ABORTION

[Pyrocide]

 

Since there isn't one so far. Might as well make one.

 

Pro-Choice

Pregnant women (pre-mothers) have the right to abort an unborn alien fetus if they so choose whenever and where ever they want.

Men should not have any dictating authority on this one. Husband/father is a different story.

Government should not have a say AT ALL.

Religion can go fuck itself on this one.

Once a fetus has developed lungs and is able to be birthed (either through natural or c-section) and survive outside the womb then I can call it human, until then its a fetus.

[✔ P I X E L A T E D ✔]

I think the laws fine atm.

[@@@@@@]

if you're "accidently" pregnant or feel that you're not responsible enough, abortion is the right thing for you. 

 

too bad your mother didn't feel it was the right thing :^) 

 

[Jymotion]

the real argument (as I understand it) is, when does life begin?

 

many who are pro-life believe it begins with inception conception.  under this belief, abortion is murder, ending another life.

many who are pro-choice believe there is a grey area.  under this belief, abortion is an extension of birth control.

 

there is no middle ground.

 

Pregnant women (pre-mothers) have the right to abort an unborn alien fetus if they so choose whenever and where ever they want.

 

Should this freedom of what to do with one's own body extend to suicide?  drug use?

[The Killjoy]

http://puu.sh/2Mg9P.png

[Pyrocide]

-snip-

 

Should this freedom of what to do with one's own body extend to suicide?  drug use?

Absolutely. If you feel the need to off yourself, then by all means there's plenty of knives at Walmart for ya to do it with. Remember across the vein for attention; with the vein for Jesus.

 

The same applies for drug use. If you're stupid enough to get addicted to drugs and don't want help in resolving said addictions continue to do so, so long as you dont endanger anyone else while doing it. Darwinism will ALWAYS win.

 

Edit: i believe in the pro-life argument, its CONception, not INception. Although, both may apply i suppose.

[Chief D]

Absolutely. If you feel the need to off yourself, then by all means there's plenty of knives at Walmart for ya to do it with. Remember across the vein for attention; with the vein for Jesus.

 

The same applies for drug use. If you're stupid enough to get addicted to drugs and don't want help in resolving said addictions continue to do so, so long as you dont endanger anyone else while doing it. Darwinism will ALWAYS win.

 

Edit: i believe in the pro-life argument, its CONception, not INception. Although, both may apply i suppose.

I agree. I mean, I've talked some people out of suicide because I obviously don't want them to die. However, I think they can send you to jail for attempting suicide which is stupid. About drugs, that's a complicated subject. 

 

Drugs move the world. They destroy people (not by addiction but by illegal commercialism), families, and the environment itself. Most of those should be eradicated or produced on certified labs. we all know that won't happen, though. 

[F CHARLIE]

Suicide shouldn't be criminalized but the person should be hospitalized for mental wellbeing. The state of suicidal tendancy is temporary snd most that attempt but survive regret the choice.

 

I agree. I mean, I've talked some people out of suicide because I obviously don't want them to die. However, I think they can send you to jail for attempting suicide which is stupid. About drugs, that's a complicated subject. 

 

Drugs move the world. They destroy people (not by addiction but by illegal commercialism), families, and the environment itself. Most of those should be eradicated or produced on certified labs. we all know that won't happen, though. 

I agree about legalizing many drugs.

 

My view on abortion is that once u have a fetus u have a human life. Conception. A platypus is not coming out. U hav to understand, that future human wants to live but has no voice.

 

I do say that the groups that are prolife should do more to support young pregnant women to help prevent the abortion. They should put their money where thier belief is.

[Chief D]

In my country, at least, abortions still happen. The fact that it's illegal makes the poorest women abort in shitty places with shitty doctors, risking their lives. If you have money, you can perform an abortion under the table on good conditions, although it's still illegal. Most of the poor teens get pregnant because they lack sexual education I believe. 

[F CHARLIE]

In my country, at least, abortions still happen. The fact that it's illegal makes the poorest women abort in shitty places with shitty doctors, risking their lives. If you have money, you can perform an abortion under the table on good conditions, although it's still illegal. Most of the poor teens get pregnant because they lack sexual education I believe. 

That is horrible. Many latin american coutries don't allow abortions or birth control. Studies have shown that in these countries there is a huge change in women's income and soc econ status when u give them more power over when and how to have children. A woman may not be allowed to have an abortion ecen to save her life in many cases.

[Santa Heavy]

Speaking of which anyone heard about that doctor in philly? :/

[lukecandy]

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[F CHARLIE]

Speaking of which anyone heard about that doctor in philly? :/

 

Yes, nurses report of screaming babies is soul shatering.  I have a ten month old.

[Pyrocide]

Dunno about the Philly doc. Some of the charges and accusations seem too horrible for a person to commit. Scissors to cut the spine, inducing labor at 6mt? Even if any of that were true, his name is Kermit. Comon how can you prosecute a guy named Kermit?

 

Still, doesn't change my views on it. Pro-choice forever and always. 

[F CHARLIE]

Dunno about the Philly doc. Some of the charges and accusations seem too horrible for a person to commit. Scissors to cut the spine, inducing labor at 6mt? Even if any of that were true, his name is Kermit. Comon how can you prosecute a guy named Kermit?

 

Still, doesn't change my views on it. Pro-choice forever and always. 

These were babies. They could breath, as you said, they were human. These women often regret doing this the rest of thier lives. What I want I'd better support for these girls so these babies can be adopted. I agree, these girls need options and not hoplessnss. We condemn these girls but should offer a hand. Our culture promotes love, sex and procreation. What is to be expected.

[Pyrocide]

I'm not arguing that what he is accused of doing is deplorable. Don't get me wrong, as a father myself of a 5 month old I simply cannot fathom any human being that can willingly do something so horrible as plunging a pair of scissors into the back of the neck of a living breathing newborn child. 

 

I am saying, however, that the option should be given to abort a fetus when needed/wanted by the woman carrying said fetus and no one else. However, if said pre-mother is a hooker or whore or just some trash that needed a fix, euthanasia or at the very least indefinite sterilization is needed.

 

Past a certain point abortion IS in fact murder. However, before that PNR, its abortion of an unwanted fetus or 2 cells.

 

How do you feel about the morning after pill? It prevent the sperm and egg from attaching to the uterine wall is that abortion or contraceptive? 

[Hatch Rawer Beryl]

This guy pretty much sums up my views on the subject: 

[Iris★]

ALWAYS pro choice. A fetus is not a human, nor is it alive.

[Hatch Rawer Beryl]

 A fetus is not a human, nor is it alive.

 

Please explain?

[Hatch Rawer Beryl]

ALWAYS pro choice. A fetus is not a human, nor is it alive.

 

Okay, you haven't explained, and it's been two days. Allow me. I'll tackle your second claim first. "nor it is alive."

 

At 9-16 weeks, the fetus' heart, hands, feet, brain and other organs are present. Also, at this point in development, uncontrolled movements and twitches occur. Yes, the fetus moves. They are most definitely alive.

At 37-40 weeks, the fetus is considered full-term. That means the fetus is considered fully developed for life outside the uterus. So basically... What you're telling me... If something is inside a uterus, it's not alive? You've got some flawed logic there pal.

 

As for your first claim...... Seriously? A fetus isn't human? Let's say the baby is about to be born. You're telling me, that the baby is only human after it is outside the uterus? By your logic, everything inside a uterus is dead and not human.

 

 

    Now, for some ranting. I completely agree with choices. 100%. A woman has many choices before resorting to murder. She can choose not to have sex. She can choose to use birth control. She can choose to have sex only if she is willing/able to take care of the baby. Heck, she could just put the baby in an orphanage. Why resort to murder? 

    Let's think logically for a moment. We've all been fetuses at one point. Let's say that you're the result of an accident. And your mother is considering abortion. If you were born, you would have to go through many hardships and/or have to stay in an orphanage hoping to be adopted. Would you prefer death, or poverty? Death, or hardship? That's what every single aborted human being never got the chance to say. They can't defend themselves. They must be defended by others.

    And one more thing. I have something to say to the "Pro-lifers except in cases of rape" crowd. Yes, it is terrible what happened. But if the woman got pregnant, it is not the baby's fault. That is still a human being. Would you kill someone because he came into being by unfortunate circumstances? Everything I said above still applies. Would you rather be the product of a terrible crime, or dead? Think about it.

 

As a former fetus, I am Pro-Life. No exceptions.

[Man of Ham]

Pro-Choice

Pregnant women (pre-mothers) have the right to abort an unborn alien fetus if they so choose whenever and where ever they want.

Men should not have any dictating authority on this one. Husband/father is a different story.

Government should not have a say AT ALL.

Religion can go fuck itself on this one.

Once a fetus has developed lungs and is able to be birthed (either through natural or c-section) and survive outside the womb then I can call it human, until then its a fetus.

 

 

ALWAYS pro choice. A fetus is not a human, nor is it alive.

 

Response to any pro-choice argument:

The only ways to disprove my argument, or any argument for that matter, is to show that I have an error in my induction (facts and observations) or to show that there is an error in my deduction (reasoning) through showing that I have made a logical fallacy.

Thus I offer a simple syllogism:

A: It is wrong and should be illegal to kill an innocent living human being that is a person.

B: The unborn, from the point of fertilization, are innocent living human beings that are persons.

C: Therefore, it is wrong and should be illegal to kill the unborn from the point of fertilization.

I think we all agree with statement A, but it obviously should be illegal to kill an innocent living human being that is a person because of our basic human rights.

Anyway, on to statement B

1. Innocent: The unborn are obviously innocent; they have not intentionally committed any actions, just like a new born baby does not intentionally commit any actions. Even if the unborn's presence endangers the woman, for example, through an ectopic pregnancy, it did not intend to and is only an innocent aggressor.

http://prolifephilosophy.blogspot.com/2012/07/response-to-logical-argument-for.html

2. Living organism: The unborn is undeniably living. A standard biology text book will list the characteristics of life. Those include genetic information, growth and development, environmental interaction, metabolism, and reproduction. The unborn has all those characteristics and is, thus, a living organism. First, the unborn have DNA, 23 chromosomes from each parent and 46 in all, making them chemically unique from the point of conception. Secondly, the unborn is also growing and developing; once the egg is fertilized, it starts taking in nutrients, causing it to grow and divide rapidly. Thirdly, from the point of ferilization, the unborn interacts with the environment as it moves though the fallopian tubes implants into the uterus, and continues to move and interact as it develops in the amniotic sac. Fourthly, the unborn has a metabolism from conception. Fifthly, the unborn has cell reproduction and the ability to twin, both forms of reproduction. The following link describes a living organism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organism

Link on the unborn's development:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_development

3. Human being: The unborn is obviously human because it has 46 chromosomes like all humans and by the law of biogenesis, only human organisms can come from human organisms.

Link to the law of biogenesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_biogenesis

4. Person: Finally, the unborn is a person. It has been argued that since the unborn do not have characteristics like consciousness, self-awareness, memory, and other traits, that it is not a person. However, this is false since these are acquired traits. If it was true that these traits determine personhood, any human not having these traits would no longer be a person. That means that if a person is asleep, or unconscious in any other way, he or she is no longer a person. This also applies to self-awareness since a person can only be self-aware while they are conscious. Finally, memory does not determine personhood because new born babies do not have memories and someone's memory can be lost through injuries or diseases. This is why inherent capacity is needed to determine personhood, not present capacity. Thus it follows that the unborn has inherent capacity for those characteristics since it is a member of the human species and is thus a person. For a more detailed explanation of this, refer to this link:

http://prolifephilosophy.blogspot.com/2012/07/response-to-logical-argument-for.html

Therefore, it can be concluded that the unborn are living human beings that are persons and killing them is wrong and should be illegal. Any objections to this claim that are not either claiming that I have made a logical fallacy or have used incorrect evidence, are purely emotional or volitional and do not disprove anything that I have shown.

[ThatOtherChigga #Mack]

I actually did a paper on this for a Mock Congress assignment (we had to pick a critical issue and write about it). Pro-choice.

[Man of Ham]

I actually did a paper on this for a Mock Congress assignment (we had to pick a critical issue and write about it). Pro-choice.

why? huehuehue

[Professional Map Painter]

Ireland's pro-life stance is the cause of many deaths, such as: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

[Pyrocide]

-snip-

Kudos for the well thought out and well spoken logical assessment of the argument of when life begins. 

 

Stick with me on the following

 

If your sister or mother or wife/gf or some female family member was raped and impregnated. 6 weeks go by and she has missed her last cycle without the possibility that it is another man's sperm IE she hadn't had sex with any one up to and after that horrific event. Went to her OB/GYN and it was confirmed that she would not survive the pregnancy to birth (nor would the fetus) and got the same results from a second opinion and even a third. You would still fight that abortion is wrong and never an answer or choice, to save said family member, when it has been confirmed with logical and scientific proof the fetus nor the now pregnant woman would survive to term. You would let her die as a result of you fighting it.

 

Also typing up a response to bringing cell biology into the mix. Sorry for the delay, coffee hasnt sunk in yet.