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Jymotion

Regarding the Welfare of Backpack.tf: ☣Long218☢

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Jymotion

Let me begin by saying this thread is not the result of any significant recent actions regarding discussion or action involving 'Long'.  This will serve as a place to discuss someone who has become a polarizing figure of backpack.tf.  I will be sending Long a personal message to alert him of this thread.  edit: welp, should have expected that, I suppose.

 

What is known (list can be edited, taking into account future posts):

  • ☣Long218☢ is the all-time leading contributor to backpack.tf at the time of this post with over 21k points and 690 accepted suggestions.
  • ☣Long218☢ is currently under a SteamRep Caution for "knowingly buying a highjacked unusual."
  • ☣Long218☢ is currently trade restricted/banned[1] [2for allegedly knowingly purchasing fraudulently purchased keys  [1 s] [3].
  • ☣Long218☢ has publicly criticized the actions of the moderating team of the site [1 s][2 s].
  • ☣Long218☢ has made more than a dozen suggestions to change the price of keys.
    • In these suggestions, Long has been warned multiple times for inappropriate and abusive comments. (can dig for proof if really necessary).
    • Long has shown signs of either apathy or embracing the negative attention he has received [1 s]
  • ​☣Long218☢ has been banned from posting in the forums [1 s].  The reason was reportedly for inappropriate language[1], though I can't personally confirm this is the reason.
  • It seems that ☣Long218☢ is currently being followed/monitored in the forums [1 s].
  • ☣Long218☢ is permanently banned from SOP[1 s]
  • ☣Long218☢, currently "☣got a thing for key♫ #greed", has full access to all standard user privileges of the site [1 s].
  • ☣Long218☢ was banned from backpack.tf for a troll suggestion in December of 2012[1 sand has been banned from making key suggestions in the past.

 

Purpose of this thread: Without stating personal opinions about Long's personality, etc., share your opinion on whether or not Long's behavior has been detrimental to the well-being of the site and whether or not you feel any authoritative action is necessary.

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@@@@@@

it sure did get a lot of people thinking that this site is manipulating the prices 

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Baloo

He's trade restricted. He doesn't like it being said that he's trade banned because nowhere on his Steam profile does it list him as being trade banned.

 

You also left out the two times (that I know of) that he was banned from backpack.tf. The first was because Long used an alternate account to suggest buds to be .22-.44 refined while supposedly under the influence of alcohol. The second was because of his rude comments towards others on key suggestions.

 

If you would like the source for the old ban, then I'm fairly sure the ban appeal is still there on the old forums in the Meet the Stats steam group.

 

He was also banned 5 times from outpost due to vulgar language before receiving a permanent ban due to being trade restricted. He has been banned from SourceOP following the incident of the screenshot that circulated where he told andy he apparently knew that he was buying carded keys and greatly enjoyed the profit.

 

That status with Long calling himself a lonely person is because at the same time we were talking in chat where he called a nigga (which doesn't matter because its supposed to be unsupervised chat) I was telling him that Onion Knight had added me asking for evidence to possibly get Long marked with a scammer tag on Steamrep. I was private chatting with him telling him to watch his act.

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Hand slapper

The people who complain about keys costing more refined every week are going to want a scapegoat, and it's pretty obvious that Long would be a top candidate to fill that role. After all, when he makes a suggestion everyone voting can see that he owns hundreds of keys, plus he has shown a tenacity to make small increases on a fairly regularly basis and key increases almost always have low approval (do a large chunk of voters think trading is based solely on democratically elected prices on backpack.tf? I hope it's alt accounts because some of those increases were no-brainers based on supporting links). Overall I think he has achieved a level of infamy because of this, and being the top contributor for such a "Long" time makes him a site symbol.

There are going to be people who think Long represents backpack.tf and will slander backpack.tf because it gives them a outlet to vent their anger. If people stop using the site for those reasons then it's their loss, guess they'll have to use another site for pricing or make trades based on their gut feelings. I don't think authoritative action is needed so "Long" as he follows the site rules like everyone else has to.

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JAG Onion Knight

Yes, I added Baloo to see if there was additional evidence and he provided me with several old screenshots.

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Quote+

Long embraces his image as a villain to the community, and usually uses this identity to easily bend rules. I feel like Moderators are scared to make a move on him.

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Iris★

I think he should get temp banned if he causes any more mischief in the future. He should have been temp banned already, IMO.

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Puddilicious

I think Long means well, but he's just so damn obnoxious.

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jjjon123

Im going to take the route of outpost, he already has so many bans/infractions, any small slip up and hes getting week minimum, another and its permanent. But as of now, he is not really doing anything wrong, as "the unknown" has said, he embraces his image of a villain.

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Teeird

Long embraces his image as a villain to the community, and usually uses this identity to easily bend rules. I feel like Moderators are scared to make a move on him.

Long? A villain? Is the trading world a mid 90s saturday cartoon?

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Hatch Rawer Beryl

Purpose of this thread: Without stating personal opinions about Long's personality, etc., share your opinion on whether or not Long's behavior has been detrimental to the well-being of the site and whether or not you feel any authoritative action is necessary.

 

No, it isn't detrimental to the site. Thousands of users log on everyday. Most use the site quietly without complaint, and don't really care what suspicious activities the top contributors are up to. Even the ones who hate backpack.tf still use it, as the only alternative is the spreadsheet. If they don't use some kind of pricing guide, they would have to do research for every item, or else get sharked out of their items.

 

As for Long, he hasn't technically done anything wrong on the website as of late. He's already been punished for his past offenses. You can't just ban someone because you don't like him.

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Jymotion

No, it isn't detrimental to the site. Thousands of users log on everyday. Most use the site quietly without complaint, and don't really care what suspicious activities the top contributors are up to. Even the ones who hate backpack.tf still use it, as the only alternative is the spreadsheet. If they don't use some kind of pricing guide, they would have to do research for every item, or else get sharked out of their items.

 

I disagree with the attitude that nothing should be done to improve the site because there currently isn't much competition.  People questioning a guide's authenticity is what leads to new sites popping up.  Swag [inc.] created the trade.tf automated spreadsheet as a direct response to his lack of faith in the spreadsheet here.  I disagree with him about this site in some regards, and his site is still new enough that it is not a threat, but I don't think we should dismiss the possibility of action just because people keep coming to the site anyway.

 

 

As for Long, he hasn't technically done anything wrong on the website as of late. He's already been punished for his past offenses. You can't just ban someone because you don't like him.

 

I made the effort to say that this thread is not the result of any recent action and requested to keep personal opinions of his personality out of it.  I tried to keep it as objective as possible.  It could be argued that he has not received much of a punishment on this site considering the actions other sites have taken against him.

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Santa Heavy

Long has been temp-banned far to many times. Excuse my French here but the mods have to grow some buals and perm-ban him if he slips up one more time. He has pushed himself too far into the limelight. Long needs a timeout to mature.

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Liddojunior

Guys its the internet. He doesn't need to mature for the internet. 

 

I think people don't like him and the site shouldn't try to please those users because those users tend to not be very smart and all they want are cheap keys.

 

 He should be punished for offensive comments, like every other user should be. 

 

But to keep him off the site because he makes bp.tf look like a manipulative site is kind of pointless. There will be another guy who is like long to replace him as the user who manipulates keys. 

 

I can agree to a key suggestion ban on him. 

 

 

And bp.tf threads on SPUF have stopped so i feel like people are getting off the keys manipulated by long and bp.tf bagwagon. 

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Nartius

"In these suggestions, Long has been warned multiple times for inappropriate and abusive comments."

 

I can't really blame him for that, considering the amount of shit people give him on his suggestions. not everyone can be a saint.

 

 

as in general, i don't think who he is matters in regards to this site at all, what matters is what the does in reference to suggestions, and what the does there, he does good as far as i have seen it.

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Jymotion

"In these suggestions, Long has been warned multiple times for inappropriate and abusive comments."

 

I can't really blame him for that, considering the amount of shit people give him on his suggestions. not everyone can be a saint.

 

The issue, as I see it, is that he provokes and eggs on such comments by doing things like starting his key suggestions with insults to "poor people"

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Pyrocide

I believe he deserves to be perma-banned and IP banned from the site as we all know he has alts.

 

Too many times he has crossed the line with either his insulting comments, his instigating flame wars, bad mouthing the mods etc. 

 

Any other user did that, they would be banned, but, IMO not because his profile isn't marked, because of his past contribution to the backpack.tf community he is getting a pass, which is total BS. Regardless of what his PAST contributions are, what should be looked at is his current and much more fervent attitude of douchebaggery.

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Distinctively Vincent

I'd like to emphasize that Long isn't getting special treatment for any reason. The mods are just, in general, very lenient. You typically have to either troll the site, be overtly rude repeatedly to another user, or say something blatantly offensive to earn a ban. Long has a bad attitude, but he rarely explcitly breaks the rules. The times he has in the past HAVE typically earned him bans.

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Baloo

I'd like to emphasize that Long isn't getting special treatment for any reason. The mods are just, in general, very lenient. You typically have to either troll the site, be overtly rude repeatedly to another user, or say something blatantly offensive to earn a ban. Long has a bad attitude, but he rarely explcitly breaks the rules. The times he has in the past HAVE typically earned him bans.

Yes, I believe the mods, such as Vincent, are doing just fine at handling this situation. backpack.tf is not run by mob rule and so if Long truly does mess up again, then he will be dealt with properly I am sure of. That does not mean I believe the next mess up will result in a perma-ban, but I do believe appropriate measures will be taken just as they would with any other individual.

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Pyrocide

I'd like to emphasize that Long isn't getting special treatment for any reason. The mods are just, in general, very lenient. You typically have to either troll the site, be overtly rude repeatedly to another user, or say something blatantly offensive to earn a ban. Long has a bad attitude, but he rarely explcitly breaks the rules. The times he has in the past HAVE typically earned him bans.

I'm sorry but calling refined "useless trash of poor people" didn't earn him a ban, only having his key suggestion closed and a half-assed warning. If that isn't "blatantly offensive", then there are some things other than long that need to be looked at.

 

In general I would agree with baloo that mods do what is necessary for the site to maintain a decent community. However, the recent warning string Clever has gone on is doing nothing but earning him disrespect warnings aren't going to do jack-crap to the spam on key suggestions. 

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Distinctively Vincent

I'm sorry but calling refined "useless trash of poor people" didn't earn him a ban, only having his key suggestion closed and a half-assed warning. If that isn't "blatantly offensive", then there are some things other than long that need to be looked at.

 

It wasn't directed at anyone specifically and, either way, you neglect to mention that it earned him a ban from key suggestions.

 

If you want to point out an incident where he got away with only his key suggestion closed and a half-assed warning, you can point to his 'key manipulator' stunt, which was blatant trolling. It was near the beginning of him becoming the community's scapegoat and I genuinely sympathized with how everyone was suddenly constantly attacking and provoking him. In hindsight, that was no excuse and I should have taken harder action.

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Baloo

-snip-

 

If you want to point out an incident where he got away with only his key suggestion closed and a half-assed warning, you can point to his 'key manipulator' stunt, which was blatant trolling. It was near the beginning of him becoming the community's scapegoat and I genuinely sympathized with how everyone was suddenly constantly attacking and provoking him. In hindsight, that was no excuse and I should have taken harder action.

Not sure your memory's in check there or maybe he changed his name to 'key manipulator' more than once, but that definitely wasn't at the start of people making him a scapegoat. That was a good month or two into it when he changed his name.

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Distinctively Vincent

It's entirely possible I'm misremembering the order of events, or perhaps I just didn't pay enough attention to key suggestions prior to that to notice much of it so it seemed to me near the beginning at the time. I just recall that sympathy due to the constant attacks and provocations in recent suggestions had been my reason for only closing/warning and not banning in that situation.

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Pyrocide

It wasn't directed at anyone specifically and, either way, you neglect to mention that it earned him a ban from key suggestions.

 

If you want to point out an incident where he got away with only his key suggestion closed and a half-assed warning, you can point to his 'key manipulator' stunt, which was blatant trolling. It was near the beginning of him becoming the community's scapegoat and I genuinely sympathized with how everyone was suddenly constantly attacking and provoking him. In hindsight, that was no excuse and I should have taken harder action.

 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161ebca4bd7b8a90c00000e This is the key suggestion you closed, and didn't actually BAN him. He was verbally warned (<- half ass warning that I was referring to) to not make key suggestions. Granted he did go ahead and push the line and got himself a true ban. Sure, a one time offense of being a jackass in the key suggestions, what you did was perfectly fine. However, weeks of the same shit over and over constantly stirring rage and all you did was close his suggestion and verbally warn him not to do it again (like a kid who got into the candy jar) and he still came back with, from what i understand "approval" from another mod to do so and nothing was done. 

 

Also, let me make sure I got this, you are saying that because his statement about "poor people" wasn't directed at anyone specific it was not warranting of a ban (i am just in awe that you did not consider that a bannable offense of being blatantly disrespectful and offensive to so many). If that is true, then I can just go on a say that all people that believe in god are just mindless drones clinging to a bedtime story that is the best selling zombie novel ever written and just be fine, since, you know, its not directed at anyone specific?

 

Baloo may or may not be right, i haven't cared enough to keep track of the events of how they came about especially with the name changes. 

 

This is the only instance I could find of him calling himself the manipulator and was warned by Chief. (again very lenient on something that needed WAY more attention, IMO) 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51485b244bd7b8177000000b from time stamps it looks like a month before the verbal warning.

 

And then there is this: 

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/748-notice-how-only-poor-people/

 

Not sure if this is what resulted in his forum ban.

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Distinctively Vincent

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161ebca4bd7b8a90c00000e This is the key suggestion you closed, and didn't actually BAN him. He was verbally warned (<- half ass warning that I was referring to) to not make key suggestions. Granted he did go ahead and push the line and got himself a true ban. Sure, a one time offense of being a jackass in the key suggestions, what you did was perfectly fine. However, weeks of the same shit over and over constantly stirring rage and all you did was close his suggestion and verbally warn him not to do it again (like a kid who got into the candy jar) and he still came back with, from what i understand "approval" from another mod to do so and nothing was done.

 

No, I didn't fully ban him, and I wouldn't have fully banned anyone else for making a similar comment either. In the hands of anyone else and regarding any other item, it would have gotten litle more than a handful of dislikes, a warning, and otherwise ignored and forgotten. A ban from key suggestion was sufficient for the combination of the comment made and the history of issues. And if you want to call it a half assed warning even when he did get a proper ban for ignoring the warning, well, that's your perogative.

 

And for the record, he came back with approval from the same mod who started the ban in the first place eg. me.

 

 

Also, let me make sure I got this, you are saying that because his statement about "poor people" wasn't directed at anyone specific it was not warranting of a ban (i am just in awe that you did not consider that a bannable offense of being blatantly disrespectful and offensive to so many). If that is true, then I can just go on a say that all people that believe in god are just mindless drones clinging to a bedtime story that is the best selling zombie novel ever written and just be fine, since, you know, its not directed at anyone specific?

 

Let's not get involved in an internet comparisons argument. If you can't see the difference between an idiotic snide comment about a trading item used by everyone who trades- yes, even Long- and an attack on a religion, there's already no point in arguing further on the matter.

 

 

This is the only instance I could find of him calling himself the manipulator and was warned by Chief. (again very lenient on something that needed WAY more attention, IMO) 

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51485b244bd7b8177000000b from time stamps it looks like a month before the verbal warning.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what I was talking about, and what I am freely admitting to having previously being too lenient due to misguided sympathy. You can see my post at the bottom of the suggestion.

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