

 

I can tell you the honest price for a lot of items. But to actually prove it with what is available on trading sites is very difficult.

 

Eeeeeeeeeexcept SCM is too unstable to create a price off of, + the 15% Gaben Tax + the other factors associated with it + The fact Refined is not marketable. And this has nothing to do with psychology -.-

 

And if you intend to participate, Participate. Instead of claiming to know everything.

[d0 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)]

Pretty sure all unusual questions asked is well made an organized in the unusual guide by polar.

 

All other priceable items require proof, essentially 99% of all suggestions accepted are fine because the proof is valid and been reviewed by the community and mod(s).

 

It's always amusing to read about people saying market will crash because of quickbuyers and key prices. We should value and respect the people who use more keys and items that cost real money compared to ref and all free stuff (drops). Quickbuyers are keeping the hats fluctuate and alive, because more buyers out there - More demand, more trading, more active.

 

There's a reason why there is a cooldown and mods leave suggestions up for a longer time (if there's a consistant drop/increase of a specific item). Bp.tf price items based of sales & sellers. Not the other way around, so I don't really see what the issue is. But only reason why I post here is because you have a more valueable backpack than most <$10 bp whining users.

[Prince Lowell]

Original Sugarcube you are taking this as a personal attack. Me against you. Why is this? and what does it say about the underlying psychology of what is going on. To say that the market does not involve real money is just not true. There is real money involved plus the time and effort that is invested in dealing and trading which has inherent value. 

 

I do intend to participate. In fact I was looking at making one and could not really find anything that I would call objective evidence as to price. (I do know what the fair price is)

 

To me the best indicator of value in the market is the Steam Market which has hundreds of sales that relate to what people will actually pay for something with their money. Maybe that should in some way be incorporated into a pricing system.

 

I can tell you the honest price for a lot of items. But to actually prove it with what is available on trading sites is very difficult.

it's more you against all of us