KiNgSnAkE Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am curious about your opinions on the suggestion system that sets the price of items on backpack.tf. I am sort of new to the site and what confuses me; there appears to be a professional class of suggesters who are systematically manipulating the price of items in the economy; or so it appears this way to me. Just looking at some of the most active suggesters they have hundreds of suggestions with an acceptance rate almost 100%. Anything that happens in a real market almost 100% of the time is a definite sign of corruption. Counting their first 50 suggestions in most instances about 80-95% are downgrades. So there appears to be no objectivity here. Also if you look at these individuals backpacks a lot of them look like alt idling accounts. Most of them have very poor backpack content and I would not even consider them serious traders. Does this concern anyone? Why is allowed to continue? Does Backpack.tf have any responsibility to the real traders in the market? Could someone explain the logic behind what seems to be a very irresponsible system of setting prices. Backpack has a major influence on every trade that happens the TF2 economy. Is this a responsible system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Oh my god not this again. The suggestors are NOT Manipulating the economy. Backpack.tf is a PRICE GUIDE, not the BIBLE. You can use any price you want, nobody would care. However When you accuse us of Manipulating You show to have no knowledge of economics. Their suggestions get passed because they provide proof that people are willing to PAY that amount for that item. The reason it gets accepted ~90% of the time is because they actually make good suggestions. Someone can have a 2$ BP and get a suggestion accepted for keys. Nobody has to be a serious trader to suggest. Mods also close bad suggestions, they thoroughly check the links. Have you ever heard of Proof-Reading? We do not run the economy. That's not how an economy WORKS. and last of all VOTES MEAN NOTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminal Inhalation Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I am curious about your opinions on the suggestion system that sets the price of items on backpack.tf. I am sort of new to the site and what confuses me; there appears to be a professional class of suggesters who are systematically manipulating the price of items in the economy; or so it appears this way to me. Just looking at some of the most active suggesters they have hundreds of suggestions with an acceptance rate almost 100%. Anything that happens in a real market almost 100% of the time is a definite sign of corruption. Counting their first 50 suggestions in most instances about 80-95% are downgrades. So there appears to be no objectivity here. Also if you look at these individuals backpacks a lot of them look like alt idling accounts. Most of them have very poor backpack content and I would not even consider them serious traders. Does this concern anyone? Why is allowed to continue? Does Backpack.tf have any responsibility to the real traders in the market? Could someone explain the logic behind what seems to be a very irresponsible system of setting prices. Backpack has a major influence on every trade that happens the TF2 economy. Is this a responsible system? It doesn't, the market has a huge influence on backpack.tf. Suggestions are based off of GOOD VIABLE PROOF, NOT OPINION. Votes mean virtually nothing, except when mods have a difficult time making a decision which is very rare. And. TAKE AN ECONOMICS CLASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slocumruls Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 When you close a suggestion yourself it does not effect your percentage (rather than when it is closed by a moderator). Many of the "Pro" suggestors close their own suggestions quite often when they are shown other proof or find it themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ward - MvM Anyone? Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Oh, people manipulate prices all the time. People like to say that 'Bp.Tf is a price guide kkk' but them same people know that the economy pretty much relies on BP.TF and most people follow its prices. If an item goes up, most people will sell at that price. Anything lower is insta sold. So yeah, people don't manipulate prices in a way that they have to fake trades to do it, but they go out of their way to spend ages on a price rise suggestion only because they have a lot of them items. Remember Long218? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 -snip- Got any proof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 When you close a suggestion yourself it does not effect your percentage (rather than when it is closed by a moderator). Many of the "Pro" suggestors close their own suggestions quite often when they are shown other proof or find it themselves THIS^ Also, there are a lot more situations of items going down in price than there are of items going up in value. New items always drop in value. These "experienced" suggestors take advantage of easy suggestions like these to drop values of items as supply continues to increase. And if you think about the market as a whole, most items that aren't key / buds will continue to go down in value as more and more different items get added with each update. Unusuals used to be rare at one point, especially when there were only first gens. Now we have 2nd, 3rd, 4th gens, new halloweens, etc. Aren't exactly a rare commodity. Pure is rare relative to unusuals at this point. This doesn't mean that the unusual market is "crashing." Overall values of all unusuals in the economy continue to go up. But the average value will always trend down as traders have more and more different options to choose from. Same goes with non-unusual, regular cosmetic items. Not a huge surprise that most items decrease in value over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I look at the proof that is provided and it is very thin. And how come such a high percentage of the suggestions are downgrades in price. I don't dislike the idea of a suggestion system. I think it is kind of interesting. It just seems to be a rather unregulated unstructured system that is being taken advantage of. Not necessarily for pecuniary gain but for other reason. I see a lot of comments like this. "This is going to make me feel sick but I am going to have to up this item." There seems to some sort of underlying psychological need for a lot of people on here to downgrade the value of items I am not talking about new items. It happens in real life new goes up becomes old and goes down. That is called fashion. I am talking about the larger items that the individuals who are suggesting and changing the price of will never own or trade for. Backpack does have an enormous influence on every trade that goes on in the economy. For anyone who trades this is just common sense and the reality. The proof that is given for most of the suggestions I have looked at is very poor; it certainly would not stand up in any system that was regulated by law. As I said I am not against the suggestion system but does it need some regulation? From what I have seen it does. One of the worst things that a market can possess is instability. Should there be stricker guidelines for changing prices? And as far as understanding economics and markets I am a professor at Guelph-Humber University in Toronto in the Business School. I have managed a brokerage firm and been a Senior Trader and Analyst. I actually find this very interesting. I have used it in class for demonstration and discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 -snip- If you don't like the suggestion system, don't use BP.TF. Agree with everything said except this part. Most, if not all, of the TF2 traders use backpack.tf as their price guide. Hard to use some other system when there are little to no people out there that use other spreadsheet sites I look at the proof that is provided and it is very thin. And how come such a high percentage of the suggestions are downgrades in price. I don't dislike the idea of a suggestion system. I think it is kind of interesting. It just seems to be a rather unregulated unstructured system that is being taken advantage of. Not necessarily for pecuniary gain but for other reason. I see a lot of comments like this. "This is going to make me feel sick but I am going to have to up this item." There seems to some sort of underlying psychological need for a lot of people on here to downgrade the value of items What makes prices prices is supply and demand. If the moderators see the supply and demand correlate with the sales and the suggested price, they will accept it. Overall it comes down to a few people making prices, and I can see where the "manipulation" side of the argument comes from that, but it's mainly people who dislike items or currency rising (becomes harder to afford) or falling (when they own the item, etc.) and disregard actual evidence. The suggestions you see with little evidence is either one of two things: there isn't much on the market or people don't buy it often. If there is too little proof, the moderators will notice this and most likely decline the suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lowell Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I seriously cannot tolerate this argument. It is not BP.tf that dictates the prices. We just update the price based on different market trends. If it was just opinion based, then why do the opinion based suggestions get absolutely spammed with "needs proof" comments Proof is what we hold highest here. It's like the ace attorney games: evidence is everything in Bp.tf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lowell Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 And as far as understanding economics and markets I am a professor at Guelph-Humber University in Toronto in the Business School. I have managed a brokerage firm and been a Senior Trader and Analyst. Cool??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 You show to have no knowledge of economics. Cool??? KingSnake didn't say that for no reason, he's just addressing Sugarcube's assumtion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not cool that is my background and now I teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonkers Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 And as far as understanding economics and markets I am a professor at Guelph-Humber University in Toronto in the Business School. I have managed a brokerage firm and been a Senior Trader and Analyst. I actually find this very interesting. I have used it in class for demonstration and discussion. So is GHU just a bad school or is it common for someone with no economics experience to teach economics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share Posted October 28, 2014 I think backpack.tf has a responsibility to the market whether it likes it or not. It sets the ground work on which the vast majority of deals begin and in most cases end. Is backpack.tf taking its responsibility seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Lowell Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think backpack.tf has a responsibility to the market whether it likes it or not. It sets the ground work on which the vast majority of deals begin and in most cases end. Is backpack.tf taking its responsibility seriously? well if you think that we should take responsibility, then make some suggestions that aren't price manipulation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cares Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I think backpack.tf has a responsibility to the market whether it likes it or not. It sets the ground work on which the vast majority of deals begin and in most cases end. Is backpack.tf taking its responsibility seriously? backpack.tf is a free service, it's a privilege, and not a right. How does it have any responsibilities now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 Sure it does. It affects a lot of people and the hard work that they have put into accruing their items and wealth. I think it is an honorable position to be in. It goes to the success of this Website and the market as a whole. It is a unique thing. But success leads to responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawtch Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 no proof. opinion doesn't matter. downvote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♛ AlphaOmega ♛ Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 Also if you look at these individuals backpacks a lot of them look like alt idling accounts. Most of them have very poor backpack content and I would not even consider them serious traders. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. i really cant believe you just pulled the "they arent rich or spent a lot of money. They shouldnt be here". My friend that is complete arrogance to the max. I honestly stopped reading after that. That is such a rude thing to point out and, in fact, not something that should matter. They are poor so they arent good traders? They arent serious? Are you serious? Im sorry mods if this sounds like starting a flame war, but this is a HORRIBLE reason for "this system doesnt seem good". Honestly man. Just because they dont spend as much time or money as you or me doesnt mean that they arent "serious" or shouldnt be suggestors. I admit there are some people who arent so rich and make proofless suggestions, but it is another thing to beat on people who dont have a big bp and call them out saying they arent serious enough traders to suggest. BULL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiNgSnAkE Posted October 29, 2014 Author Share Posted October 29, 2014 I never said there should not be a suggestions system and I certainly would never want to exclude anyone from being part of this system.I have not used the suggestion system myself because I have spent my time trying to understand the economy and trying to figure out ways to make a profit. That is Capitalism and capitalism works because so many people participate and benefit. Systems go through phases. Some people would say our economic system is broken but ultimately that is just someone opinion? And that just brings me back to my original question. Is the suggestion system on backpack.tf a broken system that is damaging to the stability of the market as a whole. Should it be changed? Maybe limiting the number of suggestions over a given period of time? Making the changing of existing prices more difficult then it currently is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin the Chicken God Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I never said there should not be a suggestions system and I certainly would never want to exclude anyone from being part of this system.I have not used the suggestion system myself because I have spent my time trying to understand the economy and trying to figure out ways to make a profit. That is Capitalism and capitalism works because so many people participate and benefit. Systems go through phases. Some people would say our economic system is broken but ultimately that is just someone opinion? And that just brings me back to my original question. Is the suggestion system on backpack.tf a broken system that is damaging to the stability of the market as a whole. Should it be changed? Maybe limiting the number of suggestions over a given period of time? Making the changing of existing prices more difficult then it currently is? I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that the suggestion system is damaging the stability of the market, the market is already as stable as it would be without backpack.tf (if even more so). This applies to the other questions, the claims aren't necessarily backed up with a reason as to why they are being asked, if you could add that in then it would be easier to give each of them a proper response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENDED Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 I never said there should not be a suggestions system and I certainly would never want to exclude anyone from being part of this system.I have not used the suggestion system myself because I have spent my time trying to understand the economy and trying to figure out ways to make a profit. That is Capitalism and capitalism works because so many people participate and benefit. Systems go through phases. Some people would say our economic system is broken but ultimately that is just someone opinion? And that just brings me back to my original question. Is the suggestion system on backpack.tf a broken system that is damaging to the stability of the market as a whole. Should it be changed? Maybe limiting the number of suggestions over a given period of time? Making the changing of existing prices more difficult then it currently is? Change to another form of trading without price guides. Done, everybody happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 You may be a professor at whatever college that we don't care about, but you also fail to understand that TF2 is not real life. TF2's economy does not mimic Real Life Economy. If you do not understand this, then your logic is questionable. And, no. We don't need stricter guidelines for suggestions, because half of those suggestions are for items that appear on the market every 3 years. *cough* Collector's Cosmetics *cough* If you truly want to have a stable stance on telling us how to suggest, then why not actually suggest a non-manipulative price update? And when that suggestion passes, then tell us what you think, rather than making blind assumptions that we purposely run the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted October 29, 2014 Share Posted October 29, 2014 lol if u have a problem with a price, simply, just make a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.