There Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Why? Because the admins clearly don't care what people think. If they think the proof is adequate, then they accept it. If they think it's not, then they close it. I don't have a huge problem with this, but why do you illusion players into thinking that the displayed price is their decision when in the end it's not at all. What is this? http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5192149f4bd7b84c7100000d http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5194f7b6ba25362020000006 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5187958b4bd7b87f14000006 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5194f7b6ba25362020000006 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51916d1eba2536397a000001 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517cadbaba2536ad7100000a http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517b0d9a4bd7b86d5900000d http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50cbc90aba2536e27c000017 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5194f7b6ba25362020000006 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5190910eba25365c7a00001d http://backpack.tf/vote/id/519090e8ba2536a23e000005 http://backpack.tf/vote/id/518eaeec4bd7b8114000000a http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5187e6eeba2536a948000001
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Well it is. If the proof points either way, then the mod will side with the votes. And the mods usually provide plenty of reasoning/proof if they go against the voters.
∞Ramses Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 /downvote If it's 90% - 100% with many voters, and without any comment, the mods will less likely search if the suggested price is accurate. I think. Or they really must have no life and look for proof on every single suggestion on their own.
Triforce of Charmanders Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 /downvoteI see all your so called "proof" is from currency suggestion were people think with their BP, not their heads.
There Posted May 18, 2013 Author Posted May 18, 2013 /downvote I see all your do called "proof" is from currency suggestion were people think with their BP, not their heads. What does "I see all your do called "proof" is from currency suggestion were people think with their BP, not their heads." have to do with my suggestion? I know the votes are ridiculous. That's why I'm suggesting we remove them.
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 What does "I see all your do called "proof" is from currency suggestion were people think with their BP, not their heads." have to do with my suggestion? I know the votes are ridiculous. That's why I'm suggesting we remove them. His point was that the only time votes don't really matter is on currency suggestions. On all other suggestions mods do consider the votes. Votes just dont matter on currency suggestions because any suggestion to lower keys would have 99.99999% positive and suggestions to raise key prices are negative.
There Posted May 18, 2013 Author Posted May 18, 2013 His point was that the only time votes don't really matter is on currency suggestions. On all other suggestions mods do consider the votes. Votes just dont matter on currency suggestions because any suggestion to lower keys would have 99.99999% positive and suggestions to raise key prices are negative. Then why is voting still on there if it just illusions players that they're actually reflecting the price of things?
AwesomeMcCoolName Posted May 18, 2013 Posted May 18, 2013 Then why is voting still on there if it just illusions players that they're actually reflecting the price of things? Because its not worth the coding required to exempt currencies, plus why make the site less uniform? The one thing bp.tf is truly lacking is uniformity. Uniformity in length to accept/reject a suggestion, uniformity in the way suggestions are made, uniformity in how bans are handed out, and uniformity on what suggestions get accepted/rejected. Also, once this whole key thing ends (and it will eventually end), Then votes will matter just like on any suggestion. Ultimatley, with groups like SaveTheTf2Key around, votes clearly shouldn't be an end-all thing.
There Posted May 19, 2013 Author Posted May 19, 2013 Because its not worth the coding required to exempt currencies, plus why make the site less uniform? The one thing bp.tf is truly lacking is uniformity. Uniformity in length to accept/reject a suggestion, uniformity in the way suggestions are made, uniformity in how bans are handed out, and uniformity on what suggestions get accepted/rejected. Also, once this whole key thing ends (and it will eventually end), Then votes will matter just like on any suggestion. Ultimatley, with groups like SaveTheTf2Key around, votes clearly shouldn't be an end-all thing. But they should matter. Just look at that bills suggestion. It never should've passed. People voted for it not to pass. But it did anyway. Why.
cleverpun Posted May 19, 2013 Posted May 19, 2013 Votes, proof, and mods are all part of a system of checks and balances. Of course none of them have total control over the other, that is how checks and balances are supposed to work; in tandem. On the vast majority of accepted suggestions the voters, proof, and mods all agree with each other, and it is those suggestions are easiest to defend after the fact. If a moderator is accepting/denying a suggestion against the voters wishes, they are required to post a comment explaining their decision. There is a way to publicly ask moderators to explain their decisions on the bp.tf forums over here. This is one of several reasons why currency suggestions take so much time to moderate; a third of the system can't be relied on, so there is more strain put on the other checks (mods and proof). No one is perfect, but I think the current system works reasonably well.
There Posted May 21, 2013 Author Posted May 21, 2013 Don't give me these lies about moderators "considering" people's votes. They make decisions based on what they think is right. Not other people. My suggestions have gone positive and been closed. The admin response didn't include anything about the 70% of people who voted for it.
cleverpun Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Two of the suggestions you posted were closed by their posters, not admins. Two of the suggestions were competeing and Sir Jon clearly said he accepted one over the other because it was better. The Bill's suggestion was overturned by a later suggestion. Your own links weaken your case; reading the comments it's clear that the admins involved considered the community's reaction into their decisions. The admins are only human, we are capable of making mistakes. The voting is there as a check for for our decisions, just as the proof is a check for the voter decisions. It is clear you are too upset at the moment to fully consider the system and its implications. You are free to gather counterproof, make countersuggestions, or talk to the admins directly or on the forums. The community is a vital part of the site's processes, and suggesting that we remove voting because you are displeased with the outcome of some suggestions is immature. Work within the current system before attempting to change it.
There Posted May 21, 2013 Author Posted May 21, 2013 Two of the suggestions you posted were closed by their posters, not admins. Two of the suggestions were competeing and Sir Jon clearly said he accepted one over the other because it was better. The Bill's suggestion was overturned by a later suggestion. Your own links weaken your case; reading the comments it's clear that the admins involved considered the community's reaction into their decisions. The admins are only human, we are capable of making mistakes. The voting is there as a check for for our decisions, just as the proof is a check for the voter decisions. It is clear you are too upset at the moment to fully consider the system and its implications. You are free to gather counterproof, make countersuggestions, or talk to the admins directly or on the forums. The community is a vital part of the site's processes, and suggesting that we remove voting because you are displeased with the outcome of some suggestions is immature. Work within the current system before attempting to change it. No. No. No. Let's talk about this one: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517d93b9ba25368d60000003 Shenanigans posted some counterproof, said: As I said on the other suggestion, the current range is a bit off. However, there are a few trades above 2 keys flat. The other suggestion has more positive votes, so I'm going to accept that. There was another suggestion at the time. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517d26c64bd7b82244000001 Really? It should be a bit lower? Well, wouldn't it be convenient if another suggestion existed at the same time, with a slightly lower price range? They claim to have listed to votes on this one, I doubt it. Besides, I suggested it down to 2 keys a few days later. Items don't drop that much in two days.
cleverpun Posted May 21, 2013 Posted May 21, 2013 Again, you are only refuting your own case; Shen specifically chose one price over the other because of community support (i.e. votes). The reduction to 2 flat 3 days later had a much better voter percentage than the one before it, and Pudding may or may not have looked over Shen's ruling before they moderated it. I don't see any severe problem here.
There Posted May 22, 2013 Author Posted May 22, 2013 It seems to me like votes was a lame excuse for accepting the one they preferred more. Voting percentages don't matter, most people just vote randomly, and they're very rarely considered. I don't see why they're still on the website.
cleverpun Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 It seems to me like votes was a lame excuse for accepting the one they preferred more. Voting percentages don't matter, most people just vote randomly, and they're very rarely considered. I don't see why they're still on the website. Your blatant bias and stubborn attitude make it hard for me to invest in this debate
ThatOtherChigga #Mack Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Whenever noobs see someone with a blue star, they will immediatly upvote (except on items such as keys, bills, buds, or other currencies.)
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