Have Outpost and Steam Rep gone too far?

[Piotr Nieroda]

... You were banned and Nieroda was selling for you, what does that make outpost mods think? Putting the fact that you are not brokering the hat is just flat out a lie, as long as nieroda waited a day before putting it for sale you would have been fine.

i wasnt selling for him...it was my fucking hat. did you not read the OP?

[DeadZoNeD]

take a moment and think about how stupid what you just said is

 

 

you can trade on

 

backpack.tf

bazaar.tf

outpost

servers (there are literally hundreds)

steam market

You cant trade on any of those except scm if you are marked, (small trade servers dont really count)

[knavesmith]

So much for telling people not to start a flame war.

[Vince]

take a moment and think about how stupid what you just said is

 

 

you can trade on

 

backpack.tf

bazaar.tf

outpost

servers (there are literally hundreds)

steam market

lets say you get marked on steam rep.

backpack.tf - banned

bazaar.tf - banned

outpost - banned

servers (there are literally hundreds) - banned on major ones (pink tacos, ppm, tf2-t)

steam market - can still trade, but steamrep still has say on buying things from marked scammers on the market

[DeadZoNeD]

i wasnt selling for him...it was my fucking hat. did you not read the OP?

Well then, on your trade you didn't need to mention anything about co-owning or any of this nonsense, correct?

[OverduePixels]

-snip-

 

-snip-

 

You two are derailing the topic and basically starting flame wars. 

[Logan.tf]

If you read the original post from Vince you would have seen that they jumped to conclusions without looking at the facts

Alright that's reasonable, it is not right that the admin did not take your proof and just assumed on what was really happening. I am really just talking about after the fact the ban was turned into a week.

 

http://bazaar.tf/trade/1041494

 

^ I get if you were doing this as a joke or not, but I know people wouldn't do it as it is just asking for a ban on Outpost (most likely a small one).

 

EDIT: I don't want to start a flamewar, and if it seems like I am, I will leave this discussion since it is a tad off topic

 

But to add to the topic at hand, SteamRep does need to get it together or just get a new system/site, however getting a new system like SteamRep would mean that they would need to transfer all the bans over to the new site.

[LaughingLollipop]

lets say you get marked on steam rep.

backpack.tf - banned

bazaar.tf - banned

outpost - banned

servers (there are literally hundreds) - banned on major ones (pink tacos, ppm, tf2-t)

steam market - can still trade, but steamrep still has say on buying things from marked scammers on the market

 

 

so now your monopoly complaint is against SR and not outpost

 

yet SR does not provide any service or take payment for anything

 

so you've a non profit organization providing information for free thats not based in the US that is (allegedly) a monopoly

 

BRAVO

[DeadZoNeD]

You two are derailing the topic and basically starting flame wars. 

Yea sorry, im done here. Just find people's lack of patience and then their immediate procedure to not play safe and complaining about the consequences annoying.

[Slocumruls]

With the connections they have with steamrep and the connections steamrep has with other trading communities in tf2, they are almost a monopoly where you are forced to abide by the rules if you don't want to be banned on every site in relation to tf2 trading. 

 

Keep in mind it is illegal to have a monopoly in the United States

A monopoly is not illegal in the U.S. 

A monopoly by default is never illegal.

What is illegal is to actively force out competition or to abuse monopoly position. 

Hell, we hand out government backed monopolies like candy (Patents, Copyrights, Major League Baseball). 

[♛ AlphaOmega ♛]

In reality,  doesnt steamrep only have the power if the people give it to them? If we stop using them, then they dont matter. Same with backpack.tf. 

 

Some proof: i barely remember this, but remember spreadsheet? Ya, we stopped using that and it was gg for them

[Vince]

So much for telling people not to start a flame war.

seems to have calmed down now, lets have an actual discussion

 

 

In reality,  doesnt steamrep only have the power if the people give it to them? If we stop using them, then they dont matter. Same with backpack.tf. 

 

Some proof: i barely remember this, but remember spreadsheet? Ya, we stopped using that and it was gg for them

because there was a better option out there, there isn't something with can phase steamrep out with yet

[Pwndaz!]

In reality,  doesnt steamrep only have the power if the people give it to them? If we stop using them, then they dont matter. Same with backpack.tf. 

 

Some proof: i barely remember this, but remember spreadsheet? Ya, we stopped using that and it was gg for them

They have too many people of high "political" status in the TF2 community for us to "forget" them. Spreadsheet had one manipulating asshat, and that was all. SteamRep is simply too powerful and influential to "forget".

[Ersin]

The problem with steamrep is that if you get banned on steamrep. You get banned from everything. They need to think this through.Banning someone forever because they traded an unu from a scammer for personal use with no second chances is a bit too much.

 

 What they should do is system of banning them for a set amount of time and giving them a tag of their previous actions. Like a prison, you do something wrong you get a set amount of time that you will be sentenced to jail or forever depending on what you do. And will be remembered of what you've done.

 

4 months to one year of ban for trading with scammers for 1-3 times. Depending on the tier of unus. That point resets to 2 after your ban. When you get banned again and outlived your time then it resets to 1. Then you get banned forever for your third and last offense.

 

6 months to 2 years for scamming. Depending on the items.

 

2 months to 2 years for sharking. Depending on the items again.

 

2-3 months for fake C/O.

 

Forever for Fencing.

 

Forever for Paypal scam (Obviously)

[HelenAngel]

FYI- SteamRep doesn't mark for sharking. Also you have to have evidence of at very minimum 3 trades with marked scammers in order to get a tag on SR for trading with scammers, regardless of the tagging community. Most of the time the person has had many more than that by the time they get marked for it.

[KaiZeR Van WiZe™]

The problem with steamrep is that if you get banned on steamrep. You get banned from everything. They need to think this through.Banning someone forever because they traded an unu from a scammer for personal use with no second chances is a bit too much.

 

 What they should do is system of banning them for a set amount of time and giving them a tag of their previous actions. Like a prison, you do something wrong you get a set amount of time that you will be sentenced to jail or forever depending on what you do. 

 

4 months to one year of ban for trading with scammers for 1-3 times. Depending on the tier of unus. That point resets to 2. And then 1 after your second offense, then you get banned forever for third and last offense.

 

6 months to 2 years for scamming. Depending on the items.

 

2 months to 2 years for sharking. Depending on the items again.

 

2-3 months for fake C/O

 

Forever for Fencing.

 

Forever for Paypal scam (Obviously)

Um, could you please specify the difference in nature between scamming and paypal scamming? 

[knavesmith]

Um, could you please specify the difference in nature between scamming and paypal scamming? 

"Scamming" would probably mean methods that don't require PayPal like gift wrap scamming, quick-switch scams, and item misinterpretation.^?

[KaiZeR Van WiZe™]

"Scamming" would probably mean methods that don't require PayPal like gift wrap scamming, quick-switch scams, and item misinterpretation.^?

yeah that's what i thought, but I think you can safely extend the non-pp scam penalty to lifetime. 

[Liddojunior]

FYI- SteamRep doesn't mark for sharking. Also you have to have evidence of at very minimum 3 trades with marked scammers in order to get a tag on SR for trading with scammers, regardless of the tagging community. Most of the time the person has had many more than that by the time they get marked for it.

 

Nice to know.

I had believed it was 1 if the value of the trade was high enough, because if its that much you should have checked.

When it comes to mid tier items. Valued 10 keys + that user would get a warning (or warning + caution), than caution, and finally when they don't listen marked scammer. 

[HelenAngel]

FYI- I have documented these main categories of types of scams:

 

• Impersonation scams
• Fake middleman scams
• Steam Marketplace scams
• Steam wallet scams
• Hijacking/phishing scams
• Quickswitch scams
• Spycrab/contest of skill scams
• Game scams
• Fake reputation scams
• Trading with/fencing for/brokering for/laundering for scammers/hijackers
• False & renamed item scams
• Raffle & giveaway scams
• Money laundering scams
• Blackmail & coercion scams
• Fake offer scams

 

Each one of these requires a minimum of 2-6 pieces of evidence (which are checked for tampering, veracity, etc.) depending on the scam.  A scam report may take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours. 

 

 

@Liddo - The price of the item can indeed have an effect on whether or not the person gets tagged. I was just listing in general. I personally have never marked anyone for trading with scammers unless there were at least 3 documented cases of evidence against that person. Most of the people I have marked for that have been from the Dota 2 community, sadly.

[Teeird]

FYI- I have documented these main categories of types of scams:

 

• Impersonation scams
• Fake middleman scams
• Steam Marketplace scams
• Steam wallet scams
• Hijacking/phishing scams
• Quickswitch scams
• Spycrab/contest of skill scams
• Game scams
• Fake reputation scams
• Trading with/fencing for/brokering for/laundering for scammers/hijackers
• False & renamed item scams
• Raffle & giveaway scams
• Money laundering scams
• Blackmail & coercion scams
• Fake offer scams

 

Each one of these requires a minimum of 2-6 pieces of evidence (which are checked for tampering, veracity, etc.) depending on the scam.  A scam report may take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours. 

 

 

@Liddo - The price of the item can indeed have an effect on whether or not the person gets tagged. I was just listing in general. I personally have never marked anyone for trading with scammers unless there were at least 3 documented cases of evidence against that person. Most of the people I have marked for that have been from the Dota 2 community, sadly.

What's a steam marketplace scam?

[Liddojunior]

What's a steam marketplace scam?

 

I can only think of something along the lines of swapping wallet funds via market place. When you can buy that 200$ crate from a user, than have him give you the item. But, he doesn't and you get scammed. 

 

@Helen. Thanks. Was just interested to see if what I thought about caution/marked when it comes to that topic was somewhat correct. Since, I'm not involved with SR or regular the forums to observe cases to see how it is usually dealt, it was good to hear from you. 

[HelenAngel]

What's a steam marketplace scam?

 

It can come in a few forms:

 

• Falsely claiming to send a person money through the Steam Marketplace (which isn't possible- these became popular right after Steam wallet scams started to die down)
• Laundering stolen/hijacked items through the Steam Marketplace 
• Asking a user to place an item up on the Steam Marketplace for a certain amount (usually more than the item is worth), buying the item, but the account was funded fraudulently (usually through a stolen credit card). The scammer then quickly flips the item before Valve locks the account. 

 

There are probably others but those are the top three that are the most common.  Oh yes, and what Liddo said about not honoring a trade- that could definitely happen too though (thankfully) I haven't seen it yet.

 

 

@Liddo - No problem! You can also always message me on Steam too.

[Slocumruls]

What's a steam marketplace scam?

Possibly like the recent one where someone bought up all the low priced listings of one CSGO gun and then started claiming it was worth the price of the current low listing (average selling price of 1-2$ but the low listing was 100$+). Although we'll have to wait for Helenangel to be sure.

 

Edit: ninja'd.

[Ersin]

FYI- SteamRep doesn't mark for sharking. Also you have to have evidence of at very minimum 3 trades with marked scammers in order to get a tag on SR for trading with scammers, regardless of the tagging community. Most of the time the person has had many more than that by the time they get marked for it.

You guys don't? Well, it is the responsibility for the seller/buyer to know prices. So I get why you don't mark them.

 

Yes. But i'm requesting that it shouldn't be a permaban. All those years of trading and you just lose everything. I know that people should be smart and know your rules. They've been warned even if they haven't known nor have known of what they have already done. What I don't like is that if you do get banned on steamrep. It's all over. No second chances. That's why a long amount of time of ban might suffice. It's how we work out criminals irl. It's dangerous yes. Considering they can easily do it again and its much easier to ban them now and forever so there are no chances of them doing it. But it's quite unfair. Some people are not that bad. A mistake and your out. Even if your the nicest person in the world. A little tweak in the system should be made.