Gent♥ Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Now firstly, may I just highlight that the example brought up in this topic is speculation based upon trends. It has not been proven, and should it be disproven this thread will be closed. However regardless of whether proven or not, an interesting point is raised. With that out of the way... http://backpack.tf/vote/id/542e7518b88d88f0128b4a6c http://backpack.tf/vote/id/542ebb10b88d88f2128b49c2http://backpack.tf/vote/id/542ec30eba8d88970d8b461bhttp://backpack.tf/vote/id/542f8487b98d88f0388b4fc4 And http://backpack.tf/vote/id/542eb7b5b98d8829268b45e2http://backpack.tf/vote/id/542f828ab98d88f8728b47a6http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5430136fb88d88b42b8b4fed So, Giang and Pie have clearly butted heads recently.I know, right, dramaa~, but what's the point I'm making here. That would be this:http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198044850289http://backpack.tf/vote/?creator=76561198092233343&state=0,1,2 Again, this is clearly not for certain, but the definite appearance is Giang is deliberately using suggestions to lower Pie's backpack value. And, of course, there's no rule against this. But nonetheless... Should there be?Suggestions should not be wielded like a weapon. It makes us all look bad, especially when a suggestion comments section gets blown to pieces because of it; http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54316647b98d885d358b4d8f So, thoughts? Should the morals of suggesters be considered? Because, in my opinion at least, this is... dubious. Note I won't be around for a few hours now, so, just, behave yourselves, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaos Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well to be honest, these unusuals needed refreshing anyway And its not like the proof wasnt there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gent♥ Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well to be honest, these unusuals needed refreshing anyway They did. However, the bias of the suggester, arguably, is likely to mean they're priced at an unrepresentatively low value, as seen in the example. The open GBH Conq suggestion is also under fire for being unrepresentatively low. So I would argue that their outdated nature alone is not defence enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Well, if you think about it it's a good method to fuck with someone without oficially fucking with him, + we see they had some 'suggestion wars' aswell.. But making a rule? Not easily possible, as we dont know when someone drops all unusuals in someones bp and when someone just was unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 d0xgiang Don't see why this is a problem since you need actual proof to drop something anyway, it's not price manipulation. Mods would have already reviewed everything before accepting any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobsplosion Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 The only way this could be an offense would be if evidence was forged. If evidence supports a lower range, then it has to be so, even if it hurts one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
λngelღмander Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 If anything, a rivalry between two random people is just more incentive to make more price suggestions. It can only help the market, because if the suggestion is deliberately too low, then it will not pass. The suggestions that pass are suggetions that are correct, or there were oversights, which probably won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scootaloo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Oh no! Not my backpack value! Random people will think I'm a noob while everyone else will dickwave their bp and laugh! My life is ruined!! sob sob /sarcasm d0xgiang Quoted for truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
λngelღмander Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Also, Gent, I get the sense that you're trying to be politically correct about this, but give it a rest. It's fucking obvious that this happens, and it happens all the time, I literally saw a suggestion pass whose first line was "Haha (I dont remember name) lets see your backpack recover from this!" and it was a large drop on a collectible. That's just one example. Had X not been collecting Y, I doubt Z would be dropping it's price. People do it just to spite others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTruth Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Am I the only one outraged by this? This is highly unethical for a respected(or so I thought) member of backpack.tf to use it as a weapon in order to deliberately cause harm to another member. Yeah, yeah, we can all use the justification that "if it can get lowered then it deserved to; hatred/rivalry fuels the unusual market being updated" but it is just so wrong. Giang, I am shocked to see you would stoop to such an extent and yes, I do feel some sort of rule like this should be made. Bp.tf isn't your personal way of exacting "revenge" or whatever, it's a website dedicated to representing the tf2 market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Imo i dont mind this behaviour as long as the proof is there and the suggester isnt cherry picking the proof to make the value of a hat seem lower than how it should be. Logically if there is valid proof to lower someone's hat, it means they wont beable to sell for that high price anyways, the owner is losing nothing but imaginary numbers EDIT: i remember a similar case brought up by grimm before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Delicious Cashew Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 It may be unethical, but if the proof is correct, then the suggestion is valid. Would it make a difference if someone had a friend make the suggestion? No it wouldn't as the proof is still correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twishine Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 To be fair, I made a suggestion for the Strange Heavy Lifter because I did own one, so the incentive was then to make it more agreeable that yes, it is worth x amount. However, I knew that I would have to convince others that it's worth x amount, and so I gather evidence. My point, I personally don't care about whatever drives a person to make a suggestion, so long as the evidence is sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadscope Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 if he has the proof and the ability, he can certainly do that. No opinion should be taken into consideration for suggestions. If someone does a suggestion, clean, without opinion rather with factual evidence, there should be no reason that individual gets it rejected because of someone complaining that if was for other purposes besides updating a price of a inaccurately listed or outdated item.Ex:http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53d59a3b4dd7b80a098b4568 this was done a few months ago, and although the price did get changed recently, it shows what is possibly considered revenge. The dude who had a phos hetmans got a good offer, acted rude towards the person who gave him the really good offer. Then when the price wants to drop because there was a legit sale and the same guy who gave him the good offer says somthing, he does not like that. If there is proof, there is validation. If there is misconduct (revenge, opinion, obvious manipulation) without reasoning, there is rejection.To sum it up, if he has the proof and the bp value to make suggestions, he should be able to do so. For him to have issues with another person, they can settle it outside of bp.tf suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Should there be? Short answer: no. Long answer: yes and no. If the activity is disruptive in some way, yes. But if the evidence provided for a change is good, the actual motivation for posting it should be irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pan Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'll have to admit, I did this to unfortunate random people who had their unusuals in the classifieds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearly Gates Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'll have to admit, I did this to unfortunate random people who had their unusuals in the classifieds. this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Delicious Cashew Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'll have to admit, I did this to unfortunate random people who had their unusuals in the classifieds. Believe it or not, when I was still new to suggesting, I did something similar to at least one person. It was so blatantly obvious as the first line of the suggestion was something like "Take this you lowballer". Jymotion I believe called me out and I removed the line, and I later closed the suggestion. Not something I'm really proud of, but we all do stupid things at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Imo i dont mind this behaviour as long as the proof is there and the suggester isnt cherry picking the proof to make the value of a hat seem lower than how it should be. Logically if there is valid proof to lower someone's hat, it means they wont beable to sell for that high price anyways, the owner is losing nothing but imaginary numbers EDIT: i remember a similar case brought up by grimm before? So, thoughts? Should the morals of suggesters be considered? Because, in my opinion at least, this is... dubious. Adding on to my first comment and adressing a few other things: To be fair for bp.tf to reject valid proof because of "unethical reasons" is essentially placing bias in evaluating suggestions which shouldnt be there. Suggestions should be judged based off the market, comments, proof presented ...etc A better example of a well known ass *ahem* regular suggester who most regulars here detest would be avery who regularly uses bp.tf to his advantage. >using bp.tf's outdated price to sell his stuff and immediately drops it after he sells >been a case where he hoarded items but they didnt end up increasing in price so he bought some from highballers to try change the market and made a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3v1lcl0n3 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 why revenge suggestions are bad ? http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54310e68b98d88267d8b4a4a that's a prime example. if i hadn't intervened,i bet it would get accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowbro_51 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I tried to lower someone's bp, that was the result - http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53d2b2324dd7b86b358b4568 Already had all the proof so, yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auroz Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 (none) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twishine Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 why revenge suggestions are bad ? http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54310e68b98d88267d8b4a4a that's a prime example. if i hadn't intervened,i bet it would get accepted. I don't see anything that would looks like this suggestion was made in spite. Also, your choice of words, that if you had not intervened. While it's technically correct, a better way to phrase it, would be "if I had not provided counter-evidence, it would have probably been accepted." Lastly, try to keep from calling others stubborn. Personal attacks or insults irrelevant to the suggestion are a waste of words and won't do anything beyond antagonize the other party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I did this with a low-tier item, I forgot which one. But he tried saying 'pease raise people offer me 1 key for it' I lowered it , Basically counter-manipulation, it got accepted It's not illegal if the proof is valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowraptor Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I REGRET NOTHING!http://backpack.tf/vote/id/538d0d904dd7b8c04b8b4b0bSeriously though, f the proof is good and supports the new price, whether a fall or a drop, then the price should be updated regardless of motive. I made this beak suggestion as a counter to prevent a rather large drop in the value of my bp and it also ended up that I raised the price of the beak. Call it revenge manipulation if you'd like but sales are sales.http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53df07554dd7b815138b4568http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53dc77e54cd7b8e7478b4568We also do have a lot of power with these suggestions though since we're the ones who effectively control "bible.bs" so we really do need to keep in mind that any time we lower the price of a hat we are in a way robbing someone of their money. A friend of mine has used me as a threat at least a couple times saying I can lower the price of their unusual... which I could and did since the price was outdated and it was easy to find the proof to justify the drop. Don't completely recall what the hats were but I know I've done it and he ended up getting the hat he wanted though not necessarily from the person he threatened. I'm also going to share this delightful little exchange with you that spawned from a suggestion for a DP Hotrod. http://i.imgur.com/CM8Yu5h.png Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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