Herty Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi all. I've never made a price suggestion on backpack.tf before, and I'm certainly not known around here for anything. I have, however, been keeping my eye on and voting on prices over the past 3 months or so with fair activity. What I've noticed which kind of irks me is that when people post counterproof to a suggestion to argue that it should be kept lower (let's say someone buying a strange weapon for 2 refined when the suggester believes it should be 2.33) the argument against that counterproof is that the trade was merely a 'quicksell'. Last I checked, quicksellers on outpost were people typically buying less specific items (for example, maybe any vintage weapon or unusual hat) for a greatly reduced price, and mentioned on their trade that they were quickselling and able to respond and make the trade quickly. Could someone please delight me with an agreed definition for 'Quicksell' if it hasn't been decided already? I'd love to get a discussion going here if possible, because I really don't get how if an item is successfully sold at a price 1 scrap lower with speed, that makes it a quicksell. To me, that just suggests there is a strong supply even at the lower price and that the item should be deemed as less valuable. Thanks! ~Herty~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karam Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 something that sells quickly under market price i assume ? but it still counts i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief D Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 something that sells quickly under market price i assume ? but it still counts i guess Shouldn't really count as it's below market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karam Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Shouldn't really count as it's below market price. So how can he lower a price of an item if it doesnt count ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herty Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 something that sells quickly under market price i assume ? but it still counts i guess This is what I mean though. If something sells quickly under market price, surely that just means the price of an item is lower. I understand that 'outliers' exist but when people just disregard all counterproof as a quicksell I think there's something wrong. I think it was suggested somewhere that outliers should only represent 5-10% of the market usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karam Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 but, there is a difference between "quicksellers" and "quickbuyers" or am i mistaken ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herty Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 but, there is a difference between "quicksellers" and "quickbuyers" or am i mistaken ? Yeah, quickbuyers are the other end of the market - Those who offer significantly higher than the regular price of an item and mention this for the purpose of getting a convieniently fast trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karam Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Yeah, quickbuyers are the other end of the market - Those who offer significantly higher than the regular price of an item and mention this for the purpose of getting a convieniently fast trade. I think quickbuyers who "lowball" and offer way lower than market price and still get successful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 If a mass amount of people are trying to sell a certain thing it's not a quicksell, but if few are doing this then it is a quicksale. I think a solid definition must be made to prevent any more inaccuracy on our part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herty Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 If a mass amount of people are trying to sell a certain thing it's not a quicksell, but if few are doing this then it is a quicksale. I think a solid definition must be made to prevent any more inaccuracy on our part. Totally. This is what I'm trying to get out of this topic, so that sales are not disregarded without proper reason. This is notably important for high demand tools/currencies such as tags, tickets, keys, and buds. Items like these always sell quickly, but that doesn't make them a quicksell necessarily. It's just far more likely that someone was online at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Totally. This is what I'm trying to get out of this topic, so that sales are not disregarded without proper reason. This is notably important for high demand tools/currencies such as tags, tickets, keys, and buds. Items like these always sell quickly, but that doesn't make them a quicksell necessarily. It's just far more likely that someone was online at the right time. I meant to add in below market value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 This is what I mean though. If something sells quickly under market price, surely that just means the price of an item is lower. I understand that 'outliers' exist but when people just disregard all counterproof as a quicksell I think there's something wrong. I think it was suggested somewhere that outliers should only represent 5-10% of the market usually. The term quickbuy/sell will be applied to trade offers that are not only below market but often well below and the only function for these trades is when the seller needs fast trade currency because of something he wants right now. The buyer is, generally, always at his pc ready to trade you. The situation of this transaction has nothing to do with the value being traded but the urgency of the seller. The nature of the trade invalidates it as proof. Then there are resellers, such as myself. The buyer offers more to attract sellers as the buyer may not be on all the time or wants to do more volume than margin, also, seller does not have the same urgency but doesn't want to wait to post the item himself. This buyer is also banking on being able to resell the item, for profit, at the market price. Neither is proof but the reseller offer may be a good guide because they are offering just below where they feel the market price is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleverpun Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 A quicksell is a trade that sacrifices potential profit in exchange for sell speed. Beyond that, defining a quicksell has to be done on an item-by-item basis because every item has differing levels of demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herty Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 A quicksell is a trade that sacrifices potential profit in exchange for sell speed. Beyond that, defining a quicksell has to be done on an item-by-item basis because every item has differing levels of demand. Here's an example which I'd be curious to see explained. Yesterday I put a trade on outpost selling a smoking trophy belt for 1 bud pure. On backpack.tf, the price given for it is 22-28 keys, so as a bud is pretty much the midpoint I figured I'd go for that. 12 minutes later I got an add asking to buy it for that. I've never traded unusuals before but I imagine the sell speed is typically pretty slow. Sure, I could have waited a while if I asked for a few more keys on top of the bud, I'm sure, but would this count as a quicksell if it's still in the range? Also, you've got a pretty good definition there but there's also the matter of price preference. I used to sell keys (I've given up now what with the stupid price and all) and I'd charge usually one of the lowest prices on outpost. It was never a matter of speed, however, I have plenty of time, but more preference of not wanting to charge more for an item I do not believe should go up in price. Same goes for other items - Some people just have their own reasons for wanting to charge lower for an item - Does this factor anywhere into the definition of quickselling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleverpun Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Here's an example which I'd be curious to see explained. Yesterday I put a trade on outpost selling a smoking trophy belt for 1 bud pure. On backpack.tf, the price given for it is 22-28 keys, so as a bud is pretty much the midpoint I figured I'd go for that. 12 minutes later I got an add asking to buy it for that. I've never traded unusuals before but I imagine the sell speed is typically pretty slow. Sure, I could have waited a while if I asked for a few more keys on top of the bud, I'm sure, but would this count as a quicksell if it's still in the range? Unusuals selling in a week can be considered a quicksell depending on the hat. Perhaps you just got lucky with a buyer, but it's no secret that the unusual pricing on the site is currently painfully inaccurate due to the USD storage system and the shifting value of currencies lately. Also, you've got a pretty good definition there but there's also the matter of price preference. I used to sell keys (I've given up now what with the stupid price and all) and I'd charge usually one of the lowest prices on outpost. It was never a matter of speed, however, I have plenty of time, but more preference of not wanting to charge more for an item I do not believe should go up in price. Same goes for other items - Some people just have their own reasons for wanting to charge lower for an item - Does this factor anywhere into the definition of quickselling? Intent doesn't factor into quicksells, only sale time vs. profit margin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slocumruls Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I believe this has been covered elsewhere but arguments over what constitutes a quicksell have been raging in Key and Black/White paint suggestions recently (likely other places). It would really help if the mods set out a set of rules over what constitutes quicksell trades in a pinned forum topic. This way the rules could be followed uniformly without the same trades being called quicksell by one user and normal by another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
∞Ramses Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1894-define-quicksell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 These are just some obvious indicators of whether a trade is a quicksell. I would think that it'd be quite easy for these to be understood. Did it sell with the first bump of it being posted: ✔ Did the sale happen below the current price on backpack.tf: ✔ Was it sold to someone who buys large quantities of an item below current price: ✔ Does the person who bought it then re-list the item at a higher value: ✔ If this trade fits one or more of these criteria, then it is more than likely it was a quicksell, and the likelihood increases with the number of criteria it matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 I think quantity should be factored in. If a quickbuyer (person who will resell for profit later) is easily able to buy 50 items for a 1 key and then sell 50 items for 2 keys, how can the item be valued at just 2 keys? Think about what the purpose of this website is. The point is to tell what this item is commonly bought and sold for. Buyers should be informed about what the lowest price they can reasonably buy for and sellers should be informed about what the highest price they can sell for. Calling something a quicksell and not including that in the range is telling buyers it is very difficult to buy for a certain price. But if there are loads of successful buyers at a price within the last week, buyers should be informed that that price is attainable and it should be included in the range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 >Include quicksell in range >Quicksellers lower buying price >Item that would have previously easily gone for newly accepted lowend within a day suddenly starts taking 2 days, 3 days, a week. >Suggestion to drop the price again >Quicksellers lower buying price >Rinse and repeat until an equilibrium is met which is less than likely to happen because of the fervor of suggestions that are made to items worth keys once the ball starts rolling when they experience a single price decrease. There are multiple examples of this: Genuine Merc's Pride Scarf, Strange Festive Grenade Launcher, Strange Gunslinger, Strange Kritzkrieg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief D Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Merged threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQE Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 my 2c - speed of a sale is not sufficient evidence of a quicksell; i think it's pretty obvious why - a quicksell is a price that is below 'market value'; it follows then that you either need a recent price or proof of recent prices via manual price checking, to reference what 'market value' means - a quicksell is basically an outlier, which is why it's not necessarily evidence of a declining price - that being said, a knowledgeable trader can 'quicksell' an item but basically just be ahead of a downward trend. for example, right after robo keys were available, you could 'quicksell' basically any robo hat (that is now 1.33) for say 2 ref or more. my point is, the closer in time someone is to a change in price trend, the less accurate it is to call it a quicksell. i can explain further if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 - speed of a sale is not sufficient evidence of a quicksell; i think it's pretty obvious why -snip- How on Earth would a quicksell not be able to be determined by the speed at which an item sells. The whole reason someone would 'quicksell' an item is to get metal/keys/buds fast rather than wait a longer period of time to try and get more. The word quick literally refers to a relatively fast a amount of time in which something occurs. To rule out the speed at which something happens is just foolish when judging if something is a quicksell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BQE Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 How on Earth would a quicksell not be able to be determined by the speed at which an item sells. The whole reason someone would 'quicksell' an item is to get metal/keys/buds fast rather than wait a longer period of time to try and get more. The word quick literally refers to a relatively fast a amount of time in which something occurs. To rule out the speed at which something happens is just foolish when judging if something is a quicksell All quicksell prices (are supposed to) sell quickly, but not all quickly sold are priced to quicksell. Let me illustrate. Quicksell Priced Trader A: Creates a trade for an unusual, selling it for 0.2 buds less than the lowest price, because he needs the pure asap. Trader B: Notices the trade, had no intention of buying unusuals and doesn't even like the hat, but likes profit. Buys it within a half hour. Sold Quickly Trader A: Creates a trade for an unusual, mid range of the market value, a totally fair price. Trader B: Just so happens to be browsing outpost right around the same time, has been looking for that hat for weeks, and for someone not asking 2 buds/2.5 overpay for a 1.3 bud hat. Finally finds Trader A. Buys it within a half hour. Maybe he paid pure, or maybe he used an unusual in the trade (better hat/worse effect or worse hat/better effect, basically sidegrading). Both sold quickly, but for different reasons. If you don't have an accompanying market price, you'd assume both are quicksells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liddojunior Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 - SNIP - Honestly the only thing that matters is the speed of the sale. Obviously if something sold really quick it could have gotten more. If you could find a buyer really quick then the price obviously is low. Basically anything that is sold to me is at quicksell price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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